We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics

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**XC18**

Something I'd like to clarify, I have read somewhere that our Nauts couldn't got kustom job or be specialist mob easily. but is that correct ?
Is there a rule somewhere about that ?

**Afrodactyl**

XC18 wrote:
Something I'd like to clarify, I have read somewhere that our Nauts couldn't got kustom job or be specialist mob easily. but is that correct ?
Is there a rule somewhere about that ?

Both Specialist Mobs and Kustom Jobs state;

"If your army is Battle-forged and includes any Orks Detachments (excluding Auxiliary Support, Super-Heavy Auxiliary or Fortification Network Detachments)...."

I read this as "don't count Stompas/Nauts/Bunkas when checking, you need to have other models as well", because Nauts are specifically mentioned by Big Krumpaz as a Specialist Mob and Stompamatic Pistons as a Kustom Job.

Based on that, I would also suggest that Nauts and Stompas are eligible for the More Dakka, Shokka Hull and the Gorkanaut an use the Extra Kustom Weapons on it's KMB.

**kingbbobb**

koooaei wrote:
I'm gona run meganobz - I have 15 since the bully boyz formation in 7th - and i'm thinking on how to run them. Practice shows that making them too expensive and killy is not gona work cause their truck/wagon is gona be top priority. So, 3-4 in a truck or 5-6 in a wagon are a max.

Now what real options do we have. As a mostly light vehicle shooty force, we do need some semi-durable infantry that's hard to push off objectives w/o dedicated multi damage high app weaponry that usually goes into other stuff. Also, it can be nice to tap something to prevent it from shooting.

- Trukkboyz meganobz. If it's a legal option, which currently ain't no given. But if it is, they can be quite a nice tool. 35 base cost per model but I'm thinking of running them with kombi-rokkits for utility. But here's a question - do they still get +1 to hit from a freeboota trukk? Even though they loose the clan keyword?

- Freeboota meganobz. No rule collisions here. All kombi-rokkits, without hesitation. The heavy -1 to hit gets offset by this amazing clan bonus and you can go up to 4+ if other units kill enough. You are much more autonomous, no long-ass-charges but you can get obsec for 1cp. You can also camp on a midfield objective w/o a trukk (probably what you're gona do anyways - even with trukknob disembark+charge).

- Goff meganobz. The choppiest ones. I'm not gona use them now as I don't believe our choppingess can go toe to toe with what other codexes have. Mostly cause we can't realisticslly counter fight last time on the enemy big hitters in mellee. So, dark eldar, dark angels, even death guard are not gona be good targets for meganobz. And if a 350+ pt squad that also needs a ton of cp and/ortransports/babysitters to do the job can't deal with ~ the same amount op enemy mellee hitters...why bother.

with kulture i would say only snakebite meganobs fill that role.

2+ save with automatic failure for 1-3 wound rolls,

put 2 (or more) of them in a truk with 8 (or less) other cheaper models (burnaboys maybe) that will eat the explosion if it blows- use careen to send it towards the enemy

**Psychocouac**

Goonhammer review: https://www.goonhammer.com/codex-orks-9th-edition-the-goonhammer-review/

**XC18**

Afrodactyl wrote:

Both Specialist Mobs and Kustom Jobs state;

"If your army is Battle-forged and includes any Orks Detachments (excluding Auxiliary Support, Super-Heavy Auxiliary or Fortification Network Detachments)...."

For me, this is simply a clarification that the rule is still valid even if you have an SH auxiliary detachment that is not Ork.
But nothing prevent Ork Nauts to be specialist or have a kustom job, even if it is in a SH aux detachment.

**pepi55**

TedNugent wrote:
deffrekka wrote:

Battlewagons feel best unarmed, your paying 135pts for something that might not use its Deff Rolla, or even get to choose what it uses its Rolla against if it gets charged by units it doesnt want to fight. A Battlewagon is more about getting your unit where it needs to go safely compared to a Trukk or two. With T8 and a 3+ save then ramshackle, it should get where it needs to go, however the meta is swimming in Melta/DLances/CLas that its still gonna go down like a sack of gob squigs. I think when these kind of weapons "finally" get brought in line with the rest of reality (costing them right) we might see Battlewagons hit the field. A Trukk is just enough, it gets you where you need to go, a Battlewagon just delievers a larger number of that unit or provides more room for cushioning against explosions (10 Grots).

