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yeah, even just looking at it as "hey, here's a BS4+ unit that shoots 7d3 flat 3 damage shots for 160 points"....I'm definitely listening.

 the_scotsman wrote:
yeah, even just looking at it as "hey, here's a BS4+ unit that shoots 7d3 flat 3 damage shots for 160 points"....I'm definitely listening.

indeed. thats why i didnt think i could use them untill an update, i expected a point increase.

Atm they are just nasty.

They are just around current power level, even a bit on the suqishy side.

Beardedragon wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:
yeah, even just looking at it as "hey, here's a BS4+ unit that shoots 7d3 flat 3 damage shots for 160 points"....I'm definitely listening.

indeed. thats why i didnt think i could use them untill an update, i expected a point increase.

Atm they are just nasty.

...I mean, rokkits and KMBs are still 10pts for basically every unit that has them in the new dex.

I was able to play my first game with the new dex. the biggest lesson that came from it is that my squad of 6 deffkoptas will work better as a squad of 5. Trying to maneuver them on turn one and get a charge off after unloading rockets was difficult to keep the units all in coherency, as they were over 5 models. Also make sure to REMEMBER what all has ramshackle, it is a big deal.
Boys will t5 certainly are a bit more tough, but they still melt to ap anything.

Blast and coherency also have a significant impact on units of 6 but none on units of 5. 5 is typically the magic number for multiwounds models.

 Blackie wrote:
Blast and coherency also have a significant impact on units of 6 but none on units of 5. 5 is typically the magic number for multiwounds models.

Yes, I have not played a ton since 7th edition so i am still wrapping my head around a few things.

Also, ramming speed is a great strat! i was able to telleporta a melle deffdread 10" out of a repulsor AND he paid the cp to give me a -2 so i would have needed a 12, and boy I rolled a 13 and did 3 mortals on the charge.

on a slight sad side i hadnt noticed before now, i find it sad that lootas remain heavy support slot rather than elite slot.

I dont feel like anything infantry related should ever be heavy support.

Flash Gitz arent core so maybe they can stay there, but Lootas are core.. why should they remain heavy support.

Beardedragon wrote:
on a slight sad side i hadnt noticed before now, i find it sad that lootas remain heavy support slot rather than elite slot.

I dont feel like anything infantry related should ever be heavy support.

Flash Gitz arent core so maybe they can stay there, but Lootas are core.. why should they remain heavy support.

...basically all the 'fire support infantry' are HS...devastators, retributors, heavy weapon teams, havocs etc...

so last night i finished my 7th match with the new codex of running beast snagga boyz and trying to make them work alongside making mostly foot orks work. my preliminary play results are... not great. playign competant opponents my normal boyz lost a lot to morale as they knew i could not bring them back so brought numbers down for the often failed leadership tests.

footsloggers special exemption of stormboys and komandoes being monsters for scoring points.

dakka jets are rock star, currently i think in the running for the best unit in the book.

squads of 2-3 scrapjets are also really good not sure the other buggies benefit enough from squading them. dragsta is a useful tool for reacting to things when needed.

 the_scotsman wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
on a slight sad side i hadnt noticed before now, i find it sad that lootas remain heavy support slot rather than elite slot.

I dont feel like anything infantry related should ever be heavy support.

Flash Gitz arent core so maybe they can stay there, but Lootas are core.. why should they remain heavy support.

...basically all the 'fire support infantry' are HS...devastators, retributors, heavy weapon teams, havocs etc...

except tankbustas..

 xttz wrote:
Open question - would Bad Moon bikers need a Wartrike to work properly? Still piecing together bits from this new codex but as I understand you need to take separate detachments for both a Speedboss & Warboss, and I will have the new Mega-Armour Warboss once it's released.

A wartrike is the only speedboss, so the reason to play it is the speedwaaagh!. Which Waaagh! you want heavily depends on how heavy you go on vehicles, warbikers have space in either list.

technically, the warboss on bike is both boss types.
I expect that to be addressed because that causes a weird loophole. Probably the only loophole of old FW new codex that tends to happen, rest is just suspiciously good grot tank/mega tanks

in what way are grot tanks 'suspiciously good'?

armed with big shootas theyre worse warbikes for more points, armed with rokkits theyre worse deffcoptas.

