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Ever since I completely massacred a pair of tau players by with two burna bommers right after our codex dropped, people have not been leaving their characters in positions where I can assassinate them with planes against me.

Unsurprising

Myself I expect that stratagem to go poof in codex. But frankly if it buffs rest of the army I'm fine with that. I'm not fan of such crutch things which are rather uninteractive one at that.

To clarify, this was before 'eadbut existed. I just bombed a commanders' drones and emptied the shootas and skorcha missiles into them, killing both. They then tried to get revenge on the bommers, shooting down one of them which then exploded for 3 MW on basically their entire army. I think I had them tabled by the bottom of T2.

To be fair, i'd rather an autoexplode strat over 'eadbutt.

'Eadbutt is gimicky and you have to actively kill your own unit for it. If it werent for the flat3 from burnabomma nobody would like it.

Lot of armies have a vehicle auto explode strat now, and we dont. Wagons/nauts exploding tend to cause a ton of damage, i'd like to force that rather than hope it happens.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
To be fair, i'd rather an autoexplode strat over 'eadbutt.

'Eadbutt is gimicky and you have to actively kill your own unit for it. If it werent for the flat3 from burnabomma nobody would like it.

Lot of armies have a vehicle auto explode strat now, and we dont. Wagons/nauts exploding tend to cause a ton of damage, i'd like to force that rather than hope it happens.

Yeah, I've always found it bizarre that for a race that gives no hoots about safety and for a faction that literally had a "don't press dat" rule for looted wagons, that we somehow don't have an auto-explode strat baseline for our vehicles.

I agree. I honestly think Burna Bomber gimmick is going to

a) get nerfed if enough people complain

and

b) is playable around.

Hell, with the new apothecary, our favourite way of busting up SM castles is useless anyway. It just heals it up, and if you have 2, the other 1 dies even if you go first.

I'd rather spend the 310 points on 3 megatrakks (I'll scrounge 20 points) or 3 dragsters.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
To be fair, i'd rather an autoexplode strat over 'eadbutt.

'Eadbutt is gimicky and you have to actively kill your own unit for it. If it werent for the flat3 from burnabomma nobody would like it.

Lot of armies have a vehicle auto explode strat now, and we dont. Wagons/nauts exploding tend to cause a ton of damage, i'd like to force that rather than hope it happens.

Yeah, I've always found it bizarre that for a race that gives no hoots about safety and for a faction that literally had a "don't press dat" rule for looted wagons, that we somehow don't have an auto-explode strat baseline for our vehicles.

Its even weirder than that.

Admech are basically machine cultists, yet theyre fine forcibly exploding their vehicles.
Most space marine vehicles are ancient relics that are irreplaceable, explode automatically.

Orks? Pile of scrap given wheels and some kind of propulsion that is just as likely to function fine as it is just simply fall apart before it reaches the enemy. Nope, no explode most of the time.

It would add such a massively bigger threat to our wagons. If they reach your front lines, better be careful about when you blow them up else they do D6 mortals to you.

After I assembled 4 warkoptas they are gone...
It is cool that I can still use them as legends in my club.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
To be fair, i'd rather an autoexplode strat over 'eadbutt.

'Eadbutt is gimicky and you have to actively kill your own unit for it. If it werent for the flat3 from burnabomma nobody would like it.

Lot of armies have a vehicle auto explode strat now, and we dont. Wagons/nauts exploding tend to cause a ton of damage, i'd like to force that rather than hope it happens.

Yeah, I've always found it bizarre that for a race that gives no hoots about safety and for a faction that literally had a "don't press dat" rule for looted wagons, that we somehow don't have an auto-explode strat baseline for our vehicles.

Its even weirder than that.

Admech are basically machine cultists, yet theyre fine forcibly exploding their vehicles.
Most space marine vehicles are ancient relics that are irreplaceable, explode automatically.

Orks? Pile of scrap given wheels and some kind of propulsion that is just as likely to function fine as it is just simply fall apart before it reaches the enemy. Nope, no explode most of the time.

It would add such a massively bigger threat to our wagons. If they reach your front lines, better be careful about when you blow them up else they do D6 mortals to you.