A Squiggoth is a better gun platform for the likes of Bustas and Gitz, Trukks get you their faster and cheaper, a Killtank pulls double duty and a Killrig has the added benefit of more melee and also being a Beastsnagga. I dont think Battlewagons are bad, they just need a more chilled out AT meta than the others, its now amazing vs those str 5/6/7 damage 2/D3 shots with its improved armour save, but we arent in that state right now. Maybe when T'au and Eldar get redone as they are largely a str 6/7 army, but I imagine when Fusion Blasters/Guns and Railguns/BLances get the Melta DLance treatment, those types of weapons we see from them now with subside for these new AT ones.

Okay, so I'd be paying 135 points for a naked T8 transport that does nothing. Why wouldn't I just buy two trukks instead at that point? At least then I'd get two big shootas.

Again, Trukks literally are not faster than a Battlewagon, it's literally 12/8/6 on the Trukk and 12/9/6 on the Battlewagon. The Battlewagon is literally the same speed until it degrades, then it's actually 9" versus 8" on the Trukk.

My problem is, when you're talking about troops, even S5 troops that have a 6+ invulnerable save, they're going to squish when poked when they get to their destination regardless, after they deliver a bevvy of S5 attacks.
Why would I want a 70 point brick that does nothing once I get there? What is the point of getting there with a 10 man unit of boyz when the box does very little in combat other than absorb an overwatch that may or may not happen anyway?
It makes sense for something like Meganobz or nobz that actually have enough hitting power on their own to justify the 200+ points of that unit.

With Trukk Boyz you're literally paying 170 points just to deliver a basic troops unit to the front line where they will evaporate after a turn and leave the Trukk sitting there wondering what it's doing there.

Also, if melta is going to annihilate a battlewagon, why is it not going to do the exact same thing to a trukk? Admittedly it may be more efficient in that regard as melta doesn't differentiate between a 3+ and a 4+ or T6 and T7, which is the argument I'd be more receptive to. In that case, why take buggies? Or Killa Kans? Or Deff Dreads? Or Morkanauts? Or a Kill Rig? Or Stompas? Etc.

Someone made the exact same point when I brought up how strong the statline of a Squighog unit is. Oh, they're going to be blown off the board in one turn. Okay, and what isn't at that point? If everything is going to instantly evaporate in one turn of shooting, doesn't that mean everything is equally awful?
They're all going to instantly blow up from melta from the sky. Or, maybe a handful of them will be blown up, and the rest of them get to do work on the board.

There used to also be an idea of target saturation, e.g. go for broke on one thing. If you have volume of high T vehicles, you could conceivably overwhelm the opponent's anti tank and increase the chances of getting several across the board. I just think a Battlewagon is more efficient in that if one gets to the enemy's deployment zone, it can actually kill something.

I just basically came to the realization that a BW with a rolla is roughly the cost of two trukks. And it does pretty much the same thing (e.g. get from point A to point B), is roughly as durable and has multi damage close combat capability that Trukks lack. That's all.

The way you describe it, your argument makes it sound like defrekka is using the "dies to removal" argument often used in MtG...

Anyway, why are big shootas bad actually? Bad meta or simply terrible stats? Arent they decent vs skitarii?

**kingbbobb**

XC18 wrote:
Afrodactyl wrote:

Both Specialist Mobs and Kustom Jobs state;

"If your army is Battle-forged and includes any Orks Detachments (excluding Auxiliary Support, Super-Heavy Auxiliary or Fortification Network Detachments)...."

For me, this is simply a clarification that the rule is still valid even if you have an SH auxiliary detachment that is not Ork.
But nothing prevent Ork Nauts to be specialist or have a kustom job, even if it is in a SH aux detachment.

i will let you know when i get my book on monday

**pepi55**

Yeah but kanz can take 3 at least

**kingbbobb**

pepi55 wrote:
Yeah but kanz can take 3 at least

i deleted my post because i miss read it lol

kans are too expensive when compared to other shooting options like the buggies

2x 40= 80

80 = cost of 1 booster blaster which will do more damage and survive longer, has access to kulture, stratagems and stuff.

kans for me look poor value when put next to the buggies

Automatically Appended Next Post:

pepi55 wrote:
Yeah but kanz can take 3 at least

unless i am missing something kans can only take 1 big shooter?

**TedNugent**

One other thing that I just want to point out because it is an annoyance, KFF used to give the invulnerable save while embarked. It no longer does this. Not a big deal because it's only a 6++ but another one of those painful oversights.

