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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





For most, Catachan provides a lot of efficiency. Look how strong something like Master Artisans can be for Marines? Having access to that many free rerolls for number of shots over the course of a game (especially for Manticores, etc...) will just add easy, obvious value.

11527pts Total (7400pts painted)

4980pts Total (4980pts painted)

3730 Total (210pts painted) 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Points will likely make or break them but gaunts ghosts feel like one of the best sniper squads for astra militarum. The reduction of a strategems per round by 1cp to 0 is pretty broken as well.

24-48in range ignore cover weapons on a bs2 (except for 1 guy who shoots 2x if he misses) squad with a 3+ 5++ and -1 to hit and immune to range atks over 18in and immune to morale And can issue orders (on themselves) and can infiltrate if you want but why would you? You want to protect that -1 to strategem guy and stay over 18in away in cover. And just in case a squad does make it into melee range they always fight last.
Discuss
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/08/ever-wanted-to-field-an-entire-squad-of-specialist-heroes-gaunts-ghosts-have-you-covered/

This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2021/06/08 23:43:18


 
   
Made in au
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





gungo wrote:
Points will likely make or break them but gaunts ghosts feel like one of the best sniper squads for astra militarum. The reduction of a strategems per round by 1cp to 0 is pretty broken as well.

24-48in range ignore cover weapons on a bs2 (except for 1 guy who shoots 2x if he misses) squad with a 3+ 5++ and -1 to hit and immune to range atks over 18in and immune to morale And can issue orders (on themselves) and can infiltrate if you want but why would you? You want to protect that -1 to strategem guy and stay over 18in away in cover. And just in case a squad does make it into melee range they always fight last.
Discuss
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/08/ever-wanted-to-field-an-entire-squad-of-specialist-heroes-gaunts-ghosts-have-you-covered/


In regards to the stratagem cost reduction. To my understanding it does specify "on this unit" IMO they worded it poorly, but the spirit of it seems to be any stratagem that specifically affects that unit and only that unit meaning any stratagem you get the cost reduction on won't be super effective due to the small unit size and meh, sporadic firepower it has. More of a nice touch rather than anything gamebreaking.
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





gungo wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/08/ever-wanted-to-field-an-entire-squad-of-specialist-heroes-gaunts-ghosts-have-you-covered/

For a truly thematic choice, be sure to not appreciate the contribution the Tanith make to your success.

OK, I laughed.
Also, I find it a little interesting that Cruddace mentioned the meta choice (is it still the meta choice?) for infantry traits. He's not wrong to think they fit the Tanith like a glove, of course, it's just...interesting.
I'd be curious to see if this is the sort of unit that attracts more fire than its output would warrant.
Also, I'm curious if we'll end up seeing Lascarbines as a weapon choice in the new dex...
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




It’s not worded well at all and it sounds like any strategem cast by thier detachment to me.
But let’s assume it’s as you say you still get
Inspired tactics free 2 orders
Take cover free +1 saves (making them 2+ in cover)
Grendiers free everyone throws grenades
Vengeance for Cadia free reroll hits and wounds vs chaos
Cut them down free
Command reroll free
Overwatch free
And several less useful 1cp strats...

Worst case they are annoying infiltrating objective grabbers

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/06/09 00:36:05


 
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





France, region of Paris

Greetings.

Among the levers avilable to GW's studio to revamp the Astra Militarum, are the weapons profiles changes. But as many weapon profiles are shared by other human factions, and some 9th ed' books are out without significant chages, apart from meltas, there are few possibilities here if they want to keep some coherency. Now I have came across the following profile for the Stygies vanquisher cannon in the legends PDF (page 64). I have not seen anyone here speak about it, so I am courious about what fellow dakkaites think about this bit of information.

Stygies vanquisher battle cannon 72" Heavy 1, Strength 8, AP-3, damage D3+3

So this may indicate that GW has already planned to shift the regular Leman Russ Vanquisher from "2D6 pick the highest" to D3+3 damage, in the 9th AM codex. Which will boost its efficiency, not by much, but somewhat. The mean damage value will go from about 4.5 to 5.5 : will this be enough to consider the vanquisher cannon, given its low rate of fire ?

