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pepi55 wrote:
I just noticed that dread saws are no longer a thing on deff dreads..... do they now count as klaws or is it remodelling time?

count as klaws. The same for killa kanz drilla and saws also count as klaws. They even posted a picture with a killa kan with a drilla in the codex, but the title said: Killa kan with klaw.

pepi55 wrote:
I just noticed that dread saws are no longer a thing on deff dreads..... do they now count as klaws or is it remodelling time?

This was only a thing for the 8th edition codex - the probably realized that it added little and just cause problems for people who build their dreads years ago and axed the whole idea. For half the bits you can't really tell whether it's a klaw or a saw anyways.

Hello, new player here...

On the discussion of MANZ, correct me if i am wrong, but they can use claw and combi-skorcha weapon at same time?
They also got a cost reduction if am right to 40 since claw is free? Is this right?
Also their CORE keyword so they can be Da Jump from weird boy?

So you could possibly table them in same way as dreads? Jump them and telly in scrapjets for support?

Forceride wrote:
Hello, new player here...

On the discussion of MANZ, correct me if i am wrong, but they can use claw and combi-skorcha weapon at same time?
They also got a cost reduction if am right to 40 since claw is free? Is this right?
Also their CORE keyword so they can be Da Jump from weird boy?

1) Correct, you get a klaw and a kombi weapon or kustom shoota
2) 35 with kustom shoota/klaw, 40 with kombi-rokkit and 45 with skorcha
3) Correct.

So you could possibly table them in same way as dreads? Jump them and telly in scrapjets for support?

MANz can't make use of ramming speed, which is fairly essential to make reliable charges from deep strike.

Hum, if understand correctly, that would make the Deff Dreads also unreliable since they separate for purposes of the ramming strat? (only one of them would be eligible if read this right)

Being true, a bit of a bummer :( since i wanted to use dreads or MANZ in some way cause i like them. But the players i play locally are really good and they will punish me lol.

MANz are a decent unit though, just not for ramming into the thick of the enemy lines.

You deploy them on the board close to a center objective and then just move them there to kill whatever is holding them and take the objective from them.

In 9th the enemy is no longer hiding 24" away from you, they have to enter the midfield or they lose. Even slow units can just walk up to them and smack them in T2, against fast armies like drukhari, you are lucky to not be in combat T1.

Yeah the mission design helps them to get somewhere useful.
Sadly the only way to buff their charge is if you get a warboss with the Follow me lads WL Trait in first.

I hope they FAQ trukk boys / specialist mobs to get their Trait on top of their clan keyword.
In that case you could charge with an trukk boy warboss, da jump the MANz and get an 8" charge.
Hopefully it's not something like they are just allowed to embark on trukks with the "wrong" army clan keyword because right now they don't get to use all the auras etc. from non-trukk boy units. :(

Alternative take would be to tellyport trukk meganobs and charge after the trukkboy warboss, in which case you could take 7+ MANz if up to 6 in a trukk isn't enough for you.

@forceride: You could mix dreads and just charge 1 of them. Take 1 with 4 claws and use ramming speed on him while another one with 4 blastas stays back shooting.
Sadly that means he can't get that sweet kustom job for 4 extra shots then as it is only allowed on single Dread units.
If you put them in strategic reserve you could go for 2 x 1 though to get the custom Job.

Beardedragon wrote:
count as klaws. The same for killa kanz drilla and saws also count as klaws. They even posted a picture with a killa kan with a drilla in the codex, but the title said: Killa kan with klaw.

Jidmah wrote:
This was only a thing for the 8th edition codex - the probably realized that it added little and just cause problems for people who build their dreads years ago and axed the whole idea. For half the bits you can't really tell whether it's a klaw or a saw anyways.

Oh wow Im actually a fan of this since I always had issues with choosing weapons.

pepi55 wrote:
Oh wow Im actually a fan of this since I always had issues with choosing weapons.

I actually spend a lot of time asking around for extra bits because I wanted mine to have the same weapon on every arm, so 8th accidentially hard-locked one of my dreads into klaws and one into saws. Not the end of the world, but annoying nonetheless.

For kanz it always felt like the different weapons didn't matter at all but just slowed down combat. Once again, most of mine were equipped with klaws and drills, because I used the saws to kitbash buzzsaws for my koptas

So i just glued together my first squighog boy.

Im really surprised how tiny they are compared to what i would expect. I mean beasts of burden tend to be much larger than their masters, so i gotta say, i expected the squighogs to be double the size.

