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Mira Mesa

Ah, excuse me, you're right. 4 squads of Eradicators is not legal. I'd seen a list posted in theory, but I didn't think much of it. My mistake.

You're right, every competitive list I've seen is taking the maximum number of Eradicators allowed.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/08/31 18:01:05


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 DarkHound wrote:
Every competitive Space Marine list I've seen has included at least 2x3 Eradicators, and sometimes even 4x3.


Oh dear, is this because in the app a Dark Angels Eradicator Squad is a different datasheet from a Space Marine Eradicator Squad, and the rules only state currently that Daemon Princes and GSC/AM units are considered to be the same datasheet? That's disgusting.

Like most things in life, you follow the money trail to determine value. When I parsed out my Indomitus marines to sell individually, the Eradicators and Judiciar were bought immediately at inflated costs while the rest hasn't (Assault Intercessors are basically given away). I do think a lot of the outrage towards Eradicators has to do with 8th edition mindset where if you kill everything you win, but as people learn that is no longer the case and Eradicators can't offer much in terms of claiming objectives, perhaps they won't be so auto-include?

More likely, though, it's just 360 points of brutal killing efficiency that leaves you lots of points leftover to deal with objectives...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/31 18:16:54


   
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 Mr Morden wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 DarkHound wrote:
I mean, since it seems like the reasons Eradicators are too strong are falling on deaf ears, would the nay sayers prefer examples?

Goonhammer featured an article two weeks ago that looked at the top winning competitive armies. The two highest placing armies were Salamanders and Iron Hands, both with 3x3 Eradicators. Every competitive Space Marine list I've seen has included at least 2x3 Eradicators, and sometimes even 4x3. To Breton specifically, the top Salamander army is already unconventionally running Landspeeders. However, even they didn't bother with Multi-melta Landspeeders in favour of Eradicators. If that isn't a directly damning example of their efficiency compared to other options, nothing is.

Maybe you don't see the reason why Eradicators are strong. However, empirical evidence shows they are game-warpingly strong. Every competitive player runs them if they can, or builds specifically to counter them if they can't. If you don't understand why they are strong, that points to your misunderstanding, not their consensus experience.


Well since 4x3 isn't a legal army that raises questions.


Sigh - thats the only thing you took from that post?....


No, but it was the most interesting point to me personally. Every other point on how effective the unit is has been covered in here.
   
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Also:

2x Land Speeder w/ Multi Melta vs. 1x Eradicator Section

Cost:
Land Speeders are 20 points more.

Resiliency:
2x T5 Sv3+ W6 in 1-2 units versus 3x T5 Sv3+ W3 in 1 unit.
This gets into the realm of weapon profileration, but the Land Speeders have a advantage against D1, and D3-5. The Eradicators are equal against D2, D1d3, and D1d6 and have an advantage against D6+.This is a pretty marginal benefit to the Land Speeders

Mobility:
Land Speeders are faster and Fly, but Eradicators are INFANTRY. The Land Speeders have a distinct advantage base, and mitigation for the Eradicators puts them off board T1.

Firepower:
Eradicators have a massive advantage here though, 50% more firepower in all cases. Most importantly, at >12", a Land Speeder Squadron only kills even a Rhino about half the time, and hardly ever kills a Leman Russ, while an Eradicator Section almost never fails to kill a Rhino, and kills a Leman Russ about half the time. Up close, a Land Speeder Squadron improves to about a 40% chance of killing a Leman Russ tank versus a Eradicator section that improves to virtually never failing. That's a sizable practical improvement.



So all in all, I would say that Eradicators are definitely better than a pair of Land Speeders. For their cost, they basically outclass everything [in a codex where basically everything already outclasses other codecies], and are very resilient to boot. Other units [in the same codex] with similar firepower are either much more fragile or cost much more for resilience and still provide less firepower.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/08/31 18:43:01


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Not Online!!! wrote:
The very fact that 3 of them cost 15 pts more then a singular obliterator , should maybee give pause for thought.


Not a ton though.

Let's pretend Eradicators didn't have double tap.

3 24" melta shots for 120 vs 6 S8 AP2 D2 (on average, yes, I know it can be worse) for 105. (14% more points)

And for durability? 3 melta wounds will on average kill 3 Eradicators where that would kill one obliterator. Additionally, the Eradicators have no agency and the Obliterator can get a lucky set of 5s. 163 lasgun shots to kill Eradicators and 142 to kill 1 Obliterator (80ish to 50is vs Intercessors).

