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I'm surprised people don't seem to be angry about the Space Marine codex being on its third iteration in three years while other armies are still basically using their updated Index rules codexes. I'm especially surprised Space Marine players aren't complaining more loudly about having to buy basically yearly updates to the codex.

I have to say though I'm really not a fan of GWs opposite approach to how they handle releases now. Remember when they'd release a codex with model entries that didn't exists, then sometime make the model later? This whole release an incomplete codex then release stuff not in the codex is much worse but no one seems to mind.

There is actually a reasonable amount of bitching about it.

Some of it is being drowned out by the talk of wrapping all the marines into one book.

Some of the lack of noise might be the fact that the current book is a bit broken, and could use replacing.

It’s a new edition, so a new marine book is expected. Sucks, but a bit of resignation here.

With how quickly they're flying through the Codices now, I'm certainly not going to be buying any more unless and until I specifically need it for an event or something. I don't paint fast enough to keep up with the rate the new ones come back round.

 Sim-Life wrote:
I'm surprised people don't seem to be angry about the Space Marine codex being on its third iteration in three years while other armies are still basically using their updated Index rules codexes. I'm especially surprised Space Marine players aren't complaining more loudly about having to buy basically yearly updates to the codex.

You must not be paying attention. Some of us complain VERY LOUDLY and ALL THE TIME about that. Have you ever talked to a csm player?

I have to say though I'm really not a fan of GWs opposite approach to how they handle releases now. Remember when they'd release a codex with model entries that didn't exists, then sometime make the model later? This whole release an incomplete codex then release stuff not in the codex is much worse but no one seems to mind.

They're afraid someone will convert a model to represent whatever hasn't been released yet. I remember when they encouraged that. Like the defiler when the 3.5 csm codex was released. People created some cool models out of that one.

People do cry about it lol.

They do need a new one thou with all the new models out now. I;m glad its 1 large core book for every marine faction now, and the supplements has the flavors of the others. So its not like 10 new SM books are going out, its 1 large book.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
People do cry about it lol.

They do need a new one thou with all the new models out now. I;m glad its 1 large core book for every marine faction now, and the supplements has the flavors of the others. So its not like 10 new SM books are going out, its 1 large book.

and a bunch of small ones.

Still better then SM dex SW dex, etc...

But still a gakton more SM then anything else.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
I'm surprised people don't seem to be angry about the Space Marine codex being on its third iteration in three years while other armies are still basically using their updated Index rules codexes. I'm especially surprised Space Marine players aren't complaining more loudly about having to buy basically yearly updates to the codex.

You must not be paying attention. Some of us complain VERY LOUDLY and ALL THE TIME about that. Have you ever talked to a csm player?

I have to say though I'm really not a fan of GWs opposite approach to how they handle releases now. Remember when they'd release a codex with model entries that didn't exists, then sometime make the model later? This whole release an incomplete codex then release stuff not in the codex is much worse but no one seems to mind.

They're afraid someone will convert a model to represent whatever hasn't been released yet. I remember when they encouraged that. Like the defiler when the 3.5 csm codex was released. People created some cool models out of that one.

Yep and now the sad defiler isn't even a thing anymore, a guy in our group scored a pristine used one still complete on the sprue in the box with the instructions. but then he is playing the 3.5 codex in our 5th ed house rules games so he loves the thing-mutated hull, parasitic possession, demonic possession, and indirect fire. it's the original ironclad!

It really isn't a surprise, space marines are their #1 selling product line. it will always get the most love in updates and minis. as long as people keep paying for it GW will keep on doing the same thing they have always done.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
I'm surprised people don't seem to be angry about the Space Marine codex being on its third iteration in three years while other armies are still basically using their updated Index rules codexes. I'm especially surprised Space Marine players aren't complaining more loudly about having to buy basically yearly updates to the codex.

You must not be paying attention. Some of us complain VERY LOUDLY and ALL THE TIME about that. Have you ever talked to a csm player?