I have serious doubts... what about you ?

longtime Astra Militarum neckbeard  
   
Made in de
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






as long as nothing changes about the BS... no. note that D3+3 is only 5 on average, not 5.5.

Compared to the battlecannon against a T8 target (it scales against other targets, both doubletap)
Sv3+: 2.5 damage (Vanquisher) vs. 3.5 (BC)
Sv4+: 2.5 damage (Vanquisher) vs. 2.92 (BC)
Sv3+: 2.08 vs. 2.33
Sv2+: 1.67 vs. 1.75
Sv1+: 1.25 vs. 1.17

So only against a (hypothetical) model with a 1+ and no invulnerability save is the S8, AP-3, D3+3 profile slightly better than a battlecannon. Meanwhile it looses more of its effectiveness if targeted at things whose number of wounds do fit suboptimally. I mean it in a sense that not only W1-4 or suboptimal targets, W11 (1/3 chance to kill with 2 unsaved wounds) and 12 (1/9th chance to kill with 2 unsaved wounds) are also, and those are pretty common in vehicles. I really hope they come up with more... better S, ignores Inv. saves, some kind of max damage against vehicles rule...

~6550 build and painted
819 build and painted
830 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






If a vanquisher had 3 damage +d3 mortal wounds?
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Vanquishers need D3 shots. Just look at the Macharius Vanquisher it's:

- Heavy 2, S16, AP-4, 9 Damage, and +1 BS against vehicles and monsters.

It's still trash, why? Because if anything has a -1 to Hit, an Invul save, a FNP type save, a +1 armour save or better, or a wound on 4/5/6 ability it's worthless. Even more so if they have a combination of these.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/11 01:01:15


 
   
Made in de
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






@ Macharius Vanquisher: it also statistically drops in efficiency if the enemy does not have 9/18/27 wounds.

~6550 build and painted
819 build and painted
830 
   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





You can at least expect the regular battlecannon is going to flat 3 damage as they did the same to the battlecannon on the defiler in the death guard codex. (although they called it a defiler cannon now). The vanquisher would need more than D3+3 damage to make it compete with the battlecannon in that case.

Vanquisher trades rate of fire for range and on the smaller board you just never need 72" range. That's why the Demolisher is so much stronger than other options at the moment.

I will happily trade the vanquisher's range for 3-4 times as many shots with the Demolisher. Especially with spotter details pushing the Demolisher range to 30".

Even if you have to bring the Demolisher forward into danger and you lose it, it will still on average have put out almost the same firepower as the vanquisher surviving the whole game.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Sure would be nice to see 9 wound models haha.. even dreadnoughts are -1 to damage so you're out of luck there too
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

I would only take the Vanquisher if it was noticeably better against enemy armour than my other options. My dedicated tank killer should be better at killing tanks than a multi melta for example.

Strength 9, -4Sv, D6 damage with +2D6 damage against vehicle, monsterous or titanic enemies would be a start.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The only decent vanquisher in any edition was the vanquisher with co-axial stubber and beast hunter shells

In other words for a single shot weapon to be decent is if that shot has a built in reroll to hit.
And beast hunter shells was blast which would now be d3 hits.
D3 hits, str 9, ap-4, d6 dam (+d6 dam vs monster/vehicle)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/11 23:30:58


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Possible resurgence of the Wyvern? Wyvern were super popular in 8th but the meta went into 2 wound and 3 wound infantry really hurt it, wondering if the new drukhari, death-guard, and admech meta the single damage wyvern might see some play? Its not terribly expensive and I think most lists can afford to bring one, also might change your opponents tactics of trying to leave a cheap unit to hold his home objective
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




This has been my idea on Leman Russ turret weapons for awhile:

- Annihilator lascannons: Damage D3 + 3.
- Battle cannon: Damage 3.
- Conqueror cannon: Damage 2. Comes with free storm bolter.
- Demolisher cannon: Damage 4.
- Eradicator: Damage 2. Gains "If a unit is hit by this weapon, in their following Movement phase they must halve their Move characteristic and cannot Advance" ability.
- Executioner plasma cannon: Damage 2 on standard. Damage 3 on overcharge.
- Exterminator autocannons: Heavy 6 or Heavy 8 depending on points cost.
- Punisher: Personally I think it's fine, it just needs a points drop.
- Vanquisher: Heavy D3. S12. AP-3. Damage D3 + 3. Give it Blast and remove the previous ability.

