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So that gets me thinking. There may be ONE way to get a stompa wholly within range of a KFF and that would be to have the mek sitting on the first or possibly second floor of a building. Depending on how high your floors are.

I mean, you could try using a morkanaut to shield it in kff right?, the kff on it is elevated.

Mork has a base, so nothing changes since you measure from that base...

cody.d. wrote:
So that gets me thinking. There may be ONE way to get a stompa wholly within range of a KFF and that would be to have the mek sitting on the first or possibly second floor of a building. Depending on how high your floors are.

If the ruin is tall enough, that might work, but you would have to face the mek so none of the guns stick out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I mean, you could try using a morkanaut to shield it in kff right?, the kff on it is elevated.

Based models measure to and from the base, non-based model measure to any part of the model. Which is basically the whole reason for the problem.

Sector Mechanicus terrain and similar allows to put the Mek little bit on “cantilever” above Stompa skirt. This should work. Simillar different types of bridges from the building to building.

But it isn' t very competitive option to count with that

I wonder why they didnt go ahead and just changed the Garg squig and kustom stompa to simply have an invul save of 5 to shooting on their own to rid us of this debaucle.

Or at the very least, when you give the Kustom stompa a belly gun, it has a transport capacity of 2. that way you can have a Big mek with KFF as well as his mega armor variant inside of it.

Why GW thought it was fine for an 850 point model to have no invul saves or any real way of getting it, is beyond me.

Wait, this is fun. I have another solution! If you make a table with the trenches, there could be Big Mek in trench and Stompa standing above. This could also work. The only disadventage is, that in such case stompa can move just along the trench like a train…

The game of, "How to legally give a stompa a KFF without embarking him".

Its not competitive in it self, but i think ill play around the idea of putting the stompa near a house and the Big Mek Inside of it and putting it maybe 5 inches up or something. i guess that would actually do the trick.

 Tomsug wrote:
Wait, this is fun. I have another solution! If you make a table with the trenches, there could be Big Mek in trench and Stompa standing above. This could also work. The only disadventage is, that in such case stompa can move just along the trench like a train…

Nope, stompa is taller than 9".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
The game of, "How to legally give a stompa a KFF without embarking him".

Its not competitive in it self, but i think ill play around the idea of putting the stompa near a house and the Big Mek Inside of it and putting it maybe 5 inches up or something. i guess that would actually do the trick.

Seriously, don't bother. The stompa also is fairly wide, so if you put the KFF too far up, the armored skirt is going to start poking out. You can calculate or try how high the mek has to be to cover everything, and I doubt there is much leeway for placing the mek. You fiddling for minutes to get a stompa into a KFF that is not large enough to fit him regularly and possibly arguing about it will only make you a bad opponent.
If I remember correctly you own the kromlech stompa anyways, which is larger than the GW one, making even it harder to fit.

Just accept that ork LoW can't have a KFF save unless you embark a big mek. And don't bother guessing GW's intentions - they for sure didn't think even one bit about this. Even if there was anything behind it, their intention sure as hell wasn't to make stompas a decent choice for any ork.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For illustration of my point, one of my infamous drawings:


Stompa and the circle (= KFF range) are to scale, the big mek is likely not, but the edge of his base is located at the center of the circle. As you can see, even if you put the big mek on a 5-6" high ruin the stompa just barely fits next to it.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Wait, this is fun. I have another solution! If you make a table with the trenches, there could be Big Mek in trench and Stompa standing above. This could also work. The only disadventage is, that in such case stompa can move just along the trench like a train…

Nope, stompa is taller than 9".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
The game of, "How to legally give a stompa a KFF without embarking him".

Its not competitive in it self, but i think ill play around the idea of putting the stompa near a house and the Big Mek Inside of it and putting it maybe 5 inches up or something. i guess that would actually do the trick.

Seriously, don't bother. The stompa also is fairly wide, so if you put the KFF too far up, the armored skirt is going to start poking out. You can calculate or try how high the mek has to be to cover everything, and I doubt there is much leeway for placing the mek. You fiddling for minutes to get a stompa into a KFF that is not large enough to fit him regularly and possibly arguing about it will only make you a bad opponent.
If I remember correctly you own the kromlech stompa anyways, which is larger than the GW one, making even it harder to fit.

Just accept that ork LoW can't have a KFF save unless you embark a big mek. And don't bother guessing GW's intentions - they for sure didn't think even one bit about this. Even if there was anything behind it, their intention sure as hell wasn't to make stompas a decent choice for any ork.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For illustration of my point, one of my infamous drawings:

Spoiler:

Stompa and the circle (= KFF range) are to scale, the big mek is likely not, but the edge of his base is located at the center of the circle. As you can see, even if you put the big mek on a 5-6" high ruin the stompa just barely fits next to it.

