Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 kingbbobb wrote:
https://imgur.com/a/Tcv0ja3

a fairly big list of app leaks here, lol games workshop accidentally put the new codex on the warhammer app xD

Thanks for posting it. I was camping yesterday and I had to do all the posting sneaking out

 kingbbobb wrote:
lol for 2cp i can inlflict smite on my own units to stop them fleeing

Why would I ever do that if just auto-passing morale is also 2CP?

Sure, if multiple units are potentially failing, but still.

Come on GW.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Still no codex reviews? :(

Ash, where are you?!

I get the feeling that GW didn't send any of the "man read book" people a review copy.

The cynical gremlin in the back of my mind thinks they might know the codex is a whiff and didn't want the ork player base getting their hands on it before pre-ordering the boxed set.

But I suspect I'm giving them a bit too much credit.

Hunta rig 160
Snagged
Each time this model makes an attack with its stikka kannon, if an enemy non-titanic vehicle or monster loses any wounds, roll a D6. On a 4+ they cannot finish any type of move more than 12" from this model until the start of your next turn.
Open topped, ramshackle, ere we go.
15 transport capacity, SNAGGA LOCKED
Stikka kannon Heavy 1 S8 AP-2 D3 reroll hits against vehicles or monsters
3+/6++
T8 16W 6 A S6
CCW - Savage horns - S+1 AP-2 D3 4 additional attacks each time you fight
Saw blades
S+2 AP-2 D2
Kinda meh compared to the Bonebreaka TBH just because it's snagga locked. Probably superior for Snaggas. Degrades from 6A to D6 then D3 similar to BW.
Gets an additional 4 attacks S5 AP-1 D1

Comparison:

Bonebreaka gets 6+D6 or 9.5 average attacks 2+ S9 AP2 D2 attacks degrading to D6+D6 then D3+D6
Average 4.32 wounds at 2 damage or 8.64 dead MEQ

Hunta Rig gets 6 AP-2 S8 2d attacks
4 S7 AP-2 3d attacks
4 S5 AP-1 1d attacks
Average 4.2 damage
Average 3.3 damage
Average .87 unsaved wounds

Total 7.5 dead MEQ
.87 unsaved additional wounds


Gets a free 'eavy Lobba and Stikka Kannon, with 15 transport capacity so technically that's all a bonus, but both are heavy and chances to hit anything pretty low since it wants to be in combat.

 Oguhmek wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:
lol for 2cp i can inlflict smite on my own units to stop them fleeing

Why would I ever do that if just auto-passing morale is also 2CP?

Sure, if multiple units are potentially failing, but still.

Come on GW.

range is terrible aswell within 3".....these stratagems are terrible

 Oguhmek wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:
lol for 2cp i can inlflict smite on my own units to stop them fleeing

Why would I ever do that if just auto-passing morale is also 2CP?

Sure, if multiple units are potentially failing, but still.

Come on GW.

You can only use the generic strat once per battle so this would let you save a unit later in the battle if needed

 TedNugent wrote:
Hunta rig 160
Snagged
Each time this model makes an attack with its stikka kannon, if an enemy non-titanic vehicle or monster loses any wounds, roll a D6. On a 4+ they cannot finish any type of move more than 12" from this model until the start of your next turn.
Open topped, ramshackle, ere we go.
15 transport capacity, SNAGGA LOCKED
Stikka kannon Heavy 1 S8 AP-2 D3 reroll hits against vehicles or monsters
3+/6++
T8 16W 6 A S6
CCW - Savage horns - S+1 AP-2 D3 4 additional attacks each time you fight
Saw blades
S+2 AP-2 D2
Kinda meh compared to the Bonebreaka TBH just because it's snagga locked. Probably superior for Snaggas. Degrades from 6A to D6 then D3 similar to BW.
Gets an additional 4 attacks S5 AP-1 D1

Comparison:

Bonebreaka gets 6+D6 or 9.5 average attacks 2+ S9 AP2 D2 attacks degrading to D6+D6 then D3+D6
Average 4.32 wounds at 2 damage or 8.64 dead MEQ

Hunta Rig gets 6 AP-2 S8 2d attacks
4 S7 AP-2 3d attacks
4 S5 AP-1 1d attacks
Average 4.2 damage
Average 3.3 damage
Average .87 unsaved wounds

Total 7.5 dead MEQ
.87 unsaved additional wounds


Gets a free 'eavy Lobba and Stikka Kannon, with 15 transport capacity so technically that's all a bonus, but both are heavy and chances to hit anything pretty low since it wants to be in combat.

