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 Vineheart01 wrote:
Agreed, Evil Sunz got done dirty. They took the speed out of the army and didnt at least give it back to the speedy gitz lol.

Yeah, I was surprised there wasn't any sort of direct support to speed freaks (besides adding base movement) or other fast units considering Snakebitez explicitly help out squig keyword units. Even just flat out stating that Evil Sunz units can advance and shoot dakka weapons as if they were assault weapons would have been nice. I get the issue with the previous version was that it promoted mass boyz which kind of goes against what Evil Sunz are about, but they could have made the +1 to charge for Biker and Vehicle units.

I think rukkatrukks, KMB grot mega tanks, rokkit kans, basically all BS4 shooting, is gonna benefit massively for bad moons. That +6 range is going to give these units the litte extra juice they need.

Bad moon range bonus is heavy and dakka only.

Doesn't benefit a lot of what you said. Rukka and KMB are assault. Rockets tho.

Can someone explain to me why Ghaz has stikkbombs?

BDBurrow wrote:
Can someone explain to me why Ghaz has stikkbombs?

Do you want to be the one who tries to take them off him?

Da boss carries whatever he wants I guess, who's gonna zoggin' stop him?

That imgur album has updated with 2 new psychic powers BTW "spirit of Gork" & "squiggly curse". I think they both are beasthide powers and both seem pretty darn tasty IMO.

BDBurrow wrote:
Can someone explain to me why Ghaz has stikkbombs?

It's something modelled on but they never bothered to give him a rule where it lets him use that in conjunction with Mork's Roar, typical GW rules oversight

Sure, but unless they were some souped-up stikkbombs would you even use them if you could? It's like the ridin' shotgun rule for the buggies. It's cute but unless I desperately need to remove a last wound somewhere I don't bother firing the grot blasta..

do we actually have confirmation that Dakka /= assault? i'll be honest, I'd already abandoned Evil Sunz trait in exchange for Freebootas and I dont see that being likely to change, particularly given that their absolute garbo relic and stratagem have been replaced by some truly tasty and devious Obsec tricksiness, but if dakka is capable of functioning as Assault Evil Sunz could still have something of a place.

Warbikers and Stormboyz are CORE, after all, and a regular footsloggin' waaagh enables all CORE units (regardless of clan affiilitation) to advance and charge as well as gain +1A. Warbikers in evil sunz would be able to move 23" and then charge with +1A turn 1, while evil sunz trukk boyz have similar range. if you want to go for a flat-out turn 1 pressure list, Evil Sunz appears to have wings in that regard and can deliver a strategic fight last as well with the relic.

You might have enough movement to pull off a similar thing with Goffs, and that's probably the worst bit about new evil sunz, but if they could not give up their shooting while doing it I can see there being a reason to go for them.

tulun wrote:
Bad moon range bonus is heavy and dakka only.

Doesn't benefit a lot of what you said. Rukka and KMB are assault. Rockets tho.

Damn, I thought rokkits and kmb but you are right. Also, why on earth is sguig buggy assault ? Oh well, that just leaves rokkit kans and Kustom Blasta mech gunz open for a bad moon buff. Perhaps a bad moon spearhead with a 2*4 rokkit kanz and 3*1 Kustom Blasta mech gun could be a relatively versatile mid-long range threat. Also, bad moon warbikers with the showin off strat used during a speedwaaaagh could be fun !

But yeah Heavy and Dakka only makes the klan trait kind of unimpressive, all things considered

So, is it confirmed that grot units get clan benefits? I guess, death skull msu kans and mek gunz can be nice.

considering my orks are BadMoonz to begin with im probably sticking with them. Heavily debating if i want to paint the beastsnagga stuff badmoonz or something else.

As a result i dont see myself using the squigbuggy for that reason. Even though i have one already painted yellow lol. It still feels a bit lack luster but at least now its decent enough to field and not feel like dead weight, it will do damage.

Sidebar: I really wish people making these leaks were just a tiny bit more concerned with the core baseline mechanics of how the orks worked like "wtf is this Specialist Mobs thing? How is it limited? Can I just declare ANYBODY a specialist mobster? it seems to imply that it replaces <Clan> since it specifically calls out that Speciallist Mobs can be taken in <clan> detachments without losing benefits like a named character, but in the only rules text I've seen it just says the unit "gains the keyword".

how, if at all, do Grots interact with any of these rules? 'Orrible Gitz, the specialist mob, notes that they gain obsec, do grots not normally gain obsec?

how does Dakka work? was GW really actually stupid enough to make 'advance and fire assault weapons' a core part of both the Speedwaaagh and Evil Sunz trait (thanks for that redundancy, btw) when theyve only left like 4 or 5 non-autohitting assault weapons in the whole ass codex?

Just slightly bizarre that we have almost full statlines for every single thing leaked and nobody was like 'lets grab a peek of that ol' core army-wide rules page in full!"

 koooaei wrote:
So, is it confirmed that grot units get clan benefits? I guess, death skull msu kans and mek gunz can be nice.