True i kind of feel sad about buying the kromlech variant as its not a bit larger, its quite a bit larger i would say. Ill have to buy a normal kustom stompa from FW some time, but for now, the Kromlech one will be mainly for visual aestetics in my apartment when its painted.

But i did try him in two different battles, and he lasted to round 2 both times, and both times did i fail my visions in the smoke even with 30 boys around my weirdboy. I just needed a 6 but apparently i cant get that.

On another note, the PAINBOSS is here!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/03/this-dok-is-so-committed-to-rapid-response-hes-upgraded-his-own-legs/

Looking at the fluff text, he probably hits less harder than a normal painboy, but on the other hand, he probably dont get -1 to hit from his "power snappa" and he is probably also faster than the painboy, so he can keep up with the boys when they charge in and all that.

Sounds neat. Its not like you bring the painboy for the sake of mauling things anyway.

Edit:
Nice drawing btw

with luck, all that mechanical bits gives the painboss a proper save (or a minor invul save).
So tired of our characters toting a 6+ save and still costing about as much as the 3+ save gitz
Wonder if since hes a painBOSS hes an hq instead of an elite.

Nice painboss is back....
Hopefully they don’t discontinue mad doc grotsnik and this model has an alternative build for him.
And ya I’m expecting he’s going to be part of a crowded HQ.
I have a feeling this whole release is going to make HQ and especially fast atk extremely crowded...

Very nice model. I think it will be an Elites choice, as a direct mirror to the painboy. One for Orks, one for squigs.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Very nice model. I think it will be an Elites choice, as a direct mirror to the painboy. One for Orks, one for squigs.

Painboss use to be HQ
Painboss is to Big Mek
As
Painboy is to Mek

It also use to be
Warp’ead was an HQ and Weirdboy was below him but they made that into a strategem.. so anything is possible
I’m rather hoping this means painboys gets a significant point reduction.

Was Warp'eads ever their own datasheet? even in the old paperback (forget which gen it was before our dumpster 7th edition book) it was an upgrade option to a weirdboy.

I really wish they'd up the number of slots in a single detachment. This wasnt that big an issue in the past when everyone only had 1 battleforce option because things were expensive enough to make it difficult to even need more slots. But these days we have so many single models that are stupid cheap and HQs that feel mandatory so we cant use the optional ones easily. Probably the only thing i wish they'd adapt from age of sigmar is how armies are built.
Hell, as Admech i mostly bring my pteraxii because they fill slots i normally dont use and my other slots are full w/o being 2k lol

The bit about his cybork legs being meant to have him keep up with squighog boyz cements my assumption that they (and the painboss) will be M8", as a non-jump troop infantry going 10" feels a bit absurd, and Orks are slower to begin with.

Madjob wrote:
The bit about his cybork legs being meant to have him keep up with squighog boyz cements my assumption that they (and the painboss) will be M8", as a non-jump troop infantry going 10" feels a bit absurd, and Orks are slower to begin with.

You're assuming the squig riders will be infantry.

squigriders are cavalry theres no other way to view them. Cavalry usually move 12"
Painboss probably isnt QUITE that fast i'd bet

a bit of a side note here, but do you guys expect the deffkilla wartrike to be reduced below 115 points, which is the point cost of the warboss on warbike?

I mean he clearly isnt as good as the warboss on warbike, so i fail to see why he should be more expensive.

BDBurrow wrote:

Madjob wrote:
The bit about his cybork legs being meant to have him keep up with squighog boyz cements my assumption that they (and the painboss) will be M8", as a non-jump troop infantry going 10" feels a bit absurd, and Orks are slower to begin with.

You're assuming the squig riders will be infantry.

No I'm not, I'm assuming the Painboss, who is stated in today's article to be capable of keeping up with the obviously cavalry Squighog Boyz, is infantry.

The Painboss zooming around at 10+" is what seems absurd, not the cavalry, which is why I think they're both M8", maybe M9", unless GW just totally drops the ball and lets the riders totally outspeed the Painboss.

Beardedragon wrote:
a bit of a side note here, but do you guys expect the deffkilla wartrike to be reduced below 115 points, which is the point cost of the warboss on warbike?

I mean he clearly isnt as good as the warboss on warbike, so i fail to see why he should be more expensive.

I think they have to, otherwise he's going to be a "Dead in the water" option upon the codex release. If they don't change his price, his entire profile and weapon options or even rules like auras has to change fundamentally so that he does more in his support role than simply allowing vehicles to advance and charge.

 Grimskul wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
a bit of a side note here, but do you guys expect the deffkilla wartrike to be reduced below 115 points, which is the point cost of the warboss on warbike?

I mean he clearly isnt as good as the warboss on warbike, so i fail to see why he should be more expensive.

