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 Azreal13 wrote:
Honestly I'd feel quite content if they said "look, GB isn't pulling it's weight, we'll commit to the rules for the last four teams we discussed and the we'll call it a day."

Then produced PDFs of the players for the last 4 minor teams, even if they charged for the download, and left players to proxy models.

But as it stands, the GB show has been cancelled after part one of a two part season finale, because the audience was watching it wrong.

This would have been the way to go, imo. And how much would it have cost really, even breaking even would be okay for the community good will and leaving off with a "finished" game (a la Bloodbowl).

As it is, they are burning their wargaming bridges... Hence the Spartan 2.0 comparison. They might not need the market, but it will certainly be hard for them to get it after this if they ever do...

I knew the game was dying due to their lack of engagement with it. I still thought they’d put out the last four Minors and then quietly step aside.

The sale is up. Some pretty good prices on sets.

https://store-uk.steamforged.com/collections/guild-ball-sale

 Monkeysloth wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
Seems weird they would just outright give up on it instead of trying to reboot into Guild Ball 2 or something first. Or just leave Guild Ball as-is and make like "Guild Ball journeyman's league" - with a less competitive minded rule-set.

It's because they got a 5 million pound investment from a Private Equity firm that then loaded the board of directors with their people. Guild Ball didn't bring a high enough return of investment to them so it was killed. GB2, if it ever happens, is more likely to be due to the IP sold to the creators and them leaving SFG and starting a new company for as long as the KSer boardgame money keeps coming in that's what SFG will be doing. Once that stops the PE will part out the company for more short term gains and close down what's left.

I doubt they'd let go of the IP. Plaidhat lost the rights to all of their own stuff after Asmodee gutted them. Familiar situation all around really.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
Seems weird they would just outright give up on it instead of trying to reboot into Guild Ball 2 or something first. Or just leave Guild Ball as-is and make like "Guild Ball journeyman's league" - with a less competitive minded rule-set.

It's because they got a 5 million pound investment from a Private Equity firm that then loaded the board of directors with their people. Guild Ball didn't bring a high enough return of investment to them so it was killed. GB2, if it ever happens, is more likely to be due to the IP sold to the creators and them leaving SFG and starting a new company for as long as the KSer boardgame money keeps coming in that's what SFG will be doing. Once that stops the PE will part out the company for more short term gains and close down what's left.

I doubt they'd let go of the IP. Plaidhat lost the rights to all of their own stuff after Asmodee gutted them. Familiar situation all around really.

There was one of the US game companies, thought it was Plaidhat games, where the founders left and bought back half their game catalog from Asmodee. Was late last year or earlier this year.

 Phobos wrote:

2. LOL @ the whole "Our game was so perfect we had to end it.". Give me a break.

Matt's hubris was always one of my sticking points with the company. From the early kickstarter promotion he's always communicated with this unwavering faith that everything he designs is without the flaws that plague Warmachine or whatever game he felt like throwing under the bus. It's actually the main reason I didn't buy in to the initial Kickstarter. I kind of hoped that the early issues with the game would temper his attitude, but after a while I just kind of had to tune him out.

Update on the sale. Looks like it won't ship to the US. Was going to get one or two things but looks like I won't. Oh well.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
Seems weird they would just outright give up on it instead of trying to reboot into Guild Ball 2 or something first. Or just leave Guild Ball as-is and make like "Guild Ball journeyman's league" - with a less competitive minded rule-set.

It's because they got a 5 million pound investment from a Private Equity firm that then loaded the board of directors with their people. Guild Ball didn't bring a high enough return of investment to them so it was killed. GB2, if it ever happens, is more likely to be due to the IP sold to the creators and them leaving SFG and starting a new company for as long as the KSer boardgame money keeps coming in that's what SFG will be doing. Once that stops the PE will part out the company for more short term gains and close down what's left.

I doubt they'd let go of the IP. Plaidhat lost the rights to all of their own stuff after Asmodee gutted them. Familiar situation all around really.

There was one of the US game companies, thought it was Plaidhat games, where the founders left and bought back half their game catalog from Asmodee. Was late last year or earlier this year.

Definitely PlaidHat. The mostly just got their company name back though to make new stuff. Most of their catalog stayed with Asmodee. There's probably a chunk they retained, but I know they had to give up a lot of the stuff that was personally important like Mice & Mystics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Update on the sale. Looks like it won't ship to the US. Was going to get one or two things but looks like I won't. Oh well.