I have to say though I'm really not a fan of GWs opposite approach to how they handle releases now. Remember when they'd release a codex with model entries that didn't exists, then sometime make the model later? This whole release an incomplete codex then release stuff not in the codex is much worse but no one seems to mind.

They're afraid someone will convert a model to represent whatever hasn't been released yet. I remember when they encouraged that. Like the defiler when the 3.5 csm codex was released. People created some cool models out of that one.

In fairness I've not been on Dakka a great deal lately but usually people try to drag complaints like this into every topic.

On the second I'm aware of WHY GW don't publish stuff that doesn't have a model in their codexes but what really irked me was the Sister Palentine they previewed. It takes like 2 years from conception to production to produce a model so publishing both the codex and PA: Pariah they KNEW that model was going to be released but didn't see fit to include either in the codex.

Meh since my main army got yeeted and most of our group are fed up with bookreleases we decided to not really invest into new ones...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
I'm surprised people don't seem to be angry about the Space Marine codex being on its third iteration in three years while other armies are still basically using their updated Index rules codexes. I'm especially surprised Space Marine players aren't complaining more loudly about having to buy basically yearly updates to the codex.

You must not be paying attention. Some of us complain VERY LOUDLY and ALL THE TIME about that. Have you ever talked to a csm player?

I have to say though I'm really not a fan of GWs opposite approach to how they handle releases now. Remember when they'd release a codex with model entries that didn't exists, then sometime make the model later? This whole release an incomplete codex then release stuff not in the codex is much worse but no one seems to mind.

They're afraid someone will convert a model to represent whatever hasn't been released yet. I remember when they encouraged that. Like the defiler when the 3.5 csm codex was released. People created some cool models out of that one.

In fairness I've not been on Dakka a great deal lately but usually people try to drag complaints like this into every topic.

On the second I'm aware of WHY GW don't publish stuff that doesn't have a model in their codexes but what really irked me was the Sister Palentine and Ephrael model they previewed. It takes like 2 years from conception to production to produce a model so publishing both the codex and PA: Pariah they KNEW those models were going to be released but didn't see fit to include either in the codex.

But seelling a new book makes money for small investment, also don't forget printstuff is shovelware from china so their margin is even more ludicrous then say, Abadon..

People complain marines suck, gw releases a codex which is wildly out of balance. People complain. Constantly. They release a 3rd codex to include more new stuff and bring them back in line and people complain that old OP book they whinged about online for 12 months is outdated.

What do people expect them to do?

Dudeface wrote:
People complain marines suck, gw releases a codex which is wildly out of balance. People complain. Constantly. They release a 3rd codex to include more new stuff and bring them back in line and people complain that old OP book they whinged about online for 12 months is outdated.

What do people expect them to do?

Not make Marines suck? Not have Marines be laughably OP? Decide on and stick to a rules design for more than one edition at a time so that there aren't three core Marine Codexes, four variant Marine Codexes and ten (?) supplementary Marine Codexes in just over three years..?

 Nevelon wrote:
There is actually a reasonable amount of bitching about it.

Some of it is being drowned out by the talk of wrapping all the marines into one book.

Some of the lack of noise might be the fact that the current book is a bit broken, and could use replacing.

It’s a new edition, so a new marine book is expected. Sucks, but a bit of resignation here.

This is pretty much what I see as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:
People complain marines suck, gw releases a codex which is wildly out of balance. People complain. Constantly. They release a 3rd codex to include more new stuff and bring them back in line and people complain that old OP book they whinged about online for 12 months is outdated.

What do people expect them to do?

Show more interest in the quality of their game.

 Sim-Life wrote:
I'm surprised people don't seem to be angry about the Space Marine codex being on its third iteration in three years while other armies are still basically using their updated Index rules codexes. I'm especially surprised Space Marine players aren't complaining more loudly about having to buy basically yearly updates to the codex.