Looks weird from a sculpt point of view, but great from a gameplay point of view as its easier to maneuver.

I also expected the nob on smasha squigs, squig, to be slightly larger.

Im struggling with a walker list at 500pts...

A walker list would benefit from a big mek and since the KFF big mek isnt worth it, I went with a MA big mek+KFF. The big mek should be included in the list so that it repairs the vehicles, but when it does that, there are not enough bodies for objective holding and screening...
The kanz will be on a TP waiting to ramming speed into a squishy target.
I dont know if I can take relics on anything other than my warlord, but I assumed I can so I put the redder paint on the deff dread. The 12" movement with ramming speed and a Waaagh amounts in my mind to something dead the first turn.


The MA mek that doesnt know what he wants to do combined with 45 points that cant be spent on more bodies means that this list just wont do.

This is my attempt at "fixing" it but maybe some of you have a better idea? Not sure if the Klaw is worth taking without da killa klaw relic...
Weirdboy is there because I will need a way to TP units everywhere with this amount of bodies.

 koooaei wrote:


As for bikers, if you're not hiding them t1 and loose the roll-off, they're dead. Cause if you're running 9,the opponent knows you're gona use some shenanigans to make them deadlier and it's easier for him to just kill a bunch and than force morale checks that will also inflict a couple more casualties. So, if you're running 9,better have a plan to protect them t1. Currently, tellyportin' them with a wierdboy for a 1st turn dakka gun barrage on a flank is a legit tactic.

Problem with teleporting 9 bikes is their huge footprint, which is even larger than 10 meganobz. And unless the weirdboy has some other purpose than teleporting those bikes he's a pure tax. 9 bikes cost 235 points and can soak a lot of shots, don't forget that muti wound weapons (even the most common D2 weapons) can get some overkill results as bikes only have 3W. The key here is to avoid units that aren't expendable. If the opponent kills the bikes no worry, something else with the same value would be alive. IMHO -1 to hit and terrain should give enough protection. At worst there's still the 5++ from the wazbom that can be considered as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pepi55 wrote:


The MA mek that doesnt know what he wants to do combined with 45 points that cant be spent on more bodies means that this list just wont do.

I think the Big Mek in megarmor can be nice with pk, kustom shoota and tellyport blasta. Then give him the relic Dead Shiny Shoota and the Opportunist trait if you're Deathskulls. 95 points for a T5 2+ dude armed with a klaw, an anti tank weapon and that can fire 14/10 heavy bolter shots at BS4+ sounds nice. Can repair vehicles as well. I'd definitely avoid the KFF, a point sink with little benefit.

Well, if you're taking the mega armor Big Mek already, you can actually make a better argument for taking the KFF if you're using ghetto boyz than you could otherwise. It's 30 points, which is the cost difference between 10 Boyz with a klaw and Snagga Boyz.

That said, yeah, Dead Shiny Shoota averages 2 dead marines at 9" and the Blasta averages almost a dead marine at 12". With Deathskulls that is in fact about 5-6 targetable wounds average, and you could reroll a hit to wound and roll at BS4. Plus he's cheaper than he would be by the KFF by 20 points. And he'd have objective secured behind 2+/5T/6W. I could certainly see the appeal. He's clearly the ideal platform for Dead Shiny Shoota.

He definitely does more damage in the shooting phase with a tellyport blasta and a Dead Shiny Shoota than he could in close combat. Even with Da Killa Klaw and +1 attack with a WL trait he'd still be at 2 dead marines in CC and less on average than Da Shiny Shoota. With a PK and base attacks he can level about a marine each round of combat, so that's an appealing combination by comparison.

I was still considering building him with a KFF and something like Da Krushin' Armor and Proper Killy. That would give him 4 A with -4 AP PK and 2 mortal wounds behind a 1+/4++ and still leave DKK for da warboss. He has a few interesting builds as a sidekick to da boss. Maybe magnetize the KFF and blasta and play around. The BS4 is still probably the most intriguing thing. With Freebootas he could be BS3 which would pair nicely with both ranged options.

 Dendarien wrote:
What is everyone thinking for the best size for biker units? 4 or 5 seems good to avoid morale and footprint issues.

I'd just go for squads of 3 unless you're hurting for slots,

MANz should walk or ride the transport. They have to push himself into center of the battlefield /objectivea as soon and as much as they can.