**pepi55**

kingbbobb wrote:
pepi55 wrote:
Yeah but kanz can take 3 at least

i deleted my post because i miss read it lol

kans are too expensive when compared to other shooting options like the buggies

2x 40= 80

80 = cost of 1 booster blaster which will do more damage and survive longer, has access to kulture, stratagems and stuff.

kans for me look poor value when put next to the buggies

Automatically Appended Next Post:

pepi55 wrote:
Yeah but kanz can take 3 at least

unless i am missing something kans can only take 1 big shooter?

I meant in a whole unit. Man, its still a bummer that kanz are still useless in this edition :( kinda killed my hype for playing the new orks and im looking for new games which are compatible with 40k minis but more "balanced" but thats a different discussion.

**Kebabcito**

KFF is a meme. For those points you can get 10 more snaggas with passive 6++ rofl.

10 boyz with klaw 100
10 snagga with klaw 110

For 10 points, you can improve your boyz to "Snagga Boyz", with a 6++, +1 hit to vehicles, access to top stratagems, +1 to hit with the klaw.

Thinking this way, no reason to play boyz again. If you want to max greentide, you put 11 gretchins in both sides of your deployment zone and you start 15-0 for 110 points.

**gungo**

Afrodactyl wrote:
XC18 wrote:
Something I'd like to clarify, I have read somewhere that our Nauts couldn't got kustom job or be specialist mob easily. but is that correct ?
Is there a rule somewhere about that ?

Both Specialist Mobs and Kustom Jobs state;

"If your army is Battle-forged and includes any Orks Detachments (excluding Auxiliary Support, Super-Heavy Auxiliary or Fortification Network Detachments)...."

I read this as "don't count Stompas/Nauts/Bunkas when checking, you need to have other models as well", because Nauts are specifically mentioned by Big Krumpaz as a Specialist Mob and Stompamatic Pistons as a Kustom Job.

Based on that, I would also suggest that Nauts and Stompas are eligible for the More Dakka, Shokka Hull and the Gorkanaut an use the Extra Kustom Weapons on it's KMB.

This is assuming the rules for big krumpaz and pistons wasn’t just meant for a super heavy detachment.
I’m not saying your wrong. But it’s doubtful Gw meant the superheavy auxiliary detachment only as a partial exclusion that goes away once you include another viable detachment but I hope you are right.

Does any other faction allow thier superheavy auxiliary detachment to benefit from regiment/chapter/clan/forgeworld/etc rules?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
So far we have 2 viable not necessarily competitive lists?
the stormboy/kommando/squigrider (mostly goff) spam will be a popular list.
And buggy/Dakkajet/warbikers speed waagh list (maybe badmoon)

**tulun**

Way too early to say.

I'm sure the obsec heavy / denial list will have play in the right meta -- Take Freebootas relic, then a butt load of Deathskulls infantry and just bite and hold the middle.

**TedNugent**

Kebabcito wrote:
KFF is a meme. For those points you can get 10 more snaggas with passive 6++ rofl.

10 boyz with klaw 100
10 snagga with klaw 110

For 10 points, you can improve your boyz to "Snagga Boyz", with a 6++, +1 hit to vehicles, access to top stratagems, +1 to hit with the klaw.

Thinking this way, no reason to play boyz again. If you want to max greentide, you put 11 gretchins in both sides of your deployment zone and you start 15-0 for 110 points.

Another + side to the Snaggas is that you can fill out a battalion with a Painboss for the HQ. Then those snaggas are 6++/6+++.

E.g. Squigosaur/Beast boss, Painboss, Snaggas x 3. 505 points or 715 points with trukks for this battalion with basic beastboss then off to the races.

Compare to [mandatory HQ] for battalion for regular gits. That's 85 + 30 for the KFF MA Mek, 90 for the warboss and 300 for the boyz + 210 for the trukk, or 715.

So for the same points you're literally getting S5/6++/6+++ compared to da orks at S4/6++. Fail.

**kingbbobb**

TedNugent wrote:
Kebabcito wrote:
KFF is a meme. For those points you can get 10 more snaggas with passive 6++ rofl.

10 boyz with klaw 100
10 snagga with klaw 110

For 10 points, you can improve your boyz to "Snagga Boyz", with a 6++, +1 hit to vehicles, access to top stratagems, +1 to hit with the klaw.

Thinking this way, no reason to play boyz again. If you want to max greentide, you put 11 gretchins in both sides of your deployment zone and you start 15-0 for 110 points.