I have to say though I'm really not a fan of GWs opposite approach to how they handle releases now. Remember when they'd release a codex with model entries that didn't exists, then sometime make the model later? This whole release an incomplete codex then release stuff not in the codex is much worse but no one seems to mind.

I must say, if they believe it's profitable, then they are right to do so. It must be infuriating for marine players (which i fortunately am not), but it shines a new positive light on the more reasonable xenos codex/miniatures release schedule, which can be frustrating compared to marines, but at least you're not feeling milked all the time.

The thing to complain aboute is actually the Marine Codex 2019

The 2020 Codex is kind of fine, something people asked for a long time and the Poster Boys are the first Codex to start the new Edition

Also finally fulfilling the wish of the community let them hope that Eldar and Orks might get the same
Having finally again an Eldar Codex with Supplements for different Sub-Factions or an Ork Codex with Kult/Clan Supplements is why people are quiet, "New 40k" looks really promising from that point of view

But the SM Codex 2019 has no reason to exist at all in this scenario
Marines could have done another year with the old book and just the PA upgrades
It is not like that GW did not know about their own future plans of a PA books coming and a new Edition with a new SM Codex on the way

This Codex was there to get people into 8th Edition so that there are enough "Veterans" for 9th, and to get those who were happy about the game into the right mood for a new Edition.


So for all those things that failed for "New 40k" this one they have done right and this one blink of hope let people forget about all the bad stuff around

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
I'm surprised people don't seem to be angry about the Space Marine codex being on its third iteration in three years while other armies are still basically using their updated Index rules codexes. I'm especially surprised Space Marine players aren't complaining more loudly about having to buy basically yearly updates to the codex.

You must not be paying attention. Some of us complain VERY LOUDLY and ALL THE TIME about that. Have you ever talked to a csm player?

I have to say though I'm really not a fan of GWs opposite approach to how they handle releases now. Remember when they'd release a codex with model entries that didn't exists, then sometime make the model later? This whole release an incomplete codex then release stuff not in the codex is much worse but no one seems to mind.

They're afraid someone will convert a model to represent whatever hasn't been released yet. I remember when they encouraged that. Like the defiler when the 3.5 csm codex was released. People created some cool models out of that one.

In fairness I've not been on Dakka a great deal lately but usually people try to drag complaints like this into every topic.

On the second I'm aware of WHY GW don't publish stuff that doesn't have a model in their codexes but what really irked me was the Sister Palentine they previewed. It takes like 2 years from conception to production to produce a model so publishing both the codex and PA: Pariah they KNEW that model was going to be released but didn't see fit to include either in the codex.

Had they done so, we'd have been whining since November that we didn't have a model yet. As it was, people whined that many of the models weren't released until March when the dex dropped in November.

NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
There is actually a reasonable amount of bitching about it.

Some of it is being drowned out by the talk of wrapping all the marines into one book.

Some of the lack of noise might be the fact that the current book is a bit broken, and could use replacing.

It’s a new edition, so a new marine book is expected. Sucks, but a bit of resignation here.

This is pretty much what I see as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:
People complain marines suck, gw releases a codex which is wildly out of balance. People complain. Constantly. They release a 3rd codex to include more new stuff and bring them back in line and people complain that old OP book they whinged about online for 12 months is outdated.

What do people expect them to do?

Show more interest in the quality of their game.

Lord Damocles wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
People complain marines suck, gw releases a codex which is wildly out of balance. People complain. Constantly. They release a 3rd codex to include more new stuff and bring them back in line and people complain that old OP book they whinged about online for 12 months is outdated.

What do people expect them to do?

Not make Marines suck? Not have Marines be laughably OP? Decide on and stick to a rules design for more than one edition at a time so that there aren't three core Marine Codexes, four variant Marine Codexes and ten (?) supplementary Marine Codexes in just over three years..?

These are lovely "what they could have done" statements. Given where they are now, another codex is actually the easiest answer to the most complained about book in their range.