Did you go to the US version of the site?

https://store.steamforged.com/collections/guild-ball-sale

 LunarSol wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
Seems weird they would just outright give up on it instead of trying to reboot into Guild Ball 2 or something first. Or just leave Guild Ball as-is and make like "Guild Ball journeyman's league" - with a less competitive minded rule-set.

It's because they got a 5 million pound investment from a Private Equity firm that then loaded the board of directors with their people. Guild Ball didn't bring a high enough return of investment to them so it was killed. GB2, if it ever happens, is more likely to be due to the IP sold to the creators and them leaving SFG and starting a new company for as long as the KSer boardgame money keeps coming in that's what SFG will be doing. Once that stops the PE will part out the company for more short term gains and close down what's left.

I doubt they'd let go of the IP. Plaidhat lost the rights to all of their own stuff after Asmodee gutted them. Familiar situation all around really.

PE firms and investors operate like this every second. I would assume that the IP was taken on by whatever parent co controls Steamforged. In the investors eyes, that IP failed, it no longer exists in their world. (but no one else can have it)

Hell, if returns arent as expected on other properties then the investors will be happy to take SFG round the back of the barn.....

Dont expect GB to come back

Just as a point of info, Steamforged Games is mostly (wholly?) owned by Steamforged Holdings Limited (formerly LPH Holdings Limited) which counts among its multiple directors one Ian Livingstone.

Yes, that one.

And he's not the only name with some serious tabletop chops. There are a few familiar names on the list for those who follow the business side of the industry.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10707805/officers

So whatever you may think about SFG, GB and its ownership, it's fair to say that the financial backers of SFG are pretty committed to the delivery of quality games, one way or another.

well one more team wont hurt, meat for the meat god

moved from grumpy to glum but sale spending aside it frees up funds for MCP I guess ( was almost tempted by 40k but t'geedubs geedubbed and im over it)

I'm not sure why Steamforged owning Steamforged should be reassuring... if anything, it implicates them more as faceless bean counters didn't force them to drop the game before finishing the last pieces, they chose to themselves...

 RiTides wrote:
I'm not sure why Steamforged owning Steamforged should be reassuring... if anything, it implicates them more as faceless bean counters didn't force them to drop the game before finishing the last pieces, they chose to themselves...

The investment firm that basically bought SFG rebranded themselves is what precinctomega was saying. It then stacked the board with it's people. Sure lots of them have experience in the tabletop market but it's clear their focus is to be a CMoN style of boardgame manufacturer by the way they handled closing down GB.

Got it... all the more reason not to think they'll support a miniatures system then, though (as opposed to boxed games sold as a one-off).

Edit: Also, sorry if I'm coming off a little sore here, I just had such high hopes for SFG and they keep letting me down . I do understand that model is more profitable, and as what seems like a semi-public company (or at least a company with investors) they need to maximize profits. I just think that doing right by their first product, even if they discontinued it, would actually help them as a company (and thus also their profits) in the long run.

 precinctomega wrote:
Just as a point of info, Steamforged Games is mostly (wholly?) owned by Steamforged Holdings Limited (formerly LPH Holdings Limited) which counts among its multiple directors one Ian Livingstone.

Yes, that one.

And he's not the only name with some serious tabletop chops. There are a few familiar names on the list for those who follow the business side of the industry.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10707805/officers

So whatever you may think about SFG, GB and its ownership, it's fair to say that the financial backers of SFG are pretty committed to the delivery of quality games, one way or another.

Yes Steamforged Games is 100% owned by Steamforged Holdings Limited, it says so in it's last public accounts.

The public confirmation statements for Steamforged Holdings Limited gives more details. Ownership of the holding company used to be a 3 way split between Matt, Rich and Phil before the "investment". 33% each. Afterwards, there's been a bunch of share subdivides and reclassifications, but basically Matt & Rich now own ~15% of the company each, Phil owns no shares (presumably bought out) the other ~70% is the investment firm.

So yes, in very real terms, it's no longer Matt & Rich's company. It wasn't really an investment, it was a buy out.

On a positive note the models from the sale are shipping really fast...

Battlefoam is clearancing their Guild Ball bags, $85 bag for $17.

 AduroT wrote:
Battlefoam is clearancing their Guild Ball bags, $85 bag for $17.

to me, my credit card...

I wanted to buy some extra foam, but its cheaper to just buy the bags instead.

Just to put this in front of different eyes, a group of more prominent players and others (such as token manufacturers and the author of The Longshanks site) are currently undertaking to keep the game moving forward as a community project.