So....they're really not that much more durable when it comes to bigger guns (and not remarkably worse against small arms where I'd be upset of a score of Intercessors were used to take out a single model - smoothed a bit by the point disparity) and their damage without double tap doesn't really stir up any emotion does it? Add in they're paying 15 points more and have no deepstrike and as such have to pay CP to be safe (but don't always).

In a world where multimeltas on attack bikes are super fast you're forced to hide in case you go second coupled with the fact that most marine lists are loaded with gravis armor and that melta will absolutely murder them... it makes it seem like Eradicators won't see as much table time even with double tap - points permitting.

So they need double tap, but it creates a difficult position when 9 of them are on the table.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/31 19:28:54


 
   
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 Bosskelot wrote:
Bringing up character support and psychic powers for FD's isn't exactly helping the point though. Eradicators can also benefit from amazing character support, amazing stratagems, amazing doctrines, amazing litanies and amazing psychic powers.

That's kind of the point. Fire Dragons need the extra support in order to approach anything remotely effective. Eradicators are already incredibly effective and efficient on their own... but also get access to incredible buffs that are far above any other army too.

The point I was making was ability to support. Eradicators need to be within 6 inches to get support typically where firedragons can get it at 24". It is pretty significant for suicide anti tank units (which both of these units are). Suicide units typically are not going to be in your 6 inch auras.

That being said. Eradicators are very good. Too good for their cost. They should be 50 points - not 40.

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 Xenomancers wrote:
 Bosskelot wrote:
Bringing up character support and psychic powers for FD's isn't exactly helping the point though. Eradicators can also benefit from amazing character support, amazing stratagems, amazing doctrines, amazing litanies and amazing psychic powers.

That's kind of the point. Fire Dragons need the extra support in order to approach anything remotely effective. Eradicators are already incredibly effective and efficient on their own... but also get access to incredible buffs that are far above any other army too.

The point I was making was ability to support. Eradicators need to be within 6 inches to get support typically where firedragons can get it at 24". It is pretty significant for suicide anti tank units (which both of these units are). Suicide units typically are not going to be in your 6 inch auras.

That being said. Eradicators are very good. Too good for their cost. They should be 50 points - not 40.
T5 3+ W3 with 24" guns are a suicide unit?

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 DarkHound wrote:

You're right, every competitive list I've seen is taking the maximum number of Eradicators allowed.


Many marines are not taking 3x3 and have still done well. Fling Monkey #1 was 6, 9 BGV, lots of Aggressors, 6 Outriders, Grav Devs & Pod. 9 Eradicators also only really features in Salamander lists. While you'll usually see 3 in WS lists they don't revolve around them at all.

(This doesn't mean they're not really good)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/31 19:11:08


 
   
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 JNAProductions wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Bosskelot wrote:
Bringing up character support and psychic powers for FD's isn't exactly helping the point though. Eradicators can also benefit from amazing character support, amazing stratagems, amazing doctrines, amazing litanies and amazing psychic powers.

That's kind of the point. Fire Dragons need the extra support in order to approach anything remotely effective. Eradicators are already incredibly effective and efficient on their own... but also get access to incredible buffs that are far above any other army too.

The point I was making was ability to support. Eradicators need to be within 6 inches to get support typically where firedragons can get it at 24". It is pretty significant for suicide anti tank units (which both of these units are). Suicide units typically are not going to be in your 6 inch auras.

That being said. Eradicators are very good. Too good for their cost. They should be 50 points - not 40.
T5 3+ W3 with 24" guns are a suicide unit?

Suicide units break cover and attack their priority target. They are short ranged and deal more damage than they can take. at 150 points (at 50 points per model like they should be) they aren't durable at all for that cost. My doom scythe would love to shoot at them. Wound on 2's - you get no save - and flat 3 damage for 1 shots. Easy money. My 130 point vindicator wouldn't mind shooting at them ether it's a lot more durable than eradicators too.

The issue right now is they are 120 points. They are way less suicide and much more front line battle troops at those prices. Knew they instant I saw they they cost to little.

On the subject I much prefer vindicators over eradicators.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/31 19:27:38


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Mira Mesa

 Daedalus81 wrote:
 DarkHound wrote:
You're right, every competitive list I've seen is taking the maximum number of Eradicators allowed.
Many marines are not taking 3x3 and have still done well. Fling Monkey #1 was 6, 9 BGV, lots of Aggressors, 6 Outriders, Grav Devs & Pod. 9 Eradicators also only really features in Salamander lists. While you'll usually see 3 in WS lists they don't revolve around them at all.