Similarly I wouldn't call the GMT particularly crazy. its got good firepower for the points but it doesnt get waaagh or clan kultur and its defenses are pretty flimsy for the point cost (comparative to a wagon chassis it has 5 fewer wounds and 2 fewer toughness)

 G00fySmiley wrote:
so last night i finished my 7th match with the new codex of running beast snagga boyz and trying to make them work alongside making mostly foot orks work. my preliminary play results are... not great. playign competant opponents my normal boyz lost a lot to morale as they knew i could not bring them back so brought numbers down for the often failed leadership tests.

footsloggers special exemption of stormboys and komandoes being monsters for scoring points.

dakka jets are rock star, currently i think in the running for the best unit in the book.

squads of 2-3 scrapjets are also really good not sure the other buggies benefit enough from squading them. dragsta is a useful tool for reacting to things when needed.

Can you tell me how you used the dakka jet? I tried one in my list yesterday and it was not... awesome. maybe I miss targeted him, maybe I didn't do it right.

 the_scotsman wrote:
in what way are grot tanks 'suspiciously good'?

armed with big shootas theyre worse warbikes for more points, armed with rokkits theyre worse deffcoptas.

Similarly I wouldn't call the GMT particularly crazy. its got good firepower for the points but it doesnt get waaagh or clan kultur and its defenses are pretty flimsy for the point cost (comparative to a wagon chassis it has 5 fewer wounds and 2 fewer toughness)

Are they worse than deffkoptas though? You have less rokkits but you DO hit on 4s.

Beardedragon wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:
in what way are grot tanks 'suspiciously good'?

armed with big shootas theyre worse warbikes for more points, armed with rokkits theyre worse deffcoptas.

Similarly I wouldn't call the GMT particularly crazy. its got good firepower for the points but it doesnt get waaagh or clan kultur and its defenses are pretty flimsy for the point cost (comparative to a wagon chassis it has 5 fewer wounds and 2 fewer toughness)

Are they worse than deffkoptas though? You have less rokkits but you DO hit on 4s.

yeah, they are worse than deffcoptas.

4 grot tanks with 5 rokkits - 190pts, 5 hits on average BS4+
4 deffcoptas - 200pts, 5.32 hits on average BS5+

Also has fly, also has 14" movement vs 6+d6, also does some melee vs basically no melee, same exact defenses.

The GMT is more of a question (neatly twice as much firepower as a kannonwagon for basically the same points) but it does have lower range, worse movement and much worse defenses plus the more ephemeral bonuses of access to speedwaaagh and clan kultur which can but dont always help out. GMT may actually be a very competitive piece RAW as an anti-tank alpha strike piece - say in Blood Axes where you can outflank it for freebies.

Beardedragon wrote:
on a slight sad side i hadnt noticed before now, i find it sad that lootas remain heavy support slot rather than elite slot.

I dont feel like anything infantry related should ever be heavy support.

Flash Gitz arent core so maybe they can stay there, but Lootas are core.. why should they remain heavy support.

To be honest now that Lootas don't carry heavy weapons anymore I also think they should have been moved to elites, where they belonged once. On the other hand now Lootas in a trukk are finally viable since they can move and shoot, while getting closer to the enemy is also useful to get more shots. The extra protection of trukk has finally a true purpose now and actually I don't see the point of bringing them on foot anymore. While embarked they won't benefit from being CORE, but I don't think it's really an issue: what does CORE give to lootas anyway?

 zammerak wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
so last night i finished my 7th match with the new codex of running beast snagga boyz and trying to make them work alongside making mostly foot orks work. my preliminary play results are... not great. playign competant opponents my normal boyz lost a lot to morale as they knew i could not bring them back so brought numbers down for the often failed leadership tests.

footsloggers special exemption of stormboys and komandoes being monsters for scoring points.

dakka jets are rock star, currently i think in the running for the best unit in the book.

squads of 2-3 scrapjets are also really good not sure the other buggies benefit enough from squading them. dragsta is a useful tool for reacting to things when needed.

Can you tell me how you used the dakka jet? I tried one in my list yesterday and it was not... awesome. maybe I miss targeted him, maybe I didn't do it right.

depends on the army you are against but it shreds infantry and can chip away ok at light vehicles. basically I pointed it at units that might contest points and prevent secondaries it took care of the problem. They do pretty well removing quite a few power armored bodies off objectives to prevent the opponent from scoring as well. Playign a tournamnt level admech skitari list they did a good job of removing bodies there too. orks still lost but it was closer than expected

 Blackie wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
on a slight sad side i hadnt noticed before now, i find it sad that lootas remain heavy support slot rather than elite slot.

I dont feel like anything infantry related should ever be heavy support.

Flash Gitz arent core so maybe they can stay there, but Lootas are core.. why should they remain heavy support.