You can do some weeeird stuff with it because of the Character rule, though. It can be your Warlord and take Warlord traits, (and it's eligible for most of them), Relics (the gitbones was obviously intended but there's other things you can do with it), you can cast Fists of Gork on it, it's eligible for character-targeting stratagems.

I don't expect it to last, it was obviously unintended and some of the stuff you can do is silly, actually rather dangerous, and just all around unintuitive for the kind of unit it is. But enjoy it while it's there.

Twilight Pathways wrote:

 Oguhmek wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:
lol for 2cp i can inlflict smite on my own units to stop them fleeing

Why would I ever do that if just auto-passing morale is also 2CP?

Sure, if multiple units are potentially failing, but still.

Come on GW.

You can only use the generic strat once per battle so this would let you save a unit later in the battle if needed

it is so situational you will never use it,
range is 3"
gretchin = no, so you can't use it on kans
for boys or single wound infantry you would need to have 18 taking an attrition test for it to be even considered.
for multi wound units like meganobs - ok i concede might be of some use, but only really if its a big unit of 10

 kingbbobb wrote:

 Oguhmek wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:
lol for 2cp i can inlflict smite on my own units to stop them fleeing

Why would I ever do that if just auto-passing morale is also 2CP?

Sure, if multiple units are potentially failing, but still.

Come on GW.

range is terrible aswell within 3".....these stratagems are terrible

Worst stratagems I've seen in any codex including the 8th edition codexes.
They seem rushed, untested and largely illogical.

Going through the ones I've seen

The Clan based ones

2 CP Unbridled Carnage - Goff core or character gets extra hits on 5+ (rather than the standard Goff 6+)
Solid strat but feels like 2 CP is over costed

2 CP Wreckas - core or character +1 to wound against vehicles (shooting or fight)
Again decent if unspectacular and should have been 1 CP.

1 CP Mystic chanting - Deny a power with any snakebite unit
Actually reasonable

1 CP Get Da Loot - Obsec for any infantry unit
Reasonable

1 CP Drive-by-dakka - Evil Sunz unit shoot then move in shooting phase
Solid

1 CP Showing off - Bad Moonz, Exploding 6's on shooting. This is feel bads, taking a powerful stratagem that allowed us to shoot twice with a unit of Looterz and turning into the old dakka dakka ability that we used to get baked in, at least its only 1 CP but nobody is going to
get excited about this

1 CP Ded Sneaky - Blood Axes. if non meganob infantry < 3" from the edge of the board, go into strategic reserve
Reasonable

So the Clan ones all told aren't terrible, they just aren't exciting, and they feel lazy. there is none of the wow factor you get in other codexes.

But it gets worse....much worse

Generic Strats
2 CP More Dakka - Dakka weapons count as within half range - overcosted garbage and more feel bads given how important
this strat was in previous editions. Looking forwards to playing against Harlequins/Drukhari and on heavily dense terrain and my whole army
needing 6's to hit. Which is kind of why More Dakka existed in the first place...

2 CP Ramming Speed - Ork vehicle charges 3D6 and 2+ chance for D3 MW impact hits. - Still very solid. Did it really need to be 2 CP though?

1/2 CP Careen - ork vehicle moves 6" before being destroyed/exploding. 2 CP on wagons/titanics - Fun little stratagem but should never cost 2 CP to do a few mortals even on the bigger units.

2 CP Cloud of SMoke - Speed freek vehicle unit -1 to hit all speed freek vehicles <6" - Solid little strat for clumping up a few vehicles under a "Malenthrope" effect, really didn't need to be 2 CP.

2 CP Hit em harder - +1 damage to meganobz in melee - solid but did this really need to be 2 CP?

1 CP Lumbering strides - Gork/Mork or stompa gets to re-roll one dice when charging - yet more feel bads, as they taunt us with our old ere we go rule and make it cost 1 CP and locked out to certain unit types.... Isn't 40k meant to be fun? what's with all these feel bads GW?

