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well, infiltrators are 24p.. they have nice aura, but... no T5, no DR or weapon upgrade options..

Infiltrators pay all those points for being able to infiltrate, which is an extremely powerful ability.

Plague marines at 25-27 points would just make them useless again. A fair price would be 22-23 points, as an increase of 4-5 would match the tacticals 3 points multiplied by their additional resilience from DR and T5.
There is no reason why the extra wound on plague marines should cost more than twice as much as the extra wound on tacticals if that wound is not twice as durable.

 Jidmah wrote:
Infiltrators pay all those points for being able to infiltrate, which is an extremely powerful ability.

Plague marines at 25-27 points would just make them useless again. A fair price would be 22-23 points, as an increase of 4-5 would match the tacticals 3 points multiplied by their additional resilience from DR and T5.
There is no reason why the extra wound on plague marines should cost more than twice as much as the extra wound on tacticals if that wound is not twice as durable.

Ofcourse there is a reason you have to pay the not loyalist tax

Personally, I wouldn't celebrate until I see the points and adjustments officially. This is GW we are talking about. They could easily overcost plague marines. Its not like they haven't ever overcosted a unit or model in terms of points before.

GW is clearly listening to popular opinion these days. The more idiots are running around crying for 27 point plague marines or even the replacement of DR with a weaker rule, the more likely it is going to happen.
The only thing you can do about that is call people out on their logical errors and correct them.

Regarding the Daemonic Ritual; In a Patched Play Game, is it possible to summon an under-strenthed unit if you do not have the points saved for a full unit? Fore example one nurgling base?

 Nora wrote:
Regarding the Daemonic Ritual; In a Patched Play Game, is it possible to summon an under-strenthed unit if you do not have the points saved for a full unit? Fore example one nurgling base?

No.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Nora wrote:
Regarding the Daemonic Ritual; In a Patched Play Game, is it possible to summon an under-strenthed unit if you do not have the points saved for a full unit? Fore example one nurgling base?

No.

Okay thanks. I am looking into if there is a cheap way to get a psyker for the primary objective... But maybe this is a dead end.

Are you sure that's a no? Is there a rule I'm missing?

Rihgu wrote:
Are you sure that's a no? Is there a rule I'm missing?

There would have to be a rule to miss in order for it to work - there is no permission to summon understrength units.

 Nora wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Nora wrote:
Regarding the Daemonic Ritual; In a Patched Play Game, is it possible to summon an under-strenthed unit if you do not have the points saved for a full unit? Fore example one nurgling base?

No.

Okay thanks. I am looking into if there is a cheap way to get a psyker for the primary objective... But maybe this is a dead end.

It might just be me - had a few beers - but how do you mean? If you want to get a cheap psycher using summoning, you could always summon a Poxbringer. Apologies if not understanding you right.

I must confess I haven't run blightlords yet (still in the box, DG is a relatively new army for me).

I was always planning to deepstrike them in, that plan didn't change when 9th came round i thought the obvious would be to drop them onto or near a midfield objective and they would be almost impossible to move.

I've now noticed @blackmage say he starts them on the board, i just watch a tabletop tactics vid that also suggests starting them on the board. How does that work exactly? 4" movement just seems like they will miss the whole battle??

Do you advance them first turn? start them on the edge of your deployment? are you running them with combibolters and using the strat to add 6" range? or the rapidfire3 strat? or both? Or are you resigned to the fact that they won't be contributing much in the first two or three turns? I guess if nothing else they are a big distraction carnifex and bullet sponge right from the off...

You always have objective in midfield which even slowpokes like DG terminators should be able to reach within 2 turns. You just stay there and have the battle come to you, because ignoring them will mean losing the battle for your opponent.

But aren't the central objectives generally 12" from your deployment zone? So even front-lining them, they're not gonna be within 3" until turn 3 and won't start scoring until your turn 4 command phase. Unless you advance?

Although I guess if your opponent is already on the objective in your turn 2 you're getting the extra movement from potentially charging them.
Still seems like deploying on your front line and in line with a central objective is a must?

Quite a few of the tournament pack missions have objectives within 7" or less of your deployment edge. It really depends on the mission

dont forget most lists that run Bl runs warptime too, and usually PBC that move 9"+3" average, BL deny the whole central part of table to opponent, no one want engage in melee with them and until PBC are alive, hardly they can be shooted. Pm just play the mission, BL deny it to opponent.

Sorry you've lost me. Why is the pbc significant? Are you using cloud of flies? Or do you mean blighthauler?

Cloud of flies so pbc with a 4++ save are relevant

cloud of flies, gotcha.
final question? what's best loadout for a unit of 10?
2x flails
8x combibolter & axe

Is it worth chucking in a couple of plasma or melta?

