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Robcio wrote:
If it caps at 4+ then what's the point when we have take aim?

For the artillery units which can't receive take aim.

That makes sense, I was only thinking of my FOB.

Imperial Armour Compendium updated today for Guard!

Notables are that Death Korps Marshals are now Commandants.

Has anybody played around with a sentinel mob yet? LIke 9 armorued sentinels with plasma, hunter killers, and saws with Creed and a banner for plus one to hit, strength, AP, and rerolling ones to hit and wound. for fun add scout sentinels for turn one pressure or use her warlord trait to redeploy them as a counter charge threat.

Not sure I want to buy and paint 9+ sentinels, but it sounds like a fun meme list.

I'm running a doubles tournament for February and my partner is using 9 Sentinels and 2 vanquishers. Gonna be strangely tactical for a guard list. I'm looking forward to seeing how it skirmishes.

Thanks for your thoughts dominuschao, sounds like you're on the ball. I'm still at the list writing stage and a little way off actually playing yet but you've given me a lot of food for thought.

What's your (or anyone's) opinion on the Taurox combined with MI and Swift as the wind. 16'' move then disembark sounds pretty good. Decent guns, not as tough as the chimera but cheapee. Would still need a chimera as a command vehicle though.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Imperial Armour Compendium updated today for Guard!

Notables are that Death Korps Marshals are now Commandants.

But don't get the re-roll 1s aura like a real officer, because screw you for buying FW models instead of the plastic Cadian kit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Polonius wrote:
Has anybody played around with a sentinel mob yet? LIke 9 armorued sentinels with plasma, hunter killers, and saws with Creed and a banner for plus one to hit, strength, AP, and rerolling ones to hit and wound. for fun add scout sentinels for turn one pressure or use her warlord trait to redeploy them as a counter charge threat.

Not sure I want to buy and paint 9+ sentinels, but it sounds like a fun meme list.

IMO Sentinels are a unit with diminishing returns. A unit of three for buff stacking is great since they have all the keywords, but the units which don't get the once per turn buffs are going to be a lot less effective and probably not as good as plasma LRBTs. A couple of scouts for screening are essential but do you really want to forward deploy a significant point investment? OTOH it's at least not an F-tier meme army like it would have been in the old codex so feel free to try it.

 PaddyMick wrote:
What's your (or anyone's) opinion on the Taurox combined with MI and Swift as the wind. 16'' move then disembark sounds pretty good. Decent guns, not as tough as the chimera but cheapee. Would still need a chimera as a command vehicle though.

Pretty good IMO. You don't get the guns or the extra passenger seat to bring an officer along for buffs but the threat range is nice and the cost reduction definitely adds up in a mechanized list. I'd say they're about equal with Chimeras and which one to take is personal preference.

Aecus Decimus wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Imperial Armour Compendium updated today for Guard!

Notables are that Death Korps Marshals are now Commandants.

But don't get the re-roll 1s aura like a real officer, because screw you for buying FW models instead of the plastic Cadian kit.

Um, they literally do?

Page 54 – Death Korps Marshal, Abilities
Change the second paragraph to:
‘Refractor Field, Senior Officer (see the Cadian Castellan
datasheet in Codex: Astra Militarum

Senior Officer is that reroll aura.

 PaddyMick wrote:
Thanks for your thoughts dominuschao, sounds like you're on the ball. I'm still at the list writing stage and a little way off actually playing yet but you've given me a lot of food for thought.

What's your (or anyone's) opinion on the Taurox combined with MI and Swift as the wind. 16'' move then disembark sounds pretty good. Decent guns, not as tough as the chimera but cheapee. Would still need a chimera as a command vehicle though.

No problem brother this book has been odd to come to grips with but I'm starting to dig it.

My personal opinion is the chimera is one of the best dedicated transports in the game. The taurox is not nearly as good but it's cheaper and faster. If taking multiples then that savings will add up a bit and cruising around 10" even at 1 wound is pretty wild. I think you could have success with a specialized build. For example a couple filled with a fighty cmd squad and bulgryns. Issue being capacity for bulgryns. Something aggressive they don't want in their lines.That way your leaning into the taurox speed and disposable nature. This will draw heat from your russes and mess with their target priority, or rather give you some control over it. Combine that group with a bane wolf and some mounted shock troops. Pretty damn cheap for a squad in a taurox. Just for some examples.