2 CP Breakin Heads - Morale phase auto pass within 3" of Nobs/Warboss after taking test. D3 mortals. Another previously baked in ability becoming a stratagem. On what planet is this a 2 CP strat? I don't get the logic on this one at all. On big units of boyz (if anyone feels incentivized to still run them - though I don't see why anyone would) If you go below half strength and aren't within mob up range of another unit of orks you probably still don't pay 2 CP for this. Utterly nonsense stratagem.

1 CP Burn em all - Burna Bommer Skorcha rokkits shoot, 1 MW to each unit within <3" - what is this? this is laughable. Is this supposed to make us feel better about losing Flying eadbutt? I'm yet to even find an Ork player who spends the 10 points to upgrade a burna bomba to have worthless Skorcha rokkits. Pure garbage.

1 CP Get stuck in ladz - Boyz and snagga boyz pile in/consolidate +3" costs 2 CP if the unit is 11+ Models. +6" movement can potentially be a powerful ability but 2 CP for units over 11+ where you really want this ability to get everybody stuck in is just more feel bads. Did they really want Ork players feeling so bad about stratagems? These are supposed to excite the players aren't they? The absolute comedy of this is the fact that we have to spend 2 CP to pile in for our units above 11 models but Skitari rangers/Vanguard can auto/hit wound on a 4+ or double shoot for 1 CP. Feels totally play tested and balanced (you do it to yourselves GW)

2 CP Gun Crazy showoffs - Flash Gitz can shoot again at closest target. Did this really need to have the clause that you have to shoot at the closest target? And again you've taken away what flash gitz could do if automatically if they rolled a 6 and turned it into a stratagem. This isn't fun GW, this comes across as lazy.

2 CP Snagga grapple - one beast snagga/boyz unit - non titanic enemy can't fall back on a 4+ - Are you honestly joking with this one? 2 CP for a 50% chance to lock a unit into combat?
I have no words....

1 CP Tankbusta bomb - keyworded unit one model makes one attack, 2D3 mortal wounds if it hits a vehicle. Another random strat that has a 1 in 3 chance of doing absolutely nothing. Just keep heapin on the feel bads, particularly when you consider we used to have a stratagem for an entire squad to throw Tankbusta's bombs, and our ork boyz used to come with 1 for every 10 models for free. But it seems we can't have nice things. Can I continue to use the 8th edition codex in tournaments please?

1 CP cuttin flames - burna boyz -2 AP in melee. unexciting, used to be a baked in feature of burna's that they were power weapons. lazy, uninspiring.

2 CP Da Bigger dey iz - Beast Snagga warboss gets +2 damage against titanics - this is just so niche and such a waste of a stratagem that could have been filled with something actually useful. Comedy that's its 2 CP.

1 CP - Extra Gubbinz - extra relic - standard, every codex has it, nothing to say on this one

1 CP - Big Boss - extra warlord trait - again standard fare, every codex has it.

2 CP Force Field Boosta - KFF becomes 5+ invul in enemy shooting - Just keep rubbing in those delicious feel bads GW...."Hey guys you can spend 2 CP to do what your KFF used to do for free? aren't you excited?"

2 CP Tellyporta - non monster ork unit PL 20 or less deep strikes - still overcosted and in a world where literally anything can strategically reserve un-exciting.

1 CP Tide of Muscle - ignore modifiers on charge - Actually like this and can see it coming in useful

2 CP Orks is never beaten - Character fights on death - standard, glad they kept it in.

1 CP unstoppable momentum - smasha squig charges again if out of melee after charge phase - tricksy can see applications but so very very niche

2 CP grot shields - start of enemy shooting can't target one ork unit if one selected grot unit <6" and closer. I like this, but really not convinced it needed to be 2 CP. It's not blowing my knickers off with excitement.

1 CP Groundshaker shells - eavy lobber gun reduces movement or something.....who really cares? super niche

2 CP Tough as squig hide - only wounded on 4+ for beast snaggas. Why is our transhuman 2 CP? can't we have anything remoteley overpowered? GW game devs you're aware of the stratagems other factions have right?