Ah damn again. I think there is one big issue with grot getting clan benefits: snakebite grots. It would be so strange to have autocanons wound grots on 4s... But who know, GW is capable of anything these days (the ad mech auto wound on 4s to hit strat, chickens, several druk things too, morven vahl...).

Best forget about bad moons for now, until we get more info.

Gretchin do not have obsec by default.

My understanding of Gretchin is that people are saying they might get clan rules - but you have the option with Orrible Gits to make them obsec instead, forgoing its clan rules. This does not impact the rest of the detachment, just the Gretchin unit itself.

Essentially, they are their 8th edition version. All you would have to do is tap them and make them specialists.

So if you wanted them to be 50 point obsec unit you could still do that and plant them backfield to use a troop slot.

It's hard to clarify without the book, this is just patching together what we've seen.

 the_scotsman wrote:
do we actually have confirmation that Dakka /= assault? i'll be honest, I'd already abandoned Evil Sunz trait in exchange for Freebootas and I dont see that being likely to change, particularly given that their absolute garbo relic and stratagem have been replaced by some truly tasty and devious Obsec tricksiness, but if dakka is capable of functioning as Assault Evil Sunz could still have something of a place.

Warbikers and Stormboyz are CORE, after all, and a regular footsloggin' waaagh enables all CORE units (regardless of clan affiilitation) to advance and charge as well as gain +1A. Warbikers in evil sunz would be able to move 23" and then charge with +1A turn 1, while evil sunz trukk boyz have similar range. if you want to go for a flat-out turn 1 pressure list, Evil Sunz appears to have wings in that regard and can deliver a strategic fight last as well with the relic.

You might have enough movement to pull off a similar thing with Goffs, and that's probably the worst bit about new evil sunz, but if they could not give up their shooting while doing it I can see there being a reason to go for them.

That is not a bad idea, as the way specialist mob is phrased, it's the Boyz that become specialists and lose their clan rules, not the transport itself. And in fact it is explicit that the rest of the detachment is not affected.

So, yes, you could move the Trukk with +1" movement and then disembark the Trukk Boyz specialist mob. Probably more useful than having a "Goff Trukk" at least.

But you wouldn't be able to advance and shoot your Big Shoota at +1 BS unless that affects dakka weapons as well. Honestly, I think that's something that would need to be FAQ'd.

 the_scotsman wrote:
do we actually have confirmation that Dakka /= assault?

Well, currently it seems it's not any of known weapon types (assault/rapid fire etc.), but instead is a new type, which follows the same basic rules as any other weapon type during shooting phase (so it cannot be fired if the model advanced).

I'm torn on which klans I want to mix in a double detachment. Right now I'm leaning Goffs or Snakebits for the heavy lifting fighty stuff, and DS for Stormboyz/Kommandos/MANZ for obsec shenanigans.

can we mix klans? previously that denied kultures didnt it? including between detachments.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
can we mix klans? previously that denied kultures didnt it? including between detachments.

I think he meant like having two separate klan detachments in his army, not within the same detachment.

People really aren't thinking through the specialist mobs. They just forgo clan rules for that unit, so if it provides a benefit; take it.

One perfect example is burns boys/pyromaniacs. It just improves your average number of hits from 3.5 average to 4 and sets a floor of 3 hits minimum. With a 12" range, they now average .66 wounds per model against marines. For 11 points.

The downside is those stupid spannas they make you take for every 4 of them.

A kombi skorcha puts out exactly double the number of wounds as a burna for 28 points.

It's interesting if nothing else. Burnas might literally be one of the most efficient shooting units. A Shoota boy costs 9 points and puts out .16 wounds on average against an MEQ at 9" range, by contrast. Burnas in a Trukk with pyromaniacs should be reviewed, as they could fit in any list just as happily. For a whopping 180 points for 10 of them in a Trukk.

Honestly, I'm starting to think why not put kombi skorchas on Meganobs for 5 points? It's an average of one wound on an MEQ at 12" range and far outstrips the output on any other ranged infantry weapon for the points. They're going to be in a Trukk or a Wagon anyway.

They could be Trukk Boyz or Pyromaniacs. Trukk boys get to move 12" disembark 3" then roast somebody at 12" range and charge. Literally why not.

Specialist mobs are actually kinda nice tbh.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Sidebar: I really wish people making these leaks were just a tiny bit more concerned with the core baseline mechanics of how the orks worked like "wtf is this Specialist Mobs thing? How is it limited? Can I just declare ANYBODY a specialist mobster? it seems to imply that it replaces <Clan> since it specifically calls out that Speciallist Mobs can be taken in <clan> detachments without losing benefits like a named character, but in the only rules text I've seen it just says the unit "gains the keyword".

how, if at all, do Grots interact with any of these rules? 'Orrible Gitz, the specialist mob, notes that they gain obsec, do grots not normally gain obsec?

how does Dakka work? was GW really actually stupid enough to make 'advance and fire assault weapons' a core part of both the Speedwaaagh and Evil Sunz trait (thanks for that redundancy, btw) when theyve only left like 4 or 5 non-autohitting assault weapons in the whole ass codex?