Exactly, being able to punish your opponent for taking out a key vehicle near an objective would be huge and incentivize risks in a battlewagon rush style list. Battlewagons haven't seen much serious play since the end of 8th anyways, it'd be nice to have a functional mechanized list that wasn't just buggies with a forktress and a gunwagon with Da Boomer.

Im not sure i like any faction at all being able to force explode vehicles, as it makes being a melee oriented faction pretty stupid. Ranged units have the opportunity to take them out before they get close, melee cant. why must melee heavy factions have to be punished for destroying a vehicle?

I get the D6 roll, it makes sense, and is balanced, but that its possible to turn all your vehicles in to nukes at will just seem stupid.

a friend of mine plays death guard and im playing Goff. I know he makes them explode, but i also dont have any strategy to deal with it except using my face as my shield, unless im lucky enough my Mek Gunz gets them. I still win 60% of our battles but still. its unfun and have nothing to do with the essence of warhammer tabletop, which is die throwing. Which you dont do, by spending 1 CP to force an explosion.

Imagine playing Khorne daemons and your enemy has purposefully thrown in a lot of many vehicles with a fancy strategem to explode them all in to your face. Im not sure how you're going to avoid that. Im not sure its necessarily going to win you the game, but the premise is just stupid, imo. It takes the gamble out of the tabletop game, and this game was build on die rolls.

There is a correct way to implement it, however, but 1CP stratagem for forcing an explosion with a 100% chance isnt it.
Fluff wise it makes sense for Orks to do so (yet also be unfun), but at least Orks have implemented this rule in a way that makes sense, and isnt OP like force explosions. I lose a vehicle doing so, but my enemy does not. They already lost it, and THEN blows it up. they lose nothing, gain everything.

We have to sacrifice a vehicle that was alive to do so in a blitz, Kamikaze attack. This seem balanced to me. It also seem balanced if the 1CP would be used to simply reduce the amount needed for the explosion to go off, like make it explode on a +4 so that theres at least a bit of die rolling and a 50% chance that it wont happen. The idea of you having a 100% chance to explode something for D6 damage in a 6 inch radius is stupid and should over all be removed.

+4s or 5s seem fair, and actively destroying your own vehicle during the movement phase also seem decently fair.

Beardedragon wrote:
Im not sure i like any faction at all being able to force explode vehicles, as it makes being a melee oriented faction pretty re tarded. Ranged units have the opportunity to take them out before they get close, melee cant. why must melee heavy factions have to be punished for destroying a vehicle?

I get the D6 roll, it makes sense, and is balanced, but that its possible to turn all your vehicles in to nukes at will just seem stupid.

a friend of mine plays death guard and im playing Goff. I know he makes them explode, but i also dont have any strategy to deal with it except using my face as my shield. Surprisingly i still win 60% of our battles but still.

Imagine playing Khorne daemons and your enemy has purposefully thrown in a lot of many vehicles with a fancy strategem to explode them all in to your face. Im not sure how you're going to avoid that.

Sure fluff wise it makes sense for Orks to do so, but at least Orks have implemented this rule in a way that makes sense. I lose a vehicle doing so, but my enemy does not. They already lost it, and THEN blows it up. they lose nothing, gain everything.

At least we have to sacrifice a vehicle to do so in a blitz, Kamikaze attack. This seem balanced to me. Or at least make it explode on a +4 so that theres at least a bit of die rolling and a 50% chance that it wont happen. The idea of you having a 100% chance to explode something for D6 damage in a 6 inch radius is stupid and should over all be removed. its an unfun mechanic.

I dunno, you kinda seem to undermine your point when you say that you already win most of your games against Death Guard. So clearly it's not unfair when it comes to competitive reasons. Don't forget you can only use it once a phase anyways, so at best you'll get it off 2-3 times a game max if you're lucky. I don't see how that would make it unfun. You're also forgetting how swingy it can potentially be since D3 and D6 mortals can cause as little as one mortal wound to 3 or 6, which notably you cannot reroll. So it's really more the psychological threat than anything concrete which I think adds to the tactics of the game of making your opponent think twice.