I don't know about others but I run 10 blightlord with 2 flails, 8 combi plasma and axes. Its an expensive unit but as others have suggested the pbc can help a lot in keeping them alive. My favorite trick is a lord with the relic pistol and arch contaminator near them. Giving them reroll 1's to hit with the plasma and reroll all failed wounds with the plasma against a target within 18" is devastating, you pretty much own an objective they are heading for that way. Nothing wants to get within 18" of them, and if something does make a mad dash to get them into cc well the flails can handel that normally on their own.

Their speed does hinder them some, but normally what happens is your opponent will try and get on the objective before you because its worth points and they are faster. This helps you because you can shoot 1 target then charge the target on the objective to get them up the field. Only problem i have found is when my opponent tries and alpha rushes me. If they can some how keep the terms locked in my own deployment zone things become harder for the army to handel.

Azuza001 wrote:
I don't know about others but I run 10 blightlord with 2 flails, 8 combi plasma and axes. Its an expensive unit but as others have suggested the pbc can help a lot in keeping them alive. My favorite trick is a lord with the relic pistol and arch contaminator near them. Giving them reroll 1's to hit with the plasma and reroll all failed wounds with the plasma against a target within 18" is devastating, you pretty much own an objective they are heading for that way. Nothing wants to get within 18" of them, and if something does make a mad dash to get them into cc well the flails can handel that normally on their own.

Their speed does hinder them some, but normally what happens is your opponent will try and get on the objective before you because its worth points and they are faster. This helps you because you can shoot 1 target then charge the target on the objective to get them up the field. Only problem i have found is when my opponent tries and alpha rushes me. If they can some how keep the terms locked in my own deployment zone things become harder for the army to handel.

What plague fleets are you using?

Does anyone else use rapier gun battery

I've taken to running a mixed nurgle detachment with nurglings poxbringer for +1 S to spitters and fleshy abundance and a CSM MoN sorcerer for warptime and prescience on the Blightlords. I run Blightlords with combibolters and pop the strat to increase rapid fire volume. 6 shots each with prescience and VotlW is quite effective. Plus you can warptime so 2X advance them turn 1, if lucky with advances they can hit a centre objective

Abaddon303 wrote:
cloud of flies, gotcha.
final question? what's best loadout for a unit of 10?
2x flails
8x combibolter & axe

Is it worth chucking in a couple of plasma or melta?

i always kept them cheap, but consider how many veichles/heavy infantry are played now maybe 8 combiplasmas/2 flails are ok

yeh, the fact it's now only 7pts to upgrade to a combiplas makes it much more tempting in 9th. It's only a 16% increase in cost for much improved firepower...

Someone could do the math for points/damage comparison between:

8x combi-plasma vs. 8x 6 shot rapid fire combi-bolters as plague weapons within DP arch-contaminator aura.

In my experience the combi-bolters do quite good >MEQ lifting. Assuming there is two flails in the 10man unit.

The combi bolter with strat is a very good idea, i never considered that. Add vets or blades of purtrifaction to wound most tough stuff on a 4 or 5.... hmmm.

I go mortarions anvil myself, being able to drop dmg on a big blob of terms by 1 is huge weather you actually use it or not. Sometimes just having access is enough to stop your opponent from doing things.


So doing quick and dirty math hammer.... your doing about 5.5 wounds to a t8 target with just bolters after everything is said and done with 8 combi bolters and 2 flails in that group with vets of the long war.

Alternatively plasma would net you about 17.2 dmg again assuming you have 8 and you used vets of the long war and overcharge.

Both setups assumed reroll 1's to hit and reroll wounds with the relic pistol.

However add the cost in and we are looking at 500 pts for 10 blightlord terms, 8 with combi plasma and 2 with flails. 8 bolter terms would give you 444 pts. 56 pts is significant in our army at this point.


Finally let's consider t7 instead of t8

T7 bolters get you 8.2 wounds, so 8. T7 on plasma will do 19.5, so more than enough to pop a vehicle with room to spare.

This was all done assuming a 3+ save. Honestly the lower the t goes the better the bolters look, shooting at meq the bolters will do about 10 wounds so enough to wipe out a 5 man primaris squad. Plasma will do the same without needing vets though. Its the lack of ap thats hurting the bolters. If you were shooting at a target with 4+ or worse save.... but even then the plasma does more work. Only time the bolters will have the advantage would probably be hordes, and even then you can still fire the bolter part of the plasma and not overcharge.

if you want handle the marines lists that are coming out you need plasma. Remember the stratagem transhuman physiology, wound on 4+ ap0 and 1 damage lead you nowhere, ap-3 and d2 is completely different thing, you keep wound on 4's but they save at 6+ and any failed save mean 1 dead primaris.

I played a game yesterday. Utterly and completely destroyed by Harlequins... I had just about no army left by the bottom of turn 3.