Just slightly bizarre that we have almost full statlines for every single thing leaked and nobody was like 'lets grab a peek of that ol' core army-wide rules page in full!"

Yeah, it's almost the same pattern as all those shaky mobile pictures from the last year

 Grimskul wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
can we mix klans? previously that denied kultures didnt it? including between detachments.

I think he meant like having two separate klan detachments in his army, not within the same detachment.

Yeah I meant two detachments. I think we will need two and spending the CP for another outrider or whatever isn't a huge issue to me. There aren't a lot of strats I think that will be used constantly except extra WLTs, Relics, maybe something in the tellporta.

I think you should be able to mix klan kulturs within a detachment and get all of the benefits though, as a single WAAAGH is made up of a number of klans and tribes all uniting under one boss. It should be our compensation for having access to no allies and also having pretty tame army wide rules.

 Grimskul wrote:

Kebabcito wrote:
The problem is, SAG was broken due to DS rerrolls. Now you can rerroll only once hit OR wounds, and no damage. No double shoot neithrr

Yeah, it was the damage reroll in particular that made it quite strong to skew into the direction you wanted. Without that reliability and SAG still being quite expensive at 110 points base (125 if you take the upgrade), I don't know if their utility is better than other HQ slots now that they're at a premium in our lists.

There is a cool little symbiosis of you want to take the 70pt Mek workshop and put a Sag Mek on top or regular Mek. U can also hand out free kustom jobs…not sure it’s competitive but fun


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Agreed, Evil Sunz got done dirty. They took the speed out of the army and didnt at least give it back to the speedy gitz lol.

Evil sun can be better if Dakka wpns are added to kultur in the faq it’s crazy they didn’t realize they removed all but ~2 assault weapons from orks. They are okay even though The +1 to charge rolls was one of the main reason people took them and that’s gone.

Do we know if the class psychic powers from saga are no longer usable? Because NONE of them were ported over.. and visions in the smoke was another draw to evil suns.

There is a cool little symbiosis of you want to take the 80pt Mek workshop and put a Sag Mek on top or regular Mek. U can also hand out free kustom jobs…not sure it’s competitive but fun

That's actually a cool idea because he could also stick around for repairs.

Considering the kustom jobs are per model and you are limited to 1 unique kustom job unless you take the Mek workshop… I’m not sure if the Mek workshop will be almost mandatory for buggy/dread lists.. you might as well make the most use of it…

Imho worst clan is bloodaxe (depending on snikrot rules), followed closely by freebooter… while the freebooter +1 to hit looks nice it’s mostly redundant for alot of your army, the relic is blah, the freebooter strat is blah and the warlord trait is blah… thier best strat is flashgitz shoot twice and it’s not freebooter detachment locked.

today (7/19) at 1PM eastern time discussion of the new ork codex on art of war. tomorrow we get a game of the new codex same channel at 1 so looking forward to both myself. Brad Chaster will be in both so yay. *happy waaagh noises*

Small blood axe detachment is gonna be really strong, though, to abuse some of their tricks.

I think mono Blood Axes is a bad idea, though.

gungo wrote:
Considering the kustom jobs are per model and you are limited to 1 unique kustom job unless you take the Mek workshop… I’m not sure if the Mek workshop will be almost mandatory for buggy/dread lists.. you might as well make the most use of it…

Imho worst clan is bloodaxe (depending on snikrot rules), followed closely by freebooter… while the freebooter +1 to hit looks nice it’s completely redundant and doesnt stack, the relic is blah, the shoot twice strat is nice and the warlord trait is blah…

Man, I completely cannot disagree more on Freebootas.

A +1 to hit bonus is only redundant possibly in close combat, if you bring a non-deffkilla warboss (deffkilla AFAIK has no +1 to hit aura unlike other warboss types) and is much more rarely redundant for shooting, where the real money is with Freebootas. Just start out your shooting with whatever Specialist Mobz units you've got in your army to get a kill, and then +1 to hit across the board.

And the obsec shuffling stratagem and relic? Meh? Obsec is how you win the game! Warlord trait is definitely garbage though. Luckily, you can always just take Competitive Edg-iiiiiii mean Brutal But Kunnin'!

 G00fySmiley wrote:
today (7/19) at 1PM eastern time discussion of the new ork codex on art of war. tomorrow we get a game of the new codex same channel at 1 so looking forward to both myself. Brad Chaster will be in both so yay. *happy waaagh noises*

Finish up the leaks :p
confirm the specialist nob takes away kulturs
Confirm if grots benefit now from kulturs
Tell me what snikrot, maddoc, badruk, zagstruk specials are
Are saga of beast psychic powers gone
Confirm you can’t assault w Dakka weapons and they don’t work for evilsuns

I think that’s the only questions left.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
can we mix klans? previously that denied kultures didnt it? including between detachments.

I think he meant like having two separate klan detachments in his army, not within the same detachment.

yeah thats what i meant. Other armies you sacrifice something to bring multiple army rules like kultures in the new codexes. I was expecting the same thing for orks.
Like as Necrons if i bring 2 detachments, one Novokh one Mephrit, i cannot use Protocols (believe i still keep the dynasty rules in their respective detachments though).