Dropping them somewhere in T2/T3 could be an option, but I' ve found it little bit uneffective.

Does anybody know when Battlescribe will be updated with the new Ork codex? It is possible to see the status somewhere?
With all these rules and exceptions in list building, just using a codex and notepad will likely result in errors.

 Bonde wrote:
Does anybody know when Battlescribe will be updated with the new Ork codex? It is possible to see the status somewhere?
With all these rules and exceptions in list building, just using a codex and notepad will likely result in errors.

Personally I've just updated my local data repository with updated statlines and a few points but I'm just using an excel sheet to calculate points.

Battlescribe ATM is only useful for the TTS gimmicks like painting squads to differentiate them, in any other case just stick with Pen&Paper, you're gonna have to check the codex frequently for rules and stratagems anyway as it stands.

I got my book woop woop lol

interesting there is a nice cool rules reference and glossary at the back for quick explanations

 Bonde wrote:
Does anybody know when Battlescribe will be updated with the new Ork codex? It is possible to see the status somewhere?
With all these rules and exceptions in list building, just using a codex and notepad will likely result in errors.

Dunno, but I'm really not sure how crazy codex orks actually is in that regard.

1 warboss per detachment, and you can take a couple named characters in any faction. That's about it...

 the_scotsman wrote:

 Bonde wrote:
Does anybody know when Battlescribe will be updated with the new Ork codex? It is possible to see the status somewhere?
With all these rules and exceptions in list building, just using a codex and notepad will likely result in errors.

Dunno, but I'm really not sure how crazy codex orks actually is in that regard.

1 warboss per detachment, and you can take a couple named characters in any faction. That's about it...

I see your point. I think it was the whole specialist mobs part that confused me when the information was only half-leaked

This is the answer of GW to complains about absenting ork codex in the app.

The main release seems to be really in Orktober and I mean it.

Speaking of specialist mobs, it's probably worth going thru and pointing out real quick which ones are best to include in your detachments if you're just not sure:

1) Trukk boyz. To me this is generally always a good thing to think about, turns our somewhat anemic Troops slot into something that can project a very credible turn 1 threat. I wouldn't always slap one in there, for example if you're going for a turn 2 tempo hard-hitting goffs list it won't help you much, but trukk boyz/trukk nobz are generally a solid pick in a number of situations.

2) Pyromaniacs Burna Boyz. Pyromaniacs is a nice one because it boosts up a unit that doesn't really benefit from basically any kultur normally besides maybe Deffskullz. An 11ppm model with a flamer that can never roll below a 3 and has easy access to open-topped transport is just extremely good value.

3) Flyboyz if your clan isn't Freebootas or Snakebites. Offense>Defense generally in 40k so if you are going Freebootas that will probably outperform Flyboyz on your plane, but otherwise this is a good way to get a kultur on to a model that generally wouldnt' benefit much from it. with Snakebites Flyboyz is just basically going to be a side-grade so it's probably better to pick something else, both are minor defensive boosts.

4) 'Orrible Gitz honestly isn't that bad if you're just out of ideas. It's an almost zero-investment way to make a unit of grots just a tiny bit more annoying.

5) Boom Boyz on Tankbustas isn't too bad, particuarly if you're going for a melee kultur and want to have a little means to remove a threatening vehicle at range. Pairs nice with something like a green tide list where you wont have a ton of antitank power. Side note: Hilariously you can take Boom Boyz on Blitza-Bommers and Meks, which....have...no blast weapons.....

6) Sneaky Gitz/Madboyz/Big Krumpas: I just wouldn't bother personally.

 Tomsug wrote:
This is the answer of GW to complains about absenting ork codex in the app.

The main release in Orktober and I mean it. So be happy schizophrenic orks and play the old codex next 2-3 months...

Anyway, very interesting publishing plans. What is the pourpose? No idea....

The purpose is to show time and time again that as a company they should've gone under years and years ago but thanks to addicts and ridiclolous marketing strategies they still manage to float.

I'd like to point out that discussing GW's business practices is against this thread's rules. Feel free to create a separate one on this topic in the general forum or pick any of the existing ones.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Speaking of specialist mobs, it's probably worth going thru and pointing out real quick which ones are best to include in your detachments if you're just not sure:

1) Trukk boyz. To me this is generally always a good thing to think about, turns our somewhat anemic Troops slot into something that can project a very credible turn 1 threat. I wouldn't always slap one in there, for example if you're going for a turn 2 tempo hard-hitting goffs list it won't help you much, but trukk boyz/trukk nobz are generally a solid pick in a number of situations.