2 CP Monster hunterz - one vehicle/monster is +1 to wound for 3 beast snagga units. - boring, uninspiring guff. And 2 CP again...

that's all the ones I've seen so far.

Not sure how they've managed to make less inspiring stratagems than our 8th edition codex had.

The stratagems we've lost really hurt.

All told bitterly disappointed.

yeah i dont get why so many strats are 2cp for us. 2cp strats are supposed to be few, reserved for the big stuff that makes a huge impact.
Grot Shields is not a freaking huge impact.

In general our strats feel pretty lame. They’re practically all CP2 as well.

Gut feeling is we are spending cp on pre fame strats and only a handful will see consistent use in game like fight on death. Maybe more dakka if you have a unit for it.

Some strats are pure garbage but...youre mad about stuff like "shoot again with flash gits for 2cp?" The old ability was never worth positioning the guys to trigger it, im using the new one every time my guys are on the fething board, 30x s6 ap-3 d2 shots for 2cp hell yeah.

Definitely feels like the power level of ork units is in their core stats, rather than special rules or stratagems. Theres still a bit we dont know, but if the specialist mobs really are both free and unlimited replacements of the normal <clan> abilities....orks are going to be quite powerful imo. Just not gonna be making great use of cp - just using it to pile on blunt offensive buffs lol.

New grot shields is spicy too in the world of obscuring terrains and true los. Hide some teeny grot models in a ruin out of true los, get a free no-shootsies for any other unit within 6"

Orkz is never Beaten took a huge hit - you don't get to use it on a Character that's already fought.

Nobs are 18 points. I really wish they'd stayed at 17, assuming a point drop wasn't in the cards. Might still be able to take double Choppa? The wording is weird. Klaws are 8pts and Big Choppas are 3pts so there's some points saved there, at least. They don't compare that badly to Snagga boyz, at least.

2 CP Orks is never beaten - Character fights on death - standard, glad they kept it in.

this was nerfed aswell - you can only fight again if you didn't already fight......and it no longer applies to shooting

so basically someone has to charge you and kill you to use it







Automatically Appended Next Post:

Madjob wrote:
Orkz is never Beaten took a huge hit - you don't get to use it on a Character that's already fought.

Nobs are 18 points. I really wish they'd stayed at 17, assuming a point drop wasn't in the cards. Might still be able to take double Choppa? The wording is weird. Klaws are 8pts and Big Choppas are 3pts so there's some points saved there, at least. They don't compare that badly to Snagga boyz, at least.

you think thats bad....biker boys are 25 and are still T5, they didn't go up in toughness lol



basically paying 16pts for 14movement and a 4+ save lol

 the_scotsman wrote:
Some strats are pure garbage but...youre mad about stuff like "shoot again with flash gits for 2cp?" The old ability was never worth positioning the guys to trigger it, im using the new one every time my guys are on the fething board, 30x s6 ap-3 d2 shots for 2cp hell yeah.

Definitely feels like the power level of ork units is in their core stats, rather than special rules or stratagems. Theres still a bit we dont know, but if the specialist mobs really are both free and unlimited replacements of the normal <clan> abilities....orks are going to be quite powerful imo. Just not gonna be making great use of cp - just using it to pile on blunt offensive buffs lol.

New grot shields is spicy too in the world of obscuring terrains and true los. Hide some teeny grot models in a ruin out of true los, get a free no-shootsies for any other unit within 6"

Not mad about that one, my point on that one is why does it need the caveat that you have to target the closest enemy? seems unnecessary on a 2 CP strat.

 kingbbobb wrote:

2 CP Orks is never beaten - Character fights on death - standard, glad they kept it in.

this was nerfed aswell - you can only fight again if you didn't already fight......and it no longer applies to shooting

so basically someone has to charge you and kill you to use it







Automatically Appended Next Post:

Madjob wrote:
Orkz is never Beaten took a huge hit - you don't get to use it on a Character that's already fought.