I think they have to, otherwise he's going to be a "Dead in the water" option upon the codex release. If they don't change his price, his entire profile and weapon options or even rules like auras has to change fundamentally so that he does more in his support role than simply allowing vehicles to advance and charge.

yea, i agree. And to be fair, it wouldnt hurt him to have different abilities, because right now hes just a more shooty version of a warboss on warbike, and that he doesnt even do very well.

When using the arsonist subculture, it states that burna bombs gets +1 to hit. But if you use them on infantry, they already get +1 to hit. Surely you wouldnt drop burna bombs on a +3 on infantry would you? Since such things shouldnt stack.

Im looking over the different sub cultures to find fun new armies i can try out. There are many klans i havent even tried before. Like Blood Axes. Im not sure i fully understand those either. Do vehicles gain +1 to their save throw for being 18 inches away from the shooting unit? and must they actually touch a piece of cover for this to happen or do they not have to?

It also says, that being 18 inches away just gives you the benefits of cover. but doesnt benefit of cover mean more than a saving throw? isnt benefits of cover also -1 to hit in case you stand behind dense cover? Im not fully sure how blood axes clan work at that point, and whether or not if i even need to stand in cover at all.

Beardedragon wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
a bit of a side note here, but do you guys expect the deffkilla wartrike to be reduced below 115 points, which is the point cost of the warboss on warbike?

I mean he clearly isnt as good as the warboss on warbike, so i fail to see why he should be more expensive.

I think they have to, otherwise he's going to be a "Dead in the water" option upon the codex release. If they don't change his price, his entire profile and weapon options or even rules like auras has to change fundamentally so that he does more in his support role than simply allowing vehicles to advance and charge.

yea, i agree. And to be fair, it wouldnt hurt him to have different abilities, because right now hes just a more shooty version of a warboss on warbike, and that he doesnt even do very well.

When using the arsonist subculture, it states that burna bombs gets +1 to hit. But if you use them on infantry, they already get +1 to hit. Surely you wouldnt drop burna bombs on a +3 on infantry would you? Since such things shouldnt stack.

Im looking over the different sub cultures to find fun new armies i can try out. There are many klans i havent even tried before. Like Blood Axes. Im not sure i fully understand those either. Do vehicles gain +1 to their save throw for being 18 inches away from the shooting unit? and must they actually touch a piece of cover for this to happen or do they not have to?

It also says, that being 18 inches away just gives you the benefits of cover. but doesnt benefit of cover mean more than a saving throw? isnt benefits of cover also -1 to hit in case you stand behind dense cover? Im not fully sure how blood axes clan work at that point, and whether or not if i even need to stand in cover at all.

The official warhammer 40k discord has a Scout Chat Newbie Help section that is designed for random rules questions like these. I don't know that an "Ork Tactics" thread is the right place for this kind of stuff, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

With that said, Blood Axes always get "the benefits of cover" if more than 18" away, which just means they get +1 to their save. This applies to all models, so yes, even your gorka/morkanaut get a 2+ save. Blood axes are really cool and one that I hope get a revamp with the new codex. You can pull off some cool tricks with waves of slugga/choppa boyz followed by shoota boyz or other similar things with fast melee units followed by slow shooty units.

Interesting lists with the Kustom stompa. Where can rules for this beast be found? And is the bellygun really worth the 50 points?

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
Interesting lists with the Kustom stompa. Where can rules for this beast be found? And is the bellygun really worth the 50 points?

if the difference between whether or not you can get a KFF is the belly gun, then no id say its not worth it. Because if you cant embark a big mek with KFF inside of it, then that belly gun isnt worth it, imo.

Ive used a bellygun with a big mek with KFF sitting outside giving it the invul save (which i wont be doing anymore because i wanna use it correctly unless i wanna try sitting in a tall ruin and do shinanigans and test different things), and both times i went second. Im fairly confident the difference between my Kustom Stompa being in a terrible shape rather than being actually dead, was that KFF. Therefore, id say the KFF is more important than the Belly gun. Sure if you go first its great to have but you cant dictate whether you go first or not. So better be safe and stick that Big mek KFF guy inside of it. At least that way you have the best possible chance of only being in a terrible shape by turn 2, rather than dead.

Anyone else hoping that the Painboss might be able to heal monsters (Ghaz)?

doubt it. Only marines get loopholes like that.
He will heal infantry or Squig, and Squigriders/that squig chariot thing will have the Squig keyword.

What is wrong with wartrike is it' s base. Hey it ' s freaking huge.

Look at the Eldar vehicles, etc. Sharp narrow triangles. They fit anywhere.

But wartrike? Hell. Huge base mostly empty…

Buggies shouldnt have been on bases to begin with. None of them need it for stability reasons and thats the only reason vehicles ever had them.

I always loved how the warboss on warbike had such a tiny base. Hes such a heat seeking missile that can just dart around and with his slim base he can just sneak in through gaps and charge anything he wants.

The Deffkilla is a big oaf