As for it being detrimental to melee armies...I mean most viable melee lists already assume that you're going to go through a lot of incoming fire and counter attacks with enemy CC units, so you either have enough bodies or durability to get through those challenges. If a few mortal wounds from a tank exploding is really going to ruin your army tactics/plans then your army is badly built to begin with.

 Grimskul wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Im not sure i like any faction at all being able to force explode vehicles, as it makes being a melee oriented faction pretty re tarded. Ranged units have the opportunity to take them out before they get close, melee cant. why must melee heavy factions have to be punished for destroying a vehicle?

I get the D6 roll, it makes sense, and is balanced, but that its possible to turn all your vehicles in to nukes at will just seem stupid.

a friend of mine plays death guard and im playing Goff. I know he makes them explode, but i also dont have any strategy to deal with it except using my face as my shield. Surprisingly i still win 60% of our battles but still.

Imagine playing Khorne daemons and your enemy has purposefully thrown in a lot of many vehicles with a fancy strategem to explode them all in to your face. Im not sure how you're going to avoid that.

Sure fluff wise it makes sense for Orks to do so, but at least Orks have implemented this rule in a way that makes sense. I lose a vehicle doing so, but my enemy does not. They already lost it, and THEN blows it up. they lose nothing, gain everything.

At least we have to sacrifice a vehicle to do so in a blitz, Kamikaze attack. This seem balanced to me. Or at least make it explode on a +4 so that theres at least a bit of die rolling and a 50% chance that it wont happen. The idea of you having a 100% chance to explode something for D6 damage in a 6 inch radius is stupid and should over all be removed. its an unfun mechanic.

I dunno, you kinda seem to undermine your point when you say that you already win most of your games against Death Guard. So clearly it's not unfair when it comes to competitive reasons. Don't forget you can only use it once a phase anyways, so at best you'll get it off 2-3 times a game max if you're lucky. I don't see how that would make it unfun. You're also forgetting how swingy it can potentially be since D3 and D6 mortals can cause as little as one mortal wound to 3 or 6, which notably you cannot reroll. So it's really more the psychological threat than anything concrete which I think adds to the tactics of the game of making your opponent think twice.

As for it being detrimental to melee armies...I mean most viable melee lists already assume that you're going to go through a lot of incoming fire and counter attacks with enemy CC units, so you either have enough bodies or durability to get through those challenges. If a few mortal wounds from a tank exploding is really going to ruin your army tactics/plans then your army is badly built to begin with.

i agree that its not necessarily unfair (it can be though), i just dont think its fun to see an explosion go off no matter what, in a game based around die rolls.
they should have to roll a +4 or a 5 or something, not just pass the roll no matter what.

and to my defence, nothing he has explodes on a D6 luckily, but the day he force explodes a vehicle for D6 inbetween my KFF blob will probably make me.. slight sad. Its unlikely as hes slow and im only in a blob on turn one but regardless.

I just feel like the premise is stupid and i dont want orks to have a force explosion. I dont want anyone to have it. I mean sure if everyone else has it but then we might as well make it an All faction stratagem.

I want to either keep the stratagem like what we have now for Ead' Butt' or a way of exploding on +4s or +5s because that way there is still risk involved. exploding on choice for 1 CP, offers no risk, and this game often is about taking risks normally.

But i agree with the notion that fluff wise, Orks are about the only race that should have this ability, and basically everyone else shouldnt even remotely be able to do this, lorewise.

Okay, so something that popped into my mind. We really don't have any anti psyker unit. Have no boyz ever thought, "That weird humie git is pretty killey, let's bash his head in." I'd love to see a unit of orks called Weird huntas or something. Maybe have ork weirdboy or imperial psyker brains strapped to their backs in jars, making some nifty aura. Or guns that shoot lightning with the chance of mortal wounds as they poke said brains.

cody.d. wrote:
Okay, so something that popped into my mind. We really don't have any anti psyker unit. Have no boyz ever thought, "That weird humie git is pretty killey, let's bash his head in." I'd love to see a unit of orks called Weird huntas or something. Maybe have ork weirdboy or imperial psyker brains strapped to their backs in jars, making some nifty aura. Or guns that shoot lightning with the chance of mortal wounds as they poke said brains.