Also if your spamming taurox then your spamming infantry and shock troops are stupidly killy now for their cost with born. But I now see why they did it. Born makes troops still a consideration vs Russ and kasrkin.

Not as good as just spamming the latter but that's not my style.

Anyway just some ideas.

Does anyone have some thoughts on how to handle Tau match ups? I am about to start a crusade where two of the players are using Tau. PL give a huge advantage to Tau as they can trick out Crisis Suits.

I am struggling to think of units to add to my Order of Battle that would be useful at a low PL (our first game will be played at 25Pl/ roughly that of a Combat Patrol and then we will grow our armies).

I am thinking Tank Commander with Gatekeeper, 2 sentinels with plasma cannons....and what else?

Or do I go heavy into Cadian Shock Troops and hunt for 6s?

Love any ideas!

 Kanluwen wrote:
Imperial Armour Compendium updated today for Guard!

Notables are that Death Korps Marshals are now Commandants.

Looks like the expected keywords got put into place also. Looks good. Looks like the artillery can regimental orders.
The only two bits i didn't like;
1. All units seem to be stuck with Born Soldiers unless they want Cult of Sacrifice only
2. The hades drill can't get orders (and can't get Swift... see 1.) which buggers up my nefarious plans.

Nevermind; could be worse, could be worse, could be legended.

Just spotted also, none of the tanks have 'turret' weapons. Rules are hard /sad face

@wiserhipponinjas
Ya PL was never a good idea why not stick to points? I've never played crusade btw so maybe thats how it works?

Regardless at that level I think both armies will be unbalanced.

Tau theoretically cost more ppw but they're troops selection is strong and they pack a ton of quality firepower so I'm not sure I'd take high priority targets this low with little to screen or draw attention. That said its hard to resist a russ so if you are allowing matched play relics and warlord traits then consider a tank commander.

To me at this level your looking for cheap and scalable. So troops, command and kasrkin as a basis.

Something like:
3 shock troops
1 kasrkin
sentinel
If you can get superior tactical and gatekeeper then the tank commander and barbicants on the kasrkin is a good way to finish it.

 PaddyMick wrote:
Looks like the expected keywords got put into place also. Looks good. Looks like the artillery can regimental orders.
The only two bits i didn't like;
1. All units seem to be stuck with Born Soldiers unless they want Cult of Sacrifice only

It's almost like it's a signature doctrine for Krieg...

Do note that as worded, you can sidestep a Crusade requirement of having to use the Consolidated Regiments Requisition to not start with Born Soldiers...and it lets you keep Born Soldiers for your non-Krieg detachments.

2. The hades drill can't get orders (and can't get Swift... see 1.) which buggers up my nefarious plans.

Yeah, I can't feel sympathetic for that at all.

dominuschao wrote:
@wiserhipponinjas
Ya PL was never a good idea why not stick to points? I've never played crusade btw so maybe thats how it works?

Regardless at that level I think both armies will be unbalanced.

Tau theoretically cost more ppw but they're troops selection is strong and they pack a ton of quality firepower so I'm not sure I'd take high priority targets this low with little to screen or draw attention. That said its hard to resist a russ so if you are allowing matched play relics and warlord traits then consider a tank commander.

To me at this level your looking for cheap and scalable. So troops, command and kasrkin as a basis.

Something like:
3 shock troops
1 kasrkin
sentinel
If you can get superior tactical and gatekeeper then the tank commander and barbicants on the kasrkin is a good way to finish it.

Thank you for the in-depth overview. That is extremely helpful!

The Crusade rules force you into PL. You get 50PL to build a list of units called an "Order of Battle". From that Order of Battle you can choose units to fight in any given game. You get "Requisition" points when you win that you can use to increase your army size or give relics. We are starting out with 5 RP. I planned on using 2 for relics right away.

I love your idea of a tank commander with Gatekeeper and maybe the mechanical pack rat?

Barbicants on the kasrkin seems super smart (I dont own any Kasrkin but I will check with the group and see if they will let me use scions as replacement until you can buy kasrkin boxes).

I think you are right about going small and screening. Any large targets will be wiped out. Kasrkin and shocktroops will survive longer and be able to get wounds with Born Soldiers.