Nobs are 18 points. I really wish they'd stayed at 17, assuming a point drop wasn't in the cards. Might still be able to take double Choppa? The wording is weird. Klaws are 8pts and Big Choppas are 3pts so there's some points saved there, at least. They don't compare that badly to Snagga boyz, at least.

you think thats bad....biker boys are 25 and are still T5, they didn't go up in toughness lol



basically paying 16pts for 14movement and a 4+ save lol

but they did go upto 3 wounds which i missed

 kingbbobb wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:

Madjob wrote:
Orkz is never Beaten took a huge hit - you don't get to use it on a Character that's already fought.

Nobs are 18 points. I really wish they'd stayed at 17, assuming a point drop wasn't in the cards. Might still be able to take double Choppa? The wording is weird. Klaws are 8pts and Big Choppas are 3pts so there's some points saved there, at least. They don't compare that badly to Snagga boyz, at least.

you think thats bad....biker boys are 25 and are still T5, they didn't go up in toughness lol



basically paying 16pts for 14movement and a 4+ save lol

but they did go upto 3 wounds which i missed

And gained native -1 to hit against shooting, and automatic 6" advance, and +4 shots at half range. While dropping 2 points. Warbikers made out like thieves in this codex, and thankfully have a niche to fill that's not invalidated by Squighog Boyz.

Madjob wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:

Madjob wrote:
Orkz is never Beaten took a huge hit - you don't get to use it on a Character that's already fought.

Nobs are 18 points. I really wish they'd stayed at 17, assuming a point drop wasn't in the cards. Might still be able to take double Choppa? The wording is weird. Klaws are 8pts and Big Choppas are 3pts so there's some points saved there, at least. They don't compare that badly to Snagga boyz, at least.

you think thats bad....biker boys are 25 and are still T5, they didn't go up in toughness lol



basically paying 16pts for 14movement and a 4+ save lol

but they did go upto 3 wounds which i missed

And gained native -1 to hit against shooting, and automatic 6" advance, and +4 shots at half range. While dropping 2 points. Warbikers made out like thieves in this codex, and thankfully have a niche to fill that's not invalidated by Squighog Boyz.

Agreed. I'll be running 2 units of 4 at 100 pts per unit to do the job that outriders were doing for marine players at the beginning of this edition. They can nip onto the objectives and demand to be shot at, and if your opponent ignores them they can threaten to tie up his/her shooting units in combat.

Madjob wrote:
Orkz is never Beaten took a huge hit - you don't get to use it on a Character that's already fought.

Nobs are 18 points. I really wish they'd stayed at 17, assuming a point drop wasn't in the cards. Might still be able to take double Choppa? The wording is weird. Klaws are 8pts and Big Choppas are 3pts so there's some points saved there, at least. They don't compare that badly to Snagga boyz, at least.

There is some potential with the following - Warboss gives +1 to hit, Big Choppas and PKs are cheaper, PKs have a better profile...

You can certainly take a choppa offhand with every special weapon, which means you could run big choppa+choppa for every model in the unit for 21 PPM. With Goffs, that's 3 Big Choppa attacks at S8 on the charge, plus a choppa hit at -1 AP and S6 per model. It certainly compares favorably to assault intercessors if nothing else. They still compare poorly with Meganobz when it comes to klaws because that's 26 points versus 35 points and they get a free kustom shoota with a 2+/3W, and Goffs do nothing for them.

I'm just thinking an easy mix for them would be a warboss in tow with 10 BC/C nobs for +2 to hit, 3 big choppa attacks wounding on 2's with 2 damage and -1 AP, or 4 with waaagh. It's nothing to sneeze at, but there are potentially better options. You could also easily do MSUs out of trukks with no loss in efficiency, still getting Waaagh and S8 on charge. Alternatively, you could use them as Trukk Boyz and use dual choppas or choppa+Klaws sprinkled in, and disembark after moving.

18 points sounds like a lot until you realize it's still twice as expensive as a boy, with a 4+ armor save and 2 wounds. In what planet is that bad or inefficient? Footslogging boyz aren't going to be a thing any more, and they're certainly better than MSU boyz, with the possible exception of Goff Boyz. You could say Snaggas, but I'd say 5 S5 AP-1 attacks compare favorably on a platform that is more than twice as durable and is only 7 points more.