To be honest now that Lootas don't carry heavy weapons anymore I also think they should have been moved to elites, where they belonged once. On the other hand now Lootas in a trukk are finally viable since they can move and shoot, while getting closer to the enemy is also useful to get more shots. The extra protection of trukk has finally a true purpose now and actually I don't see the point of bringing them on foot anymore. While embarked they won't benefit from being CORE, but I don't think it's really an issue: what does CORE give to lootas anyway?

Still crap competitively. For a fun game? Sure. But you aren't going to be getting your points back with a loota bomb in a trukk Granted, they will at least have a use for their spannerz armed with KMBs. Honestly though I think believe it or not...Burna boyz in a trukk will be more competitive since you can split fire the Spannerz into elite infantry or vehicles and use the Burnas to flame infantry to your hearts content

a squad of 12 burna boyz with the pyromaniacs specialist mob is quite possibly one of the best anti-infantry picks we've got tbh. Fantastic unit. And the Spanna stings a whole lot less at 11ppm than 17ppm for a model with a big shoota. they chew up nearly 20 geq models a turn and even put 7 wounds on meq in a pinch.

the main problem I have and have always had with lootas is just...theyre boring. theyre not orky to me. its just a glorified model with an autocannon.

I'd like it if Lootas had their specific Stratagem of cannibalizing scrap metal an always on ability instead of being a Stratagem. Fun and Orky. I'm assuming that one survived the transition into 9th.

Sorry if its already been covered, but if you call a speedwaagh, trukks will be affected by the -1ap as they are vehicles. Would this modifier affect their occupants via open topped?

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 zammerak wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
so last night i finished my 7th match with the new codex of running beast snagga boyz and trying to make them work alongside making mostly foot orks work. my preliminary play results are... not great. playign competant opponents my normal boyz lost a lot to morale as they knew i could not bring them back so brought numbers down for the often failed leadership tests.

footsloggers special exemption of stormboys and komandoes being monsters for scoring points.

dakka jets are rock star, currently i think in the running for the best unit in the book.

squads of 2-3 scrapjets are also really good not sure the other buggies benefit enough from squading them. dragsta is a useful tool for reacting to things when needed.

Can you tell me how you used the dakka jet? I tried one in my list yesterday and it was not... awesome. maybe I miss targeted him, maybe I didn't do it right.

depends on the army you are against but it shreds infantry and can chip away ok at light vehicles. basically I pointed it at units that might contest points and prevent secondaries it took care of the problem. They do pretty well removing quite a few power armored bodies off objectives to prevent the opponent from scoring as well. Playign a tournamnt level admech skitari list they did a good job of removing bodies there too. orks still lost but it was closer than expected

Hmm, alright, I will give mine another go. I was playing raven guard and it just didn't seem to pack the punch.

Levski wrote:
Sorry if its already been covered, but if you call a speedwaagh, trukks will be affected by the -1ap as they are vehicles. Would this modifier affect their occupants via open topped?

The TLDR is 'we dont know'. A modifier to AP is not something that's really been conveyed to passengers before.

 the_scotsman wrote:
a squad of 12 burna boyz with the pyromaniacs specialist mob is quite possibly one of the best anti-infantry picks we've got tbh. Fantastic unit. And the Spanna stings a whole lot less at 11ppm than 17ppm for a model with a big shoota. they chew up nearly 20 geq models a turn and even put 7 wounds on meq in a pinch.

the main problem I have and have always had with lootas is just...theyre boring. theyre not orky to me. its just a glorified model with an autocannon.

Lootas feel like a unit stuck in 5th edition when autocannons were good. One penetrating hit and you could take out a vehicle.

Today they are just a 1W 6+ autocannon that dies to anything with low damage output.

Hit modifiers are conferred to passengers.

There's nothing to indicate AP modifiers are.

tulun wrote:
Hit modifiers are conferred to passengers.

There's nothing to indicate AP modifiers are.

The rule for modifiers says "etc." which is ambiguous enough to claim ap modifier is a modifier that would transfer.

RAI it's pretty clear that the AP modifier doesn't go to passengers though. That's a bonus for bikers and vehicles, infantry models already have their bonus from the other kind of waaagh.

 Blackie wrote:
RAI it's pretty clear that the AP modifier doesn't go to passengers though. That's a bonus for bikers and vehicles, infantry models already have their bonus from the other kind of waaagh.

As stated before, it's ambiguous. So discuss it with your opponent before it becomes an issue mid game