Appreciate the reply.

 PaddyMick wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Imperial Armour Compendium updated today for Guard!

Just spotted also, none of the tanks have 'turret' weapons. Rules are hard /sad face

Its not the tank that has the turret rule it is the weapon. For example the Thunderer's "demolisher" was changed to "Demolisher Battle Cannon" which has the turret rule, which is my personal favourite find at first glance. 120pts for a demolisher Russ? Sure they still have the 3+ save and 12 wounds still, but I love the idea of more tanks on the table.

wiserhipponinjas wrote:
Does anyone have some thoughts on how to handle Tau match ups? I am about to start a crusade where two of the players are using Tau. PL give a huge advantage to Tau as they can trick out Crisis Suits.

Use points instead (and scale up any references to PL with the 20:1 conversion factor). This is an excellent example of the reason why most people modify Crusade to use the normal point system. If your Tau players are WAAC TFGs and refuse to use the point system that fairly evaluates their units instead of exploiting the broken system then you dodged a bullet and should thank them for being honest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's almost like it's a signature doctrine for Krieg...

Yes, that signature doctrine that is so vitally important and universal that the Krieg unit in the codex doesn't get it. You know that it's ok to occasionally admit that GW did something wrong, right?

Yeah, I can't feel sympathetic for that at all.

Yes, it is well established that you have no sympathy for anyone or anything but your own personal army and are perfectly fine with other people getting screwed over as long as you don't use those units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PaddyMick wrote:
1. All units seem to be stuck with Born Soldiers unless they want Cult of Sacrifice only

Fortunately not. Whoever wrote the document doesn't seem to understand that doctrines are for your whole army, not for a single detachment, but it adds an additional option. It does not replace the option to select doctrines normally or prohibit you from doing so, and everything has the REGIMENTAL keyword to benefit from doctrines.

Aecus Decimus wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's almost like it's a signature doctrine for Krieg...

Yes, that signature doctrine that is so vitally important and universal that the Krieg unit in the codex doesn't get it.

Catachans don't get Brutal Strength. Cadians don't get Born Soldiers.

The codex is vanilla. Codex supplements would be where those kinds of changes would be made.

You know that it's ok to occasionally admit that GW did something wrong, right?

You know that it's okay to just not post if you have nothing to add, right?

Yeah, I can't feel sympathetic for that at all.

Yes, it is well established that you have no sympathy for anyone or anything but your own personal army and are perfectly fine with other people getting screwed over as long as you don't use those units.

It's also well established that I think that fluff should matter, and putting "Swift Like the Wind" on a breaching drill fielded almost exclusively by Krieg is just gamey nonsense.

 PaddyMick wrote:
1. All units seem to be stuck with Born Soldiers unless they want Cult of Sacrifice only

Fortunately not. Whoever wrote the document doesn't seem to understand that doctrines are for your whole army, not for a single detachment, but it adds an additional option. It does not replace the option to select doctrines normally or prohibit you from doing so, and everything has the REGIMENTAL keyword to benefit from doctrines.

Or they understand it better than you think, and added a way for someone to field a Death Korps detachment alongside of a different setup.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Catachans don't get Brutal Strength. Cadians don't get Born Soldiers.

It's almost like that was a deliberate decision, that regiments are more than just their "signature" rules. If Catachans aren't locked to Brutal Strength then Krieg shouldn't be locked to Cult of Sacrifice.

Fortunately though you were wrong in interpreting the rule and the FW units can use normal doctrines like any other units.

It's also well established that I think that fluff should matter, and putting "Swift Like the Wind" on a breaching drill fielded almost exclusively by Krieg is just gamey nonsense.

And yet oddly GW disagrees with you, given the fact that the only reason it can't be taken with non-Krieg units anymore is "no model no rules" and GW used to even give you rules for a special veteran unit specifically to support using it with non-Krieg regiments. Maybe you should review the lore and prior rules before making condescending statements about someone else's army being "gamey nonsense"?

Or they understand it better than you think, and added a way for someone to field a Death Korps detachment alongside of a different setup.

Which does not function under the rules as written. Doctrines apply to every REGIMENTAL unit in your army, there is no such thing as replacing a doctrine for a single detachment.

Aecus Decimus wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Catachans don't get Brutal Strength. Cadians don't get Born Soldiers.