(This doesn't mean they're not really good)
Sure, but we're splitting hairs a bit. The top two lists at Flying Monkey were both Salamanders featuring multiple units of Eradicators as their primary anti-tank. It could be argued that they took fewer specifically because their faction synergy improved them and rendered more redundant.

It's not quite fair to say 9 Eradicators only feature in Salamander lists. The Iron Hands that took second at the Vanguard Grand Series ran 9. The fact that other Chapters take them as their primary anti-tank despite not having any extra synergies is further evidence that they're too efficient. White Scars should really be incentivized to take Attack Bikes or Landspeeders over Eradicators, but they aren't.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/31 19:29:03


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 Daedalus81 wrote:
 DarkHound wrote:

You're right, every competitive list I've seen is taking the maximum number of Eradicators allowed.


Many marines are not taking 3x3 and have still done well.
Because the Marine book + Supplements are really strong. Eradicators are a really, really strong unit in an already really good codex. To top it off the book already has a bunch of capable "Melta-delivery" units. Command Squads, Sternguard, Devastators, Land Speeders, Bikes and Attack Bikes.

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 DarkHound wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 DarkHound wrote:
You're right, every competitive list I've seen is taking the maximum number of Eradicators allowed.
Many marines are not taking 3x3 and have still done well. Fling Monkey #1 was 6, 9 BGV, lots of Aggressors, 6 Outriders, Grav Devs & Pod. 9 Eradicators also only really features in Salamander lists. While you'll usually see 3 in WS lists they don't revolve around them at all.

(This doesn't mean they're not really good)
Sure, but we're splitting hairs a bit. The top two lists at Flying Monkey were both Salamanders featuring multiple units of Eradicators as their primary anti-tank. It could be argued that they took fewer specifically because their faction synergy improved them and rendered more redundant.

It's not quite fair to say 9 Eradicators only feature in Salamander lists. The Iron Hands that took second at the Vanguard Grand Series ran 9. The fact that other Chapters take them as their primary anti-tank despite not having any extra synergies is further evidence that they're too efficient. White Scars should really be incentivized to take Attack Bikes or Landspeeders over Eradicators, but they aren't.


We'll likely see the WS bit change when the weapon changes are official. There's no doubt that cheap Eradicators lead to an over abundance of Aggressors and other units though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Insectum7 wrote:
To top it off the book already has a bunch of capable "Melta-delivery" units. Command Squads, Sternguard, Devastators, Land Speeders, Bikes and Attack Bikes.


Well, yea, I think that's the premise of the OP. In context of what's coming Eradicators seem like they have less of an edge in comparison. Whether the speed, delivery, or other trade-offs are worthwhile remains to be seen. I'm not holding out for a points hit to most units - traits, strats, and other tweaks will be more likely.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/31 19:34:04


 
   
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 Daedalus81 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
The very fact that 3 of them cost 15 pts more then a singular obliterator , should maybee give pause for thought.


Not a ton though.

Let's pretend Eradicators didn't have double tap.

and this is were your whole theory just kinda yeets itself out a window into the car of the non existent editor for GW

3 24" melta shots for 120 vs 6 S8 AP2 D2 (on average, yes, I know it can be worse) for 105. (14% more points)

And for durability? 3 melta wounds will on average kill 3 Eradicators where that would kill one obliterator. Additionally, the Eradicators have no agency and the Obliterator can get a lucky set of 5s. 163 lasgun shots to kill Eradicators and 142 to kill 1 Obliterator (80ish to 50is vs Intercessors).

So....they're really not that much more durable when it comes to bigger guns (and not remarkably worse against small arms where I'd be upset of a score of Intercessors were used to take out a single model - smoothed a bit by the point disparity) and their damage without double tap doesn't really stir up any emotion does it? Add in they're paying 15 points more and have no deepstrike and as such have to pay CP to be safe (but don't always).

In a world where multimeltas on attack bikes are super fast you're forced to hide in case you go second coupled with the fact that most marine lists are loaded with gravis armor and that melta will absolutely murder them... it makes it seem like Eradicators won't see as much table time even with double tap - points permitting.

So they need double tap, but it creates a difficult position when 9 of them are on the table.

The simple fact, that you can spend 1 CP just to DS 2, makes this entirely redundant. The fact that this is also the average taken, ignoring the slew of worse results, like D1 or Ap-1 or s 7, or the simple fact that you ignore an innate Ability that will be triggerd 99% of the time because it basically has NO condition, since this is a specialist ANTI tank unit makes this honestly an excercise for nothing.