Dudeface wrote:

Lord Damocles wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
People complain marines suck, gw releases a codex which is wildly out of balance. People complain. Constantly. They release a 3rd codex to include more new stuff and bring them back in line and people complain that old OP book they whinged about online for 12 months is outdated.

What do people expect them to do?

Not make Marines suck? Not have Marines be laughably OP? Decide on and stick to a rules design for more than one edition at a time so that there aren't three core Marine Codexes, four variant Marine Codexes and ten (?) supplementary Marine Codexes in just over three years..?

These are lovely "what they could have done" statements. Given where they are now, another codex is actually the easiest answer to the most complained about book in their range.

To clarify: Yes, I do indeed expect GW to do the thing which they could have done if they'd not done it really badly.


'They broke it repeatedly; so it's actually a good thing that they might maybe possibly, but probably not given prior experience, fix it if we just buy it again' doesn't fly with me.

 Sim-Life wrote:
I'm surprised people don't seem to be angry about the Space Marine codex being on its third iteration in three years while other armies are still basically using their updated Index rules codexes. I'm especially surprised Space Marine players aren't complaining more loudly about having to buy basically yearly updates to the codex.

I am, but mostly because I'm worried about having less options available for my chapter. Anyway, I'm not gonna give GW money for a book of SM stuff, I'll just make some photocopies of the pages I need.

PenitentJake wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
I'm surprised people don't seem to be angry about the Space Marine codex being on its third iteration in three years while other armies are still basically using their updated Index rules codexes. I'm especially surprised Space Marine players aren't complaining more loudly about having to buy basically yearly updates to the codex.

You must not be paying attention. Some of us complain VERY LOUDLY and ALL THE TIME about that. Have you ever talked to a csm player?

I have to say though I'm really not a fan of GWs opposite approach to how they handle releases now. Remember when they'd release a codex with model entries that didn't exists, then sometime make the model later? This whole release an incomplete codex then release stuff not in the codex is much worse but no one seems to mind.

They're afraid someone will convert a model to represent whatever hasn't been released yet. I remember when they encouraged that. Like the defiler when the 3.5 csm codex was released. People created some cool models out of that one.

In fairness I've not been on Dakka a great deal lately but usually people try to drag complaints like this into every topic.

On the second I'm aware of WHY GW don't publish stuff that doesn't have a model in their codexes but what really irked me was the Sister Palentine they previewed. It takes like 2 years from conception to production to produce a model so publishing both the codex and PA: Pariah they KNEW that model was going to be released but didn't see fit to include either in the codex.

Had they done so, we'd have been whining since November that we didn't have a model yet. As it was, people whined that many of the models weren't released until March when the dex dropped in November.

The codex dropped on January for most people. Also they could have just previewed the models in January then released them later. People complained about the Sisters second wave because it was literally half the codex. I doubt anyone would complain about a couple of character models being released later. Hell, back before the tyranid warrior sprue was updated people were pretty happy to just convert their own Tyranid Prime models. Same with the Doom Of Malantai. The same would have happened with the Palentine and Ephrael until the official release.

I'm not impressed with the new book regardless. I'm also not impressed with having another wave of marines either.

I liked the first wave and the few things we got in between. The second wave looking at it now looks super pushed to capitalize on the people that really like the appearance of Phobos Armour. And this third wave seems much more proper than the Phobos one.

What I find really funny is that as we all know, being the first codex of a new edition is a death flag for that faction.

In 12 months time the SM will suck so much that most of this board will ask for an updated SM dex and when it finally comes out, we will all be really happy for it

Spoletta wrote:
What I find really funny is that as we all know, being the first codex of a new edition is a death flag for that faction.

In 12 months time the SM will suck so much that most of this board will ask for an updated SM dex and when it finally comes out, we will all be really happy for it

Yeah, but in 18 months time therell be a brand new codex for Marines coming out with another wave of new Primaris kits, and power creep to put them back on top.