Another + side to the Snaggas is that you can fill out a battalion with a Painboss for the HQ. Then those snaggas are 6++/6+++.

E.g. Squigosaur/Beast boss, Painboss, Snaggas x 3. 505 points or 715 points with trukks for this battalion with basic beastboss then off to the races.

Compare to [mandatory HQ] for battalion for regular gits. That's 85 + 30 for the KFF MA Mek, 90 for the warboss and 300 for the boyz + 210 for the trukk, or 715.

So for the same points you're literally getting S5/6++/6+++ compared to da orks at S4/6++. Fail.

The only thing that boyz have that beast snaggas don't is the tank busta keyword for the stratagem, the ability to take 30 models per unit (a liabilityif you ask me), the ability to swap a weapon for eg rocket per 10 models to potentially take 3 rockets, dakka shootas and stick bombs

So if your taking a mele army, snagga all the way,
For shooting, boys might have the edge as snaggas rely on pistols and a thump gun per 10 models.
I would probably still take snaggas xD....

**Madjob**

kingbbobb wrote:
TedNugent wrote:
Kebabcito wrote:
KFF is a meme. For those points you can get 10 more snaggas with passive 6++ rofl.

10 boyz with klaw 100
10 snagga with klaw 110

For 10 points, you can improve your boyz to "Snagga Boyz", with a 6++, +1 hit to vehicles, access to top stratagems, +1 to hit with the klaw.

Thinking this way, no reason to play boyz again. If you want to max greentide, you put 11 gretchins in both sides of your deployment zone and you start 15-0 for 110 points.

Another + side to the Snaggas is that you can fill out a battalion with a Painboss for the HQ. Then those snaggas are 6++/6+++.

E.g. Squigosaur/Beast boss, Painboss, Snaggas x 3. 505 points or 715 points with trukks for this battalion with basic beastboss then off to the races.

Compare to [mandatory HQ] for battalion for regular gits. That's 85 + 30 for the KFF MA Mek, 90 for the warboss and 300 for the boyz + 210 for the trukk, or 715.

So for the same points you're literally getting S5/6++/6+++ compared to da orks at S4/6++. Fail.

The only thing that boyz have that beast snaggas don't is the tank busta keyword for the stratagem, the ability to take 30 models per unit (a liabilityif you ask me), the ability to swap a weapon for eg rocket per 10 models to potentially take 3 rockets, dakka shootas and stick bombs

So if your taking a mele army, snagga all the way,
For shooting, boys might have the edge as snaggas rely on pistols and a thump gun per 10 models.
I would probably still take snaggas xD....

And better loadout options for the Nob leader, and access to Trukkboyz.

**kingbbobb**

I don’t know any reason why I can't use careen as a replacement for a flying head butt?

This is probably better as i get to use my planes right up to when they die before ploughing them into the enemy if they explode lol

all it says is ork vehicle for 1 cp (2 for wagons and titanics)

I am still trying to break the game XD

admittedly the damage from explosion would only be d3 mortals and the chance of exploding is less , but would still be funny XD

**TedNugent**

Madjob wrote:

And better loadout options for the Nob leader, and access to Trukkboyz.

trukkboyz you can't use RAW, would probably be better off using with nobz or meganobz anyway with 0-1 cap, and as far as loadout options, hard to fault a 2+S -2 AP 2D free snippa. PK has higher strength, but with the -1 to hit it's only slightly better for 10 points versus 0. The big choppa is clearly inferior to the snippa since it's the same with only -1 AP. Power stabba is overpriced, only uses base strength and D1 so it's clearly inferior to the snippa.

Take it how you like but the free snippa is one of the best things about the snaggas. It reduces the cost difference between the two units by 5-10 points and performs as well. Benefits from Goff +1 S and the +1 to hit aura too.

**Jidmah**

kingbbobb wrote:
I don’t know any reason why I can't use careen as a replacement for a flying head butt?

This is probably better as i get to use my planes right up to when they die before ploughing them into the enemy if they explode lol

all it says is ork vehicle for 1 cp (2 for wagons and titanics)

I am still trying to break the game XD

admittedly the damage from explosion would only be d3 mortals and the chance of exploding is less , but would still be funny XD

The stratagem requires the vehicle to explode on its own.

If you are looking for a flying 'eadbut replacement, check the blitza bommer.