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Mira Mesa

 Insectum7 wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 DarkHound wrote:
You're right, every competitive list I've seen is taking the maximum number of Eradicators allowed.
Many marines are not taking 3x3 and have still done well.
Because the Marine book + Supplements are really strong. Eradicators are a really, really strong unit in an already really good codex. To top it off the book already has a bunch of capable "Melta-delivery" units. Command Squads, Sternguard, Devastators, Land Speeders, Bikes and Attack Bikes.
No man, he means those other Marines take 2x3 instead of 3x3. The only winning lists I've seen that didn't field multiple Eradicators are one Space Wolf list before GW fixed their global ObSec that took second at the Adelaide GT, and an Ultramarines list that took 4th at the same GT. The Space Wolf list went all-in on ObSec Wulfen, so we can just ignore it because it doesn't exist anymore. The Ultramarine list is interesting; it opted for Contemptor and Leviathan Dreadnoughts with a horde of Primaris infantry.

So basically there's been 1 tournament placing (4th place) Space Marine list that didn't use Eradicators, but it opted for the other underpriced firepower. I'm sure if the Ultramarines needed melta, they'd have taken Eradicators because no other melta options are seeing any play.

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Not Online!!! wrote:
and this is were your whole theory just kinda yeets itself out a window into the car of the non existent editor for GW


Would you or would you not take Eradicators if they did not have double tap? Place this thought in context of known upcoming changes.

Double tap is definitely too much. No benefit is likely too little. I have absolutely no idea what GW intends to do out of the gate with the new book that would make them seem palatable to the rest of the game.
   
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When eradicators were previewed I was assuming they’d be at least 60 points each, and still excited to run them.

40 points each is just silly. They’re cheaper than aggressors for crying out loud.
   
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 Daedalus81 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
and this is were your whole theory just kinda yeets itself out a window into the car of the non existent editor for GW


Would you or would you not take Eradicators if they did not have double tap? Place this thought in context of known upcoming changes.

Double tap is definitely too much. No benefit is likely too little. I have absolutely no idea what GW intends to do out of the gate with the new book that would make them seem palatable to the rest of the game.


Given that they already have a inbuilt strat in double tap - what do we think the strat they will undoubtably get will do?

Triple Tap.
Double Damage
Deepstrike and shoot before shooting phase.


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 Daedalus81 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
and this is were your whole theory just kinda yeets itself out a window into the car of the non existent editor for GW


Would you or would you not take Eradicators if they did not have double tap? Place this thought in context of known upcoming changes.

Double tap is definitely too much. No benefit is likely too little. I have absolutely no idea what GW intends to do out of the gate with the new book that would make them seem palatable to the rest of the game.


Honest answer , i dislike their look, so never, however, if only one shot then i'd assume their pts would drop to about 30 ppm. Then yes, which would Make them somewhat comparable to combimelta terminators. In another slot.


Granted and you have a point, they will get changed , if gw will insist in keeping the doubletapping then at least i expect atleast 5-10 PPM more .


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 Ordana wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
The issue is that Eradicators blow the anti-tank options of virtually every other faction in the game out of the water.

Just compare them to Fire Dragons, for example.

The fact that Marine players look at them and think 'well, they're okay, but I've got better stuff...' is neither a point in their favour, nor a point in the favour of the Marine codex in general.

Fire Dragons were already garbage as anti-tank. Saying Eradicators are better than garbage says literally nothing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Another point of comparison: 6 combi-melta/melta Chosen. Same number of shots, 33% less wounds, T4 vs eradicators T5, and half the range. 150 points for the squad, 30 points or 25% more than eradicators. Figure that "balance" out.

You mean a unit nobody would dare use? How is that valid for comparison?
So your saying all units that are remotely equivalent to Eradicators are bad, and yet Eridcators are not priced like all these other bad units.

Do you see why people complain about Eradicators being broken?

If you don't think Eradicators are broken, then how about you bring up a better comparison that proves they are not broken.
And I dare you to chose a unit that isn't space marines.

Uh I wouldn't compare them to any Melta unit basically because Melta has basically been THAT bad for the whole of 8th. I suppose for the points two Scion command squads pack 8 shots compared to six. The range is shorter but they have built in Deep Strike, so that's kinda moot. Plus I'd rather just Plasma at that point. The weight of fire of 16 Plasma shots fares better against most targets I wanna go after (elite infantry) and can semi-function targeting something bigger.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/31 20:24:56


CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
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 argonak wrote:
When eradicators were previewed I was assuming they’d be at least 60 points each, and still excited to run them.