Yeah, it would be interesting to see how overwhelming WAAAGH! energy doesn't just empower our Weirdboyz in casting but also denying the enemy. I'd draw a bit on the AoS side of things, where the Big WAAAGH! subfaction basically gives you WAAAGH! point counters to gain various buffs/abilities. One of them is increasing your cast/deny by D3 based on how many WAAAGH! points you give up. Depending on what kind of doctrine equivalent ability they give Orks, it's possible that they could make large squads of Orks capable of denying to reflect their WAAAGH! field and give Weirdboyz greater number of denies or bonuses to do so. Frankly, I'm surprised there isn't a WL trait that involves some form of denial ability. There's lots of opportunity for GW to explore the psychic side of Orks.

They could also bring back some of the silly epic weirdboy vehicles? There has been a story somewhere or another with a stompa which was also a platform for a weirdboy to cast powers. I think it was Baneblade.

Honestly it'd be the ork equivalent of the necron super heavy. But with melee and orkiness to back it up.

cody.d. wrote:
They could also bring back some of the silly epic weirdboy vehicles? There has been a story somewhere or another with a stompa which was also a platform for a weirdboy to cast powers. I think it was Baneblade.

Honestly it'd be the ork equivalent of the necron super heavy. But with melee and orkiness to back it up.

A Weirdboy tower used to be an Apocalypse option way back in 4th or 5th ed I believe, maybe even further back. I think GW is so focused on SM sometimes they forget that they can do crazy things for other armies like Orks that aren't conventional like marines are.

 Grimskul wrote:
I dunno, you kinda seem to undermine your point when you say that you already win most of your games against Death Guard. So clearly it's not unfair when it comes to competitive reasons. Don't forget you can only use it once a phase anyways, so at best you'll get it off 2-3 times a game max if you're lucky. I don't see how that would make it unfun. You're also forgetting how swingy it can potentially be since D3 and D6 mortals can cause as little as one mortal wound to 3 or 6, which notably you cannot reroll. So it's really more the psychological threat than anything concrete which I think adds to the tactics of the game of making your opponent think twice.

As for it being detrimental to melee armies...I mean most viable melee lists already assume that you're going to go through a lot of incoming fire and counter attacks with enemy CC units, so you either have enough bodies or durability to get through those challenges. If a few mortal wounds from a tank exploding is really going to ruin your army tactics/plans then your army is badly built to begin with.

Running DG myself, I do have to agree with Beardeddragon - Death Guard's auto-explode is an extremely powerful tool and can easily decide games on its own. That said, it's important to note that almost all DG vehicles minus the not-so-mighty landraider explode for 1 or d3 mortal wounds, aren't exactly cheap and usually can't be spammed. Orks have plenty of vehicles that are cheap and still explode for 6" of d3 mortal wounds and blowing up a bonebreaka or naut in the enemy army has potential to end the game right then and there. In one of my games Mortarion single-handedly defeated an entire craftworld artisans castle by blowing up in their face and rolling hot - and he only does 7" of d3 wounds. D6 damage also has the potential to one-shot anything from a support character like the big mek to named space marine captains. That's a completely different ballpark.

So I think that giving orks an auto-explode stratagem on all vehicles would actually be really bad for the game. While the burna-bommer is extreme efficient due to its flat 3 damage when 'eadbutting, you also kill your own fairly expensive model before it can shoot once, and you are pretty limited in how often you can do it due to slot restrictions. Many of the winning lists also aren't bring burna bommers, so it's not auto-take good either, but rather the ork's version of Infernal Gateway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
They could also bring back some of the silly epic weirdboy vehicles? There has been a story somewhere or another with a stompa which was also a platform for a weirdboy to cast powers. I think it was Baneblade.

Honestly it'd be the ork equivalent of the necron super heavy. But with melee and orkiness to back it up.

A Weirdboy tower used to be an Apocalypse option way back in 4th or 5th ed I believe, maybe even further back. I think GW is so focused on SM sometimes they forget that they can do crazy things for other armies like Orks that aren't conventional like marines are.

Just checked all my 5th edition books, it was gone before I started playing.

Does anyone remember this thing though?