It's almost like that was a deliberate decision, that regiments are more than just their "signature" rules. If Catachans aren't locked to Brutal Strength then Krieg shouldn't be locked to Cult of Sacrifice.

Nowhere does it say that they are.
As I pointed out though, Born Soldiers is the default for Crusade. You do not get to pick and choose without using requisition actions. That FAQ does make it so that Born Soldiers can be swapped out for CoS with no issues.

Fortunately though you were wrong in interpreting the rule and the FW units can use normal doctrines like any other units.

Nowhere did I say they can't. But I think we have already established that you do not read things.

It's also well established that I think that fluff should matter, and putting "Swift Like the Wind" on a breaching drill fielded almost exclusively by Krieg is just gamey nonsense.

And yet oddly GW disagrees with you, given the fact that the only reason it can't be taken with non-Krieg units anymore is "no model no rules" and GW used to even give you rules for a special veteran unit specifically to support using it with non-Krieg regiments.

No, the rules were simply that a <Regiment> Combat Engineers(which didn't exist outside of Krieg) OR <Regiment> Veterans keyworded unit could utilize with it.

Maybe you should review the lore and prior rules before making condescending statements about someone else's army being "gamey nonsense"?

You mean the lore about it being specialized engineering equipment available to Krieg engineers and the rules where it was part of an Imperial Guard Siege Army?

Yeah. That totally screams "Swift Like the Wind"...especially the lore tidbit about them being rarely used on the battlefield.

Or they understand it better than you think, and added a way for someone to field a Death Korps detachment alongside of a different setup.

Which does not function under the rules as written. Doctrines apply to every REGIMENTAL unit in your army, there is no such thing as replacing a doctrine for a single detachment.

You do know that this magical concept of "exceptions to the rule" can happen, right?

 PaddyMick wrote:

The only two bits i didn't like;
1. All units seem to be stuck with Born Soldiers unless they want Cult of Sacrifice only

Pretty sure that rule doesn't stop them getting others. It's just a suggestion, like the FW unique SM chapters.

 Kanluwen wrote:
As I pointed out though, Born Soldiers is the default for Crusade. You do not get to pick and choose without using requisition actions. That FAQ does make it so that Born Soldiers can be swapped out for CoS with no issues.

A requisition which costs 0 RP so I'm not sure what your point here is. If you want to play an army with Cult of Sacrifice or whatever other doctrine you use the 0 RP requisition to change to your intended doctrine at the start of the campaign.

And no, you didn't technically say they're locked, you just posted to agree with someone who mistakenly did and gave an explanation for why it "works that way". Please don't try to hide behind nitpicking over specific hyper-literal wording.

No, the rules were simply that a <Regiment> Combat Engineers(which didn't exist outside of Krieg) OR <Regiment> Veterans keyworded unit could utilize with it.

In the 9th edition book. But the Hades has had rules for a lot longer than that.

In 8th edition it had its own special veteran squad with no specific regiment and couldn't be taken by Krieg engineers at all.

In 6th/7th edition it had its own special veteran squad with no specific regiment but could replace that squad with a squad of Krieg engineers. It also appeared as a separate option in the Krieg variant lists, linked to the engineer squad.

In 5th edition it was a dedicated transport for a veteran squad with no specific regiment. It also appeared as a separate option in the Krieg variant lists, linked to the engineer squad.

TL;DR: since the Hades was first created it has only been limited to Krieg units only for a few days. The rest of the time it has existed as a generic unit which could be taken by any regiment. Your assertion that it's a Krieg exclusive and having any other regiment is "gamey nonsense" is simply not supported by reality.

Jarms48 wrote:

 PaddyMick wrote:

The only two bits i didn't like;
1. All units seem to be stuck with Born Soldiers unless they want Cult of Sacrifice only

Pretty sure that rule doesn't stop them getting others. It's just a suggestion, like the FW unique SM chapters.

Aha, thanks. Reading it back, that makes sense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 spiderman518 wrote:


Its not the tank that has the turret rule it is the weapon. For example the Thunderer's "demolisher" was changed to "Demolisher Battle Cannon" which has the turret rule, which is my personal favourite find at first glance. 120pts for a demolisher Russ? Sure they still have the 3+ save and 12 wounds still, but I love the idea of more tanks on the table.