40 points each is just silly. They’re cheaper than aggressors for crying out loud.

At 60 points they are straight bad though...Just take a look at what you can get for 180 points or less...
relic Contemptor with 2x MM and a cylone is 180...Way more durable - faster -hits better and it's not a heavy support ether.
At 150 the choice is more interesting. But still not really...Ill take the contemptor all day for 30 more points. 6 d6 damage shots for 170 on a better platform compared to 150 for 6 all melta shots (likely hitting on 4's due to having advanced) compared to contemptor hitting on 2's.
At 120 the choice is obvious...Eradicators have much more upside with 50 points saved and still 6 d6 damage shots.

Between 45 and 50 per model seems right.

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 Xenomancers wrote:

relic Contemptor with 2x MM and a cylone is 180...Way more durable - faster -hits better and it's not a heavy support ether.


Basing your entire argument on Relic Contemptors not being one of the most undercosted units on the table says a lot about your argument. There's a reason they're showing up in equal numbers with Eradicators.
   
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Eradicators are better than regular dreads at anti tank (contemptor or otherwise), and I’d have to think carefully about the relic one.

Also, in a world of multi wound high save elite infantry, they are not bad at anti personnel either.

Honestly, a list of aggressors, eradicators, an infiltrator, intercessors, a couple impulsors, captain and lieutenant sounds extremely bland but very effective. Add minimal flavor depending on chapter and i
That’s it?
   
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Grey40k wrote:
Eradicators are better than regular dreads at anti tank (contemptor or otherwise), and I’d have to think carefully about the relic one.

Also, in a world of multi wound high save elite infantry, they are not bad at anti personnel either.

Honestly, a list of aggressors, eradicators, an infiltrator, intercessors, a couple impulsors, captain and lieutenant sounds extremely bland but very effective. Add minimal flavor depending on chapter and i
That’s it?

How much does currently cost a double TL lascannon dread? I would assume those would at least work ok...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/31 21:43:59


 
   
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Grey40k wrote:
Eradicators are better than regular dreads at anti tank (contemptor or otherwise), and I’d have to think carefully about the relic one.

Also, in a world of multi wound high save elite infantry, they are not bad at anti personnel either.

Honestly, a list of aggressors, eradicators, an infiltrator, intercessors, a couple impulsors, captain and lieutenant sounds extremely bland but very effective. Add minimal flavor depending on chapter and i
That’s it?
You have just described every almost every flavour of competitive Space Marines. The only thing you're missing is the Drop Pod full of Grav Amp Devastators that's in literally every army list.

You either go Eradicators and Aggressors with a flood of Primaris infantry (and a Grav Dev Drop Pod).

Or you go Contemptors with a flood of Primaris infantry (and a Grav Dev Drop Pod).

Sometimes you take a couple Repulsors with Infiltrators (and a Grav Dev Drop Pod, though this list hasn't won anything yet).

The biggest exception is Alex Harrison’s Salamanders that won Vanguard Tactics Grand Series. It uses two Scouts with Landspeeder Storms instead of a flood of Primaris infantry. But the core of the army is still 9 Aggressors and 9 Eradicators (and a Grav Dev Drop Pod).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/31 21:45:14


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 DarkHound wrote:
Grey40k wrote:
Eradicators are better than regular dreads at anti tank (contemptor or otherwise), and I’d have to think carefully about the relic one.

Also, in a world of multi wound high save elite infantry, they are not bad at anti personnel either.

Honestly, a list of aggressors, eradicators, an infiltrator, intercessors, a couple impulsors, captain and lieutenant sounds extremely bland but very effective. Add minimal flavor depending on chapter and i
That’s it?
You have just described every almost every flavour of competitive Space Marines. The only thing you're missing is the Drop Pod full of Grav Amp Devastators that's in literally every army list.

You either go Eradicators and Aggressors with a flood of Primaris infantry (and a Grav Dev Drop Pod).

Or you go Contemptors with a flood of Primaris infantry (and a Grav Dev Drop Pod).

Sometimes you take a couple Repulsors with Infiltrators (and a Grav Dev Drop Pod, though this list hasn't won anything yet).

The biggest exception is Alex Harrison’s Salamanders that won Vanguard Tactics Grand Series. It uses two Scouts with Landspeeder Storms instead of a flood of Primaris infantry. But the core of the army is still 9 Aggressors and 9 Eradicators (and a Grav Dev Drop Pod).


Good point. I don’t see this as an ideal situation, all those units look too point efficient.
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Xenomancers wrote:
 argonak wrote:
When eradicators were previewed I was assuming they’d be at least 60 points each, and still excited to run them.

40 points each is just silly. They’re cheaper than aggressors for crying out loud.

At 60 points they are straight bad though...Just take a look at what you can get for 180 points or less...
relic Contemptor with 2x MM and a cylone is 180...Way more durable - faster -hits better and it's not a heavy support ether.
At 150 the choice is more interesting. But still not really...Ill take the contemptor all day for 30 more points. 6 d6 damage shots for 170 on a better platform compared to 150 for 6 all melta shots (likely hitting on 4's due to having advanced) compared to contemptor hitting on 2's.
At 120 the choice is obvious...Eradicators have much more upside with 50 points saved and still 6 d6 damage shots.

Between 45 and 50 per model seems right.
pricing Eradicators off of the Relic Contemptor that erroneously got reduced in points to make all Contemptors the same cost.

Yeah that totally isn't going to give you a bad number...

Eradicators at 60 points would still be good. The only reason Marines might leave them at home for that price is because there are so many undercosted units SM's have access to right now.
   
Made in gb
Walking Dead Wraithlord






 DarkHound wrote:
Grey40k wrote:
Eradicators are better than regular dreads at anti tank (contemptor or otherwise), and I’d have to think carefully about the relic one.

Also, in a world of multi wound high save elite infantry, they are not bad at anti personnel either.

Honestly, a list of aggressors, eradicators, an infiltrator, intercessors, a couple impulsors, captain and lieutenant sounds extremely bland but very effective. Add minimal flavor depending on chapter and i
That’s it?
You have just described every almost every flavour of competitive Space Marines. The only thing you're missing is the Drop Pod full of Grav Amp Devastators that's in literally every army list.

You either go Eradicators and Aggressors with a flood of Primaris infantry (and a Grav Dev Drop Pod).

Or you go Contemptors with a flood of Primaris infantry (and a Grav Dev Drop Pod).

Sometimes you take a couple Repulsors with Infiltrators (and a Grav Dev Drop Pod, though this list hasn't won anything yet).

The biggest exception is Alex Harrison’s Salamanders that won Vanguard Tactics Grand Series. It uses two Scouts with Landspeeder Storms instead of a flood of Primaris infantry. But the core of the army is still 9 Aggressors and 9 Eradicators (and a Grav Dev Drop Pod).


Thank you for your posts breaking things down.

From my point of view, its not so much eradicators, just that marines have a wealth of options. Nerfing one combo or unit pt cost doesn't really solve the dominance issue like with historical overpowered builds, because theres still several less efficient (but still better than other factions with all the rules stacks, auras and relics) choices waiting to take its place.. Eradicators are just another such unit in a long que of units and they are pointed in such a way as you don't make a list around them which further proves the point.. Other factions will have to spend 300pts on a unit and another 200-300 pts on support for somewhat similar AT unit.

Eradicators can just be there. Hang around a captain or whatever.. and if they die/get pt hike or nerf you still have multitude of other incredibly efficient choices running around so it doesn't even matter. There's just a myriad of builds and combos. But people have been trying to argue that things like T1 drop pods and infiltrating dreads are fair in the time when every factions has lost DS t1 ability and infiltration because reasons..

I wonder why people seek out this validation trying so hard to prove that unitx/codex x is not better than all other (where its clearly is)..Nobody cares. So why try to twist things?
It wont last, sooner or later something even more absurd will take its place. Power creep is going to be strong in this one I think. I dread what the chaos and Eldar codexes will bring..

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/09/01 01:02:56


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in us
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Annandale, VA

Sterling191 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:

relic Contemptor with 2x MM and a cylone is 180...Way more durable - faster -hits better and it's not a heavy support ether.


Basing your entire argument on Relic Contemptors not being one of the most undercosted units on the table says a lot about your argument. There's a reason they're showing up in equal numbers with Eradicators.


I hate to sound salty but yeah, it's really telling when anytime you compare them to a middle-of-the-road, average, not super underwhelming but not meta busting unit (even when said units regularly show up in tournament lists), the response is 'that's not fair because [x] unit sucks'. Then they're instead compared to some of the best units in the entire game and the argument is 'see, they're not that much better'. Yeah, I guess when you compare to