Usually when I lose, I see where I made a mistake(s) or an obvious flaw in my list, but in this case I think its a case of the rules outclassment.

Here's my list

Aux Support
Tzeentch Sorcerer (Cult of Magic, Smite, Astral Blast, Warp Time, Deathhex) (relic +1 to cast)

Deathguard Battalion

Daemon Prince on foot with sword
Sorcerer w/ Blades of Putrification & the +1str/Toughness & Archcontamintor & Wormspitter (could have been nice)

Foul Blightspawn

5 x Plague Marines 2 x Melta, Champ w/ Plasma Gun & Powerfist
5 x Plague Marines 2 x Melta, Champ w/ Plasma Gun & Powerfist
5 x Plague Marines 2 x Melta, Champ w/ Plasma Gun & Powerfist
5 x Plague Marines 2 x Plasma gun, Champ w/ Plasma Gun
5 x Plague Marines 2 x Plasma gun, Champ w/ Plasma Gun
5 x Plague Marines 2 x Plasma gun, Champ w/ Plasma Gun
Rhino w/ Extra Combi-bolter
Rhino w/ Extra Combi-bolter
Dreadclaw (magnificent) w/ Mutated Monstrosity
Defiler with Combi-bolter & Scourge & Mutated Monstrosity
Plagueburst Crawer w/ Sluggar & Entropy Cannon
Plagueburst Crawer w/ Sluggar & Entropy Cannon
3 x Chaos Spawn


I played against (Frozen Stars (+1 charge)
Shadowseer
Shadowseer
Troupe Master (Twilight Fang)
Solitaire
Death Jester (Humble Cruelty)
Death Jester (Humble Cruelty)
5x Harlequin Troop, 2 x Kiss, 2 x Caress, 2 x Fusion Pistol
5x Harlequin Troop, 2 x Kiss, 2 x Caress, 2 x Fusion Pistol
5x Harlequin Troop, 2 x Kiss, 2 x Caress, 2 x Fusion Pistol
5x Harlequin Troop, 2 x Kiss, 2 x Caress, 2 x Fusion Pistol
5x Harlequin Troop, 2 x Kiss, 2 x Caress, 2 x Fusion Pistol
6 Bikes with Haywire Cannons & Glaives
6 Bikes with Haywire Cannons & Glaives
Transport w/ 2 Shuriken Cannons
Transport w/ 2 Shuriken Cannons
Transport w/ 2 Shuriken Cannons
Transport w/ 2 Shuriken Cannons


I did not get first turn.
T1 One unit of bikes got moved twice and blasted my defiler to bits. He took 3 objectives (5 objective mission)
T1 for me... I unloaded my transports and shot and charged that bike unit and used the momvement to get up on my two objectives and put a 5 man unit in the center to contest, knowing they would die. I also warptimed my dreadclaw deep into his army, I wanted to blow it up and catch his army in the blast... as it was I got 4 units in the thermal jets. I actually thought I was going to be just fine. Also charged his other jetbike unit with dreadclaw, rhino, and troop squad... thought I could at least half... .... I was wrong.

t2... bikes left combat, shot up my troops and charged another... I lost 5 plagues.
Solitare killed another plague squad
10 harlequins went after another unit... basically I lost 2 rhinos and dreadclaw, and 10 plaguemarines
t2 for me... he made almost all of his saves so I killed 2 harlequins and put 3 wounds on the solitaire. But most of my guys were stuck in combat, and my 2 PBC weren't accurate enough..... not enough guns.

His t3... all my troops were killed. Harlequins leaving combat, shooting, and charging is just too much to deal with. And the demon prince got killed.

The first big change is plaguespitters on my PBC, getting one tied up in combat was lame. The foul blightspawn was okay, all that 4+ invulnerables really ruined my day.

So is it army outclassed or... flawed build strategy on my part? Or did I really get out of my transports too soon. (my plasma guns were useless without being able to supercharge them). All bikes and transports had a native -1 to hit.

that is one kind of list why im testing much more heavy fire, 9th edition will be the veichles edition and lack good and reliable antitank is a problem, i started to list 3x dual twin linked lascannon contemptors, 12 ab 2+ lascannons shoots plus entropy cannons (if really needed, but i stills suggest to play spitters so -1 to hit are a no issues) can deal with transports, no matter if they have 4++ invul. Another suggestion is play 9-10 men plague marines units with biologus, the grenade stratagem is too strong, itself it can delete 1 unit each turn no matter the save they have. If you play 3x9 plague and screen them properly with PBC you should deliver some damage, or play just 1 ten men squad with biologus loaded into dreadclaw or termite, unload use the +6 range to plague weapons throw 10d6 grenade and cancel anything. Play 3x PCB with spitters , it's the best tank in the game, if you have ironclot furnace they are nearly unkillable.
PS: but with deathhex....how is possible you cant reset 1 unit each turn?