In terms of survivability, all Leman Russ hull vehicles should get 14 wounds and a 2+ save against shooting attacks (3+ save in melee). Anything larger Malcador, Macharius, Baneblade, etc would get the improved save as well.

In terms of Tank Commanders, I'd probably increase them by another 5 points. But I'd also give them a second order, increase their order range to 18 inch, and give them the ability to refund CP when taken as the Warlord in a Spearhead detachment.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/14 01:33:51


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I personally think any platform that is BS 4+ should be 10 point heavy-bolters, and 15 pt las-cannon and plasma-cannons, this would really help regular leman-russes see play, also possibly reduce heavy-flamers to 10pts each on every chassis.

This would be fun too because I feel leman-russes with sponsons look more futuristic and I always love the idea of guard with mass heavy-bolters in their army.
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





France, region of Paris

I highly doubt any rebate for BS 4+ vehicle weapons will happen in the 9th edition codex.

And for the Wyvern : yes it is good, but the Save 3+ metagame really puts it in the shadow. On top of that, the wyvern is too expensive now. Its cost has been raised Chapter Approved after Chapter approved, while it has not dominated IG lists. I wonder why. Perhaps the Wyvern is still atoning its sins during 7th edition, when it was completely broken.

longtime Astra Militarum neckbeard  
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




If they made the Hydra batteries but with LCs I would take that in a heartbeat.
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Didn't we have that in a Fortification at some point?
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





France, region of Paris

 waefre_1 wrote:
Didn't we have that in a Fortification at some point?

It was the Aegis defence line, from 6th edition. It had rules up to 8th. But this fortification included quad regular autocannons, not the longer range Hydra autocannons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/15 09:31:16


longtime Astra Militarum neckbeard  
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




bat702 wrote:
I personally think any platform that is BS 4+ should be 10 point heavy-bolters, and 15 pt las-cannon and plasma-cannons, this would really help regular leman-russes see play, also possibly reduce heavy-flamers to 10pts each on every chassis.

This would be fun too because I feel leman-russes with sponsons look more futuristic and I always love the idea of guard with mass heavy-bolters in their army.


They should have just made heavy weapons follow the same logic as special weapons. Have a BS4+ and a BS3+ cost. That'd give another advantage to standard Leman Russ tanks over Tank Commanders, they'd be able to take more secondary weapons.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Washington State



Thoughts?
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





France, region of Paris

People, listen, this is a prophetic vision !
Yes, I had a premonitory vision of a parcel of the 9th edition codex.

And it looks pretty bleak...
Yep.

You see, recent codices introduce or revamp bespoke set of rules, that are chosen and cast in the command phase. It looks like they had introduced the command phase specifically for that. The command protocols for Necrons, or canticles for the omnissiah, for cult mechanicus are good examples. So what is the closest set of rules that Astra Militarum has to these ? Yes, it is orders. But from their introduction in the 5th edition codex, orders have been chosen and cast in the beginning of the shooting phase. Somewhat weirdly, because it means there exists some sort of beggining-of-shooting-phase step, that does not exist for any other codex. So, what feels the most consistent way to fit AM rules into 9th edition codex canvas ? Displace the orders into the command phase ! Order = command. Seems legit, right ? This will mean the following consequences.

For the squad to benefit from an order, the squad would need to be on the field, and in officer range during the command phase. We will no longer be able to order a squad to reroll to hit, if this squad comes from reserves. No longer we will be able to safely and accurately overcharge plasma scions that just deep struck. Same for FRFSRF those hot shot laser guns. There is more. No longer we will be able to FRFSRF (or move-move-move) this infantry squad disembarking from a Chimera, Taurox or Valkyrie. As the order should be be put before movement, not after, there will be no "need" for an additional movement in case of move, move, move order. Meaning it will probably be nerfed, to look like what it was during 7th edition (a little boost to a regular advance). Finally, while the order will need to be cast before making any repositionning on your movement phase, the squad and officers arrangement on the table will need to be planned one turn in advance. This is significant. The guardsmen are among the squishiest infantry models around. Thus arrangements that would allow for an officer to issue a potentially interesting order to a nearby squad will be spotted and countered easily by the opponent. This will affect objective grabbing, as well as optimizing firepower. The only arrangements that will get unaffected by this change will be static gunlines that don't plan to move much.