2) Pyromaniacs Burna Boyz. Pyromaniacs is a nice one because it boosts up a unit that doesn't really benefit from basically any kultur normally besides maybe Deffskullz. An 11ppm model with a flamer that can never roll below a 3 and has easy access to open-topped transport is just extremely good value.

3) Flyboyz if your clan isn't Freebootas or Snakebites. Offense>Defense generally in 40k so if you are going Freebootas that will probably outperform Flyboyz on your plane, but otherwise this is a good way to get a kultur on to a model that generally wouldnt' benefit much from it. with Snakebites Flyboyz is just basically going to be a side-grade so it's probably better to pick something else, both are minor defensive boosts.

4) 'Orrible Gitz honestly isn't that bad if you're just out of ideas. It's an almost zero-investment way to make a unit of grots just a tiny bit more annoying.

5) Boom Boyz on Tankbustas isn't too bad, particuarly if you're going for a melee kultur and want to have a little means to remove a threatening vehicle at range. Pairs nice with something like a green tide list where you wont have a ton of antitank power. Side note: Hilariously you can take Boom Boyz on Blitza-Bommers and Meks, which....have...no blast weapons.....

6) Sneaky Gitz/Madboyz/Big Krumpas: I just wouldn't bother personally.

You can make use of Big Krumpas if you decide to use a non goffs klankulture, +1 to hit on meganobs/deffdreads and putting them on a teleporter could be useful. No da jump as that is clan locked, but the teleporter is not clan locked

 Jidmah wrote:
I'd like to point out that discussing GW's business practices is against this thread's rules. Feel free to create a separate one on this topic in the general forum or pick any of the existing ones.

Forgot about that, I'll just change the subject.

And i'll do that theorizing what the best option for a T2 Tellyporta RAM would be.

I think the 3 options we have at the moment are the BoneBreaka/Kill Rig, 6 Killa Kanz and 6 Deffkoptas.

The Kill Rig brings a few auto-hitting lascannons (assuming it succeded in casting it's powers) wich brings it's ranged output to equalize the damage inflicted by the other two options (since open-topped won't help much with him only carrying Beast Snaggas) while the melee output of 10 Attacks with damage 2/3 and 4 Choppa slaps.

Killa Kanz will bring a frontload of 30 Big Shoota Shots (assuming getting within 18" of a viable target isn't an issue) for 240 points or 6d3 Rokkits for 330 points total. I'm not considering the Skorchas because with their large bases it could be an issue to get them all in range of a viable (aka INFANTRY target without messing up the follow-up charge). They top this with a Melee Output of 24 4+ S8 -3 D3 Attacks.

Deffkoptas for their somewhat hefty (by ork's standards) 300 Points unload a whopping 12d3 rokkits (Not sure about sidegrading to a KMB+bomb for this setup) and then follow them up with 36 Attacks (FIFTY-FOUR during a "vanilla" Whaaaag!). This melee output gets even sillier with Goff Kulture making them S6 (a lovely number not just for mirror matches but to deal with Gravis Marines) and exploding 5/6.

All in all the Kill Rig is the cheaper and surely effective option at wrecking hard/medium targets while Deffkoptas will benefit greatly from almost all kultures and can help out with both light infantry and hard targets.

Personally I do think that the higher price tag is in line with the 4CP Investment for the combo. Poor Killa Kanz are a victim of circumstances but can still pack a punch (especially if you were already bringing a Whaaaag! Banner in the area anyway.) and aside from morale they're probably the "tankier" option merely because of their 30 wounds split around multiple models with a 3+ save.

So this codex has finally convinced me to start a Waaaaaagh and buy my first Orks.

At this point I'm pretty much committed to Bad Moons because the colour scheme looks like it'll be interesting to paint, and fluffwise it favours a lot of my favourite ork models like mega-armour & walkers. As they're all useful units the bulk of the army will come from 2 (or 3) Combat Patrol boxes when they're eventually released. The new Deffkoptas seem like a solid pick and should fit well with the clan trait, Deff Dreads are always cool, while any spare Warbosses should convert easily into extra MANz.