I'm a bit miffed about it especially as due the plague I practically didn't use the current codex at all. But I can't really get worked up about it.

But yeah, It feels like a bizarre decision. Sure, it makes sense to want to start a new edition with a new codex especially as there are a bunch of new models, but certainly they had planned this ages ago and thus could have easily skipped the previous one?

 Lord Damocles wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Lord Damocles wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
People complain marines suck, gw releases a codex which is wildly out of balance. People complain. Constantly. They release a 3rd codex to include more new stuff and bring them back in line and people complain that old OP book they whinged about online for 12 months is outdated.

What do people expect them to do?

Not make Marines suck? Not have Marines be laughably OP? Decide on and stick to a rules design for more than one edition at a time so that there aren't three core Marine Codexes, four variant Marine Codexes and ten (?) supplementary Marine Codexes in just over three years..?

These are lovely "what they could have done" statements. Given where they are now, another codex is actually the easiest answer to the most complained about book in their range.

To clarify: Yes, I do indeed expect GW to do the thing which they could have done if they'd not done it really badly.


'They broke it repeatedly; so it's actually a good thing that they might maybe possibly, but probably not given prior experience, fix it if we just buy it again' doesn't fly with me.

OK, so you're happy to stick with the current 8th ed codex which is right at the top of the power curve?

The last lot of Marine stuff was so utterly broken (even after the tentative 'nerf') that I'm happy that the dice are being rolled again on their rules.

Something closer to fething balanced Marines is second only to getting something for my own faction.

 Sim-Life wrote:
I'm surprised people don't seem to be angry about the Space Marine codex being on its third iteration in three years while other armies are still basically using their updated Index rules codexes. I'm especially surprised Space Marine players aren't complaining more loudly about having to buy basically yearly updates to the codex.

I have to say though I'm really not a fan of GWs opposite approach to how they handle releases now. Remember when they'd release a codex with model entries that didn't exists, then sometime make the model later? This whole release an incomplete codex then release stuff not in the codex is much worse but no one seems to mind.

People resent "snowflake" marines so much they are willing to buy ten book in two years just to feel like SW/DA/BA are not unique.

Spoletta wrote:
What I find really funny is that as we all know, being the first codex of a new edition is a death flag for that faction.

In 12 months time the SM will suck so much that most of this board will ask for an updated SM dex and when it finally comes out, we will all be really happy for it

There's that landspeeder that will come in the meantime, so SM will have new kits even after codex release.

 harlokin wrote:
The last lot of Marine stuff was so utterly broken (even after the tentative 'nerf') that I'm happy that the dice are being thrown again on their rules.

Something closer to fething balanced Marines is second only to getting something for my own faction.

This is pretty much what I'm getting at, yes it shouldn't have come to this but at least there's another shot at getting it right.

As said above. A), they are in the starter box (with plenty of units) and GW can't let their store-sales people hanging, trying to add-on sale Marine dexes to starter boxes if it doesn't have the units in it.

Also, B), the Marine Codex 2.0 is probably the worst, most broken Codex published for the game in at least 20 years, if not ever. The sooner it's gone, the better.


Also, many people seem to like GW rolling Space Wolves, Blood Angels and co into the main Marine book, which is fine. But do you genuinely believe GW will then go, say, 2 years without a Marine book? If anything, not having "minor" Marine books to drip inbetween the proper Space Marine Codex to sell another power armour unit or two just means GW will have to update "the big Codex" to a 9th Ed. 2.0-version even sooner.

I expect the new Necron and Marine codizes to be ahead of the rest, even if they are more balanced in the grander scheme of things.

The new codex will be adapted to the new core rules better than other factions.

The good thing is, that early codizes tend to get weaker over time as designers are more familiar with the rules themselved and more daring to go into a different design direction for new books.

I am a Marine player. I honestly don't want more models or releases. I want a year of chaos thingies and then another or xenos thingies. I want to be left alone painting my overdue models in peace.