Unfortunately, future attempts at mobile Astra Militarum infantry are doomed.

longtime Astra Militarum neckbeard  
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Oh, don't be so doom-and-gloom. GW could decide to shift gears on that mid-edition and remove Orders entirely, freeing us from the burden of worrying about anything other than Stratagems in the Command Phase.
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

 necrontyrOG wrote:


Thoughts?

How many points do these guys cost? That would really determine if they are good or not. I like the abilities on them; makes me think a bit of the Triumph of St. Katherine except a lot less, err, saintly (in that you start to lose capabilities as you take casualties).

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

PL7 is something around 140 pts.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




It’s a decent unit depending on points and depending on colonel cornek ability…

I cormek reduces most strstegems cost by 1 cp then at 140 it’s a steal! Drop this unit in your backfield to camp an objective.

If it only allows strats cast on this unit or involving this unit it will likely still be a decent objective camping unit at 120-140… anything more then that I don’t know.
But remember this unit can use all these strats for free
Inspired tactics free 2 orders
Take cover free +1 saves (making them 2+ in cover)
Grendiers free everyone throws grenades
Vengeance for Cadia free reroll hits and wounds vs chaos
Cut them down free
Command reroll free
Overwatch free
And several less useful 1cp strats...

So assuming you remember all thier abilities and use the free strats above your get a 24-48in range ignore cover weapons on a bs2/3 (except for 1 guy who shoots 2x if he misses) (don’t forget that free reroll) squad with a 3+ (2+ W/take cover strat) 5++ and -1 to hit and immune to range atks over 18in and immune to morale And can issue orders (on themselves up to 2) and can infiltrate if you want but why would you? You want to protect that -1 to strategem guy and stay over 18in away in cover. And just in case a squad does make it into melee range they always fight last after you can overwatch and use grenade strat for free.

It’s an annoying unit for someone to waste shots on but thier only real purpose is objective camping or mission play. Thier offense even with all thier buffs is basically a bunch of lasguns, an autocannon, and sniper rifle.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/19 00:21:29


 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut






You see, recent codices introduce or revamp bespoke set of rules, that are chosen and cast in the command phase. It looks like they had introduced the command phase specifically for that. The command protocols for Necrons, or canticles for the omnissiah, for cult mechanicus are good examples. So what is the closest set of rules that Astra Militarum has to these ? Yes, it is orders. But from their introduction in the 5th edition codex, orders have been chosen and cast in the beginning of the shooting phase. Somewhat weirdly, because it means there exists some sort of beggining-of-shooting-phase step, that does not exist for any other codex. So, what feels the most consistent way to fit AM rules into 9th edition codex canvas ? Displace the orders into the command phase ! Order = command. Seems legit, right ? This will mean the following consequences.

For the squad to benefit from an order, the squad would need to be on the field, and in officer range during the command phase. We will no longer be able to order a squad to reroll to hit, if this squad comes from reserves. No longer we will be able to safely and accurately overcharge plasma scions that just deep struck. Same for FRFSRF those hot shot laser guns. There is more. No longer we will be able to FRFSRF (or move-move-move) this infantry squad disembarking from a Chimera, Taurox or Valkyrie. As the order should be be put before movement, not after, there will be no "need" for an additional movement in case of move, move, move order. Meaning it will probably be nerfed, to look like what it was during 7th edition (a little boost to a regular advance). Finally, while the order will need to be cast before making any repositionning on your movement phase, the squad and officers arrangement on the table will need to be planned one turn in advance. This is significant. The guardsmen are among the squishiest infantry models around. Thus arrangements that would allow for an officer to issue a potentially interesting order to a nearby squad will be spotted and countered easily by the opponent. This will affect objective grabbing, as well as optimizing firepower. The only arrangements that will get unaffected by this change will be static gunlines that don't plan to move much.


It depends on how they decide to do it. Company Commanders might have a reroll 1 aura. Like a Tech-Priest Dominus. The other orders would probably be more straight forward.
   
Made in es
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva




someone knows if they release from time to time for preorder some regiments like they did february '20 with Valhallan?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/20 17:15:49


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