With that in mind, aside from some MANZ which units should I look at buying to start on while waiting for the patrol box to come out? While I'm not aiming to field a top-tier competitive list here, at the same time I want to avoid wasting hours painting up something like 30 grotz that will never contribute anything useful. Which do you think are the trap units to avoid in this book, and what else would work well with Bad Moons that I can go buy this week? Battlewagons? Killa Kans? Lootas?

Tell me where to spend my teef!

 xttz wrote:
At this point I'm pretty much committed to Bad Moons because the colour scheme looks like it'll be interesting to paint

If you've never had the pleasure to paint Yellow may god have mercy upon your soul, for you simply don't know what a pain it is.

 xttz wrote:
With that in mind... which units should I look at buying to start on while waiting for the patrol box to come out?

Gameplay Wise Bad Moonz are in a "meh" spot because their rules aren't that great.
Lootas are in a terrible spot but could be "playable" in a Bad moonz detachment. Deff Dreads don't really benefit from the Kulture while MANZ only benefit in something you're not taking them for anyway (shooting).
Warbikers, Dakkajets and a Big Mek with Tellyporta Blasta + Dead Shiny Shoota are probably the ones who'll benefit the most from the kulture, while a lot of other units either don't care about the kulture trait or are locked away from the klan's stratagem. Freebotaz are simply a better option for unleashing Dakka ATM.

 xttz wrote:
So this codex has finally convinced me to start a Waaaaaagh and buy my first Orks.

At this point I'm pretty much committed to Bad Moons because the colour scheme looks like it'll be interesting to paint, and fluffwise it favours a lot of my favourite ork models like mega-armour & walkers. As they're all useful units the bulk of the army will come from 2 (or 3) Combat Patrol boxes when they're eventually released. The new Deffkoptas seem like a solid pick and should fit well with the clan trait, Deff Dreads are always cool, while any spare Warbosses should convert easily into extra MANz.

With that in mind, aside from some MANZ which units should I look at buying to start on while waiting for the patrol box to come out? While I'm not aiming to field a top-tier competitive list here, at the same time I want to avoid wasting hours painting up something like 30 grotz that will never contribute anything useful. Which do you think are the trap units to avoid in this book, and what else would work well with Bad Moons that I can go buy this week? Battlewagons? Killa Kans? Lootas?

Tell me where to spend my teef!

Bad Moonz' favorite two units are the Tankbusta and the Flash Git IMO. The mega-boss you'll be getting with their CP box is probably their best HQ (synergizing well with The Best Armor Teef Can Buy) and the best unit to use their signature stratagem is probably Lootas.

The strictly most competitive setup is probably Bad Moonz as allies, with a patrol that allows you to bring some Bad Moonz and another allied Goffs detachment to bring your melee units that you're going to use with your standard Waagh, but you're not giving up *that* much by sticking to all BM.

My starting setup would be:

Patrol
Megaboss
10 boyz (Trukk Boyz specialists) in a trukk
Dread with 2 Rokkits 2 Claws
3 Koptas with all rokkits

And from this point you could use some more anti-MEQ or anti-horde. Adding a Boomdakka Snazzwagon would probably be a solid pick for anti-MEQ, or some Lootas and another Trukk wouldn't be bad. Eventually you'll want to get a Bonebreaka to switch your warboss away from being in the trukk boyz trukk and that can also transport your MANZ. Warbikers are a good antihorde option that likes the extra range from Bad Moonz. Second HQ pick is probably you buy yourself a second box of MANZ and build the mega-armored Big Mek since you can fit 5 MANZ+the megaboss in the bonebreaka. Mega-mek can act as 'i got second turn' insurance by taking a KFF, standing in the middle of your army and popping the force field boosta stratagem turn 1 if you go second to give your army a temporary 5++, then he can hop into the trukk boyz trukk and continue to ride around in it after the boyz have hopped out and done their fighting. Since a megamek can take a kustom shoota he can take the Ded Shiny Shoota relic and put out pretty solid BS4+ dakka.

Bad moons aren't half bad. I think that 9 bikers can do great with 24 range dakka guns, moar dakka and extra hits. Increasing range by 6 and dakka range by 3 can prove to be quite benefical in some scenarios. Any infantry models with heavy or low-rangw dakka weapons will love it. Tankbustas and flash gitz are an obvious peak as they all love this extra range. While bad moon meganobz' benefits are arguable, maybe this dakka range on shootas or heavy range on rokkits can still be ok for camping midfield.

The relic ain't that great any more but you can still utilize it on a fw bikerboss. Extra range for dss is nice tho.