Still some back and forth on the scale and scope, but arguably people out in the world understand the game better than the creators at this point, so this could actually be quite positive for the game.

So apparently Battlefoam’s website F’ed up and wasn’t tracking inventory. Friend purchased six of the bags. They emailed him later and said they didn’t actually have any to give him, he could have one of a different $40 bag instead at the $17 price, and then buy more at regular. He is less than pleased.

 AduroT wrote:
So apparently Battlefoam’s website F’ed up and wasn’t tracking inventory. Friend purchased six of the bags. They emailed him later and said they didn’t actually have any to give him, he could have one of a different $40 bag instead at the $17 price, and then buy more at regular. He is less than pleased.

Can confirm!

Sounds about par for the course regarding Battlefoam.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Just to put this in front of different eyes, a group of more prominent players and others (such as token manufacturers and the author of The Longshanks site) are currently undertaking to keep the game moving forward as a community project.

Still some back and forth on the scale and scope, but arguably people out in the world understand the game better than the creators at this point, so this could actually be quite positive for the game.

Good luck! Community can keep game alive even without creators so it's possible. Going to be rough but not impossible. Hopefully it works out.

 AduroT wrote:
Battlefoam is clearancing their Guild Ball bags, $85 bag for $17.

The problem there is it means supporting Battlefoam.

I'm not a customer - and after the cancer that was Dark Souls KS probably never will be - but I respect their decision to end the game instead of dumbing it down for the unwashed masses so they can drag it on into a miserable unlife like PP tries to.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
but I respect their decision to end the game instead of dumbing it down for the unwashed masses so they can drag it on into a miserable unlife like PP tries to.

Out of interest, what do you mean by that?

Whilst unwashed masses is a little harsh the streamlining (or dumbing down ymmv) of games in the hope of attracting a mythical mass audience usually at the cost of your core fanbase is all to common.

I dont what to come across as any kind of gatekeeper but gaming always seemed to be the go to for those smarter than the average bear, but that no longer fits the make all the moneys rather just making lots of the moneys dogma these days.

Once The Event eases up and I can get some tabletime GB will still be my go to.

Re: dumbing down, I think it's easy to forget the barrier to entry and more importantly the need to maintain knowledge for games you're into. With smaller games, it's a big assumption that your game will have enough draw to keep people not only playing, but playing as one of their primary games. You're competing with other games not only for what draws people in but where their time goes once they're hooked. If a game is highly competitive, it can alienate the casual player base if you need to pay attention to current meta strategies and new rules all the time.

Personally, I've repeatedly had complex games I played really seriously, burnt out, and took a break, and by the time I was interested again things had moved enough that it wasn't worth getting back to being good at the system.

I think you're right to an extent spiralingcadaver, but you'd like to think there is a happy meeting point between complexity and ease of access.

It's interesting to see for instance that Infinity now has a ruleset with more simple rules. I wouldn't say Infinity is overly difficult to grasp, in fact it's a lot more intuitive than games which are far more widespread ("my sniper is going to shoot that chap as he runs between those buildings"), but there is a lot to learn in terms of special rules and new players will get utterly smashed by experienced ones as they get to grips with the tricks and strategies. So, in an effort to reduce that barrier, I can understand why a simpler ruleset is on offer and it will be interesting what route N4 takes (that being said I haven't tried the simplified ruleset so couldn't tell you how effective it has been!)

But I do think you can go too far. I've been reading the AoS rulebook. At the risk of being too graphic, I literally finished the rule mechanics in time it took for me to have one visit to the bog, and I will say this now I fairly fast metabolism (!) Great, very easy to learn, no barrier to entry. But I think back to how with WHFB about the importance of flanking, of the effects of a skilled combatant against a weaker one and a ratio of effectiveness, I could go on. None of those complexities (which in turn give the player tactical choices during the game) are present in AoS. I understand from reading around that there are other choices on the behalf of the player, those seemingly are around unit choice and combination of buffing units to alpha-strike. But, you had that in WHFB as well, and boy does it feel like short change, and you have to think the focus of the game creators is on the overall concept and look of the (admittedly lovely) AoS miniature and stylised high fantasy, rather than the actual content of the game itself.

I haven't yet tried KoW or 9th age - perhaps those are a better example of simplification while keeping some tactical choice on behalf of the player, and whether you would be in a position to go out and start collecting minis and ready to play after a single dump !