That's cool, must have a look at that Demolisher. But the malcador weapons don't have 'turret'

 PaddyMick wrote:
But the malcador weapons don't have 'turret'

Hilariously the hull mounted guns on the Annihilator and Defender do because they got the LRBT's "demolisher battle cannon" which has the turret rule. Still an inexcusably awful unit because of having 18 wounds and only a 3+ save though.

Again, this might be a dumb question, but anyway:
the last Codex I own physically is 8th. Back there the "EMPEROR’S CONCLAVE INFANTRY COMPANY" existed. Is something like that still around?

And unrelated to that: As I try to wrap my head around how Platoon works: is there any option (Warlord trait, stratagem, euqipment, whatever) that would allow a REGIMENT (so neither Cadian nor Catachan) Officers order to bounce more than 6'' from the ordered unit?
My collection is pretty heavy on Infantry, Cavalry and Sentinels, so it seems to me leaning into platoon and using it to its fullest is not a bad bet.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Again, this might be a dumb question, but anyway:
the last Codex I own physically is 8th. Back there the "EMPEROR’S CONCLAVE INFANTRY COMPANY" existed. Is something like that still around?

Nope. Specialist detachments are gone entirely, there are no longer any bonuses for taking particular units. The closest thing that still exists would be just taking an infantry-heavy list.

And unrelated to that: As I try to wrap my head around how Platoon works: is there any option (Warlord trait, stratagem, euqipment, whatever) that would allow a REGIMENT (so neither Cadian nor Catachan) Officers order to bounce more than 6'' from the ordered unit?

Nope. 6" is the limit.

Also, REGIMENT works differently now. All officers can give orders to any unit of the appropriate type. A Cadian command squad can give orders to a Catachan infantry squad. The named regiment keywords are now just additional keywords used for things like a stratagem that applies to a single CADIAN unit. Orders do not interact with those keywords at all.

Aecus Decimus wrote:

Nope. 6" is the limit.

Also, REGIMENT works differently now. All officers can give orders to any unit of the appropriate type. A Cadian command squad can give orders to a Catachan infantry squad. The named regiment keywords are now just additional keywords used for things like a stratagem that applies to a single CADIAN unit. Orders do not interact with those keywords at all.

Oh, cool. So just to make sure, lets say I have the following setup:
one big Brigade Detachment with a whole bunch of dudes that have Guerilla Fighters and Recon Operators + a hand full of Catachans, like Sly, Straken, etc.
=> then Straken can order for example an infantry squad in the Guerilla/Recon army and let his order bounce around between them?

Or do the Catachans need their own Detachment? (I heard they don't but I'm not sure)

Pyro - what you've described works fine, and no need for a second detachment. If you are playing the Arks of Omen mission pack you can't take a second detachment anyway! But yeah, all you need is voice of command from an Officer to Platoon (or Squadron for vehicles)

That's pretty neat for me at least. I build and painted two seperate and distinguishable regiments and in 8th it was a bit fiddly to form detachments as one has too many fast attack choices, the other too many elites. Nice to know I now just have to keep an eye on all slots being filled, regardless if some desert-camo guys are listed with the jungle camo guys.

And of course that each officer can order the soldiers of the other force

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Oh, cool. So just to make sure, lets say I have the following setup:
one big Brigade Detachment with a whole bunch of dudes that have Guerilla Fighters and Recon Operators + a hand full of Catachans, like Sly, Straken, etc.
=> then Straken can order for example an infantry squad in the Guerilla/Recon army and let his order bounce around between them?

Correct. Also, note that the Catachans will also get the Guerilla Fighters and Recon Operators doctrine buffs because they have the REGIMENTAL keyword.

Aecus Decimus wrote:

 PaddyMick wrote:
But the malcador weapons don't have 'turret'

Hilariously the hull mounted guns on the Annihilator and Defender do because they got the LRBT's "demolisher battle cannon" which has the turret rule. Still an inexcusably awful unit because of having 18 wounds and only a 3+ save though.

The gun on the Thunderer does as well, despite being literally stuck in the front of the tank (the only way that gun turns is if the tank itself does). Art of War actually mentioned the Thunderer in one of their recent videos and said it might actually be a decent unit now if what you want is a cheap tank with a good gun.