Was the warboss' datasheets leaked already? I'm asking since I say the BM trait which is still a 4++ for him and Da Biggest Boss seems to be cut off. So our warboss is out of chance to get an invuln, again? Or maybe it's a built in 5++. Wartrike gained it, if I'm not wrong. Sure warboss with no invuln will hurt a lot.

 Oguhmek wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:
lol for 2cp i can inlflict smite on my own units to stop them fleeing

Why would I ever do that if just auto-passing morale is also 2CP?

Sure, if multiple units are potentially failing, but still.

Come on GW.

Unlike insane heroism, you don't need to pay the 2 CP unless you fail, so you can try to pass own your own first. Not awesome, but it has a niche.

Madjob wrote:


And gained native -1 to hit against shooting, and automatic 6" advance, and +4 shots at half range. While dropping 2 points. Warbikers made out like thieves in this codex, and thankfully have a niche to fill that's not invalidated by Squighog Boyz.

They also fire with AP-1 in the waaagh turn, which can be nice on 10/6 S5 shots per model. To me they look pretty solid now.

Well, now I ´m totally confused. So the Codex alone will be available after 15th August. Oficially confirmed. This is super stupid. Scalpels likes it. Maybe GW has its own scalpel division and makes extra money on reselling its own stuff on ebay or idontknow…

Gun wagon seems awefully lot like the kannon wagon now.

I wonder what will happen to the cannon wagon.

Beardedragon wrote:
Gun wagon seems awefully lot like the kannon wagon now.

I wonder what will happen to the cannon wagon.

Nothing. Kannonwagon is in FW rule book. This will be still valid.

I haven seen this one in the thread yet, a much more readable compilation of the rumors from the reddit thread https://imgur.com/a/YC4UNqS

 Blackie wrote:
Was the warboss' datasheets leaked already? I'm asking since I say the BM trait which is still a 4++ for him and Da Biggest Boss seems to be cut off. So our warboss is out of chance to get an invuln, again? Or maybe it's a built in 5++. Wartrike gained it, if I'm not wrong. Sure warboss with no invuln will hurt a lot.

All bosses seem to have a built in 5++, so there's that upgrade.

I also just noticed stormboyz are capped at 15 now.

Madjob wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:

Madjob wrote:
Orkz is never Beaten took a huge hit - you don't get to use it on a Character that's already fought.

Nobs are 18 points. I really wish they'd stayed at 17, assuming a point drop wasn't in the cards. Might still be able to take double Choppa? The wording is weird. Klaws are 8pts and Big Choppas are 3pts so there's some points saved there, at least. They don't compare that badly to Snagga boyz, at least.

you think thats bad....biker boys are 25 and are still T5, they didn't go up in toughness lol



basically paying 16pts for 14movement and a 4+ save lol

but they did go upto 3 wounds which i missed

And gained native -1 to hit against shooting, and automatic 6" advance, and +4 shots at half range. While dropping 2 points. Warbikers made out like thieves in this codex, and thankfully have a niche to fill that's not invalidated by Squighog Boyz.

i totally missed the cloud of smoke ability xD

It's kind of insane how much cheaper and better all the buggies have gotten. I'll probably have both spare CPs and points despite running the same list.

Can't wait to see what they have done with the mek speshul, scrap jet, squig buggy and KMB definitely look vicious, SJD has pretty much stayed the same.
With warbikers and koptas also getting huge boosts, outrider detachments are looking veeery tempting.
The only question remaining is what clan to pick - but considering how meh all of them have become, might as well go back to blood axes, if only for the extra CP.

I just hope to mork that they don't force them to act as a single unit.

On the topic of stratagems, there is little surprise to me here. In 9th edition codices stratagems that provide damage buffs and other no-brainer stratagems all tend to be 2CP, 1CP tends to be reserved for situational, stratagems, unit specific ones or otherwise limited stratagems.
And yes, there are exceptions to this rule, but they aren't the norm.

Now that the dust has settled, I can’t see a list that I would enjoy to play other than trukk boys. It feels like they took away all the flavor of orks. The strats are absolute garbage. Horde boyz isn’t feasible with the nerfed mob rule. Nauts are titantic LoW. This sucks.