I want it back as a fortification
With out translating the whole thing, it basically was a blast that scattered 4d6" (which you had the option to re-roll).
On 1-2 it pinned everyone within 2d6".
On 3-4 it pinned everyone within 3d6" and also caused them to lose 1 WS and BS for the rest of the turn
On 5-6 it pinned everyone within 4d6" and caused 3d6 S4 hits to each unit.
One shot only

I started playing orks back in 2nd edition...
The weirdboy tower was already gone... afaik it was epic only...

That huge scratch built rokkit thing was I beleive a white dwarf Apoc unit..
I don’t recall when it was shown maybe 2nd edition..
I know it wasn’t in 2-8 edition books or supplements ( I just tossed them all a year ago)
I even had a bunch of armor cast stuff like gobbsmasha and spleenrippa tanks, pulsa rokkit, squig catapult, and original smasha gun and lobba guns, and other ork stuff that’s have have put away downstairs.. except the armor cast stuff I may tossed out too.

That picture was a datasheet that you could download from GW for free during the Battle for Armageddon campaign.

Yeah, I remember the pulsa rokkit. Good times. Similar to how Chaos had a literaly doomsday device as one of their options for Apocalypse. You could tell they definitely had a lot more fun back then when it came to making up unit entries.

They really should have a mandatory "go to the pub, get drunk and design a unit"-day once per month.

 Jidmah wrote:
They really should have a mandatory "go to the pub, get drunk and design a unit"-day once per month.

Definitely better than their bizarre rules after sculpt system they use. You'd think the rules or fluff would inform models rather than the other way around.

 Jidmah wrote:
They really should have a mandatory "go to the pub, get drunk and design a unit"-day once per month.

they definitly should for the Greenskins race. I mean who came up with the idea of a grot mega tank that literally looks like a land based-ship? its a god damn ship on treads. absolutely brilliant. I wanna buy the Grot Mega tank just for the looks even if its terrible (i have no idea if it is though, the 7 kustom mega blasta shots seem pretty okay but eh.. 9 wounds only).

GW could find inspiration on a lot of secondary resin producers models, there are some pretty cool models out there and ideas too. I know they wont as that would be agreeing with the "enemy" about them creating cool looking models.

maybe they could delve more in to the whole Squig thing? or maybe more Weirdboy stuff as you guys are saying, the Weirdboy Stompa sound amazing.

Or maybe actually add the Gargant?

Werent there once looted tanks in the game? the idea sounds amazing but i have no idea if it was, gameplay wise.

Technically, they are in the game right now, you just can't play them in matched play and they suck.

 Jidmah wrote:
Technically, they are in the game right now, you just can't play them in matched play and they suck.

Yup, something that seems to repeatedly only happen to Orks for some reason. We get random rules drops but only in Legends....

yup they did the same with some more goff specific stuff.
The Goff Rokker would have been awesome to include in games but sadly nope no points just powerlevel openplay only.

I swear at this point half of the ork units are in legends/open play only now.

Does anyone know some good tactics channels or blogs for advice on orks in 9th? Going to try and get back into my orks since our group needs more xenos players and am kind of stumped on where to start. Rather than spam the thread with a bunch of questions or read through 20 pages of the thread was hoping to find somewhere to at least learn the basics of 9th ed orks and go from there.

I would love to see the return of the pulsa rokkit. As well as Wazdakka Gutsmek

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Does anyone know some good tactics channels or blogs for advice on orks in 9th? Going to try and get back into my orks since our group needs more xenos players and am kind of stumped on where to start. Rather than spam the thread with a bunch of questions or read through 20 pages of the thread was hoping to find somewhere to at least learn the basics of 9th ed orks and go from there.

This thread.

General tactics reddit and goonhammer

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Does anyone know some good tactics channels or blogs for advice on orks in 9th? Going to try and get back into my orks since our group needs more xenos players and am kind of stumped on where to start. Rather than spam the thread with a bunch of questions or read through 20 pages of the thread was hoping to find somewhere to at least learn the basics of 9th ed orks and go from there.

Tabletop Titans provides good info on all factions, here in includes Orks too. The guy Adrian plays them often