**kingbbobb**

The tank busta startagem is really interesting, it is used in the fight phase in melee not the shooting phase.

you attack with 1 melee attack and if you hit presumable on a (2+ with all the +1 to hit buffs) you cause 2d3 mortals on a vehicle

this makes kommandos really dangerous to vehicles as they have access to bomb squigs in the shooting phase and access to tank buster strategem

potentially causing 3d3 mortals to vehicles in a single turn

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jidmah wrote:
kingbbobb wrote:
I don’t know any reason why I can't use careen as a replacement for a flying head butt?

This is probably better as i get to use my planes right up to when they die before ploughing them into the enemy if they explode lol

all it says is ork vehicle for 1 cp (2 for wagons and titanics)

I am still trying to break the game XD

admittedly the damage from explosion would only be d3 mortals and the chance of exploding is less , but would still be funny XD

The stratagem requires the vehicle to explode on its own.

If you are looking for a flying 'eadbut replacement, check the blitza bommer.

yeah but in my games most of my vehicles explode .....i gaurentee it lol

**koooaei**

So, on a second thought kff mek is really great in a buggy list. Yeah, he is kinda wasted for troop lists but they are weak anyway.

Just think of it. A wall of cheap but extremely shooty w8-9 vehicles, all with ramshackle, -1 to hit and 5++. All for just 4 cp.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And you need a 2d HQ anyway. You can always give him a shiny shoota or a mega armor relic.
And he's bs4 base. 3+ hit freeboota shiny shoota mek with a kff all just for 115 pts. He's a must. You need 2d HQ anywayz.

Yeah, 4 movement but it's an oversight, will get fixed soon.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
He also patches up your buggies. I'd rate him A+ in a vehicle list.

**Emicrania**

I do think that until the war rig and the boss on Squig comes out, we haven´t seen the best units out yet. So untill than I´m leaning towards a sort of beta strike list, trying to get the most out of the free redeploy from BA and ObSec from DS. I had a game yesterday and felt kind of meh, so I feel I need more synergies here. Any input is welcome:

Spoiler:

**Psychocouac**

Game with the new orks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqGf9-RrTns

**kingbbobb**

Emicrania wrote:
I do think that until the war rig and the boss on Squig comes out, we haven´t seen the best units out yet. So untill than I´m leaning towards a sort of beta strike list, trying to get the most out of the free redeploy from BA and ObSec from DS. I had a game yesterday and felt kind of meh, so I feel I need more synergies here. Any input is welcome:

they are out dude, click the link

https://imgur.com/a/YC4UNqS

Spoiler:

**Grimskul**

kingbbobb wrote:
Emicrania wrote:
I do think that until the war rig and the boss on Squig comes out, we haven´t seen the best units out yet. So untill than I´m leaning towards a sort of beta strike list, trying to get the most out of the free redeploy from BA and ObSec from DS. I had a game yesterday and felt kind of meh, so I feel I need more synergies here. Any input is welcome:

they are out dude, click the link

https://imgur.com/a/YC4UNqS

Spoiler:

I think he may be referring to the actual model releases, since its not super easy to proxy on TTS right now given how new it is and it may be hard to effectively counts-as for them physically speaking for in-person games.

**koooaei**

Does blood axe warlord trait allow to redeploy after it's determined who goes 1st?
Cause if it is, some blood axe boyz are gona be not only a scoring or betting on 1st turn tool but a safe one that will add the needed mellee pressure on a flank turn 1 while buggies roll and score.

**BC_Big_Chief**

Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but looking at the spiked ram for the Scrapjet it has to be a typo. If you charge, it says for each model of a unit you are within 1" you role a D6 and for every 4+ you do D3 mortal wounds. So on average if I charge a unit of 10 and I get 5 4+ rolls then I do 5D3 mortals? Can't be right...

**Acehilator**

BC_Big_Chief wrote:
Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but looking at the spiked ram for the Scrapjet it has to be a typo. If you charge, it says for each model of a unit you are within 1" you role a D6 and for every 4+ you do D3 mortal wounds. So on average if I charge a unit of 10 and I get 5 4+ rolls then I do 5D3 mortals? Can't be right...

For the... fourth time, I think? It's for every model in the buggy unit, not in the unit being attacked.

**Psychocouac**

Yes otherwise it would be the most broken ability in 40K. Ever. ^^ Imagine charging with ONE scrapjet in a unit of 30 [insertherewhatyouwant] you would be rolling 30 dice to do on a 4+ 30D3 mortal wound. And rolling 180 dices for a unit of 6? Dealing in average 180 MW on a poor thing.

I would take only scrapjet in my army. Don't care to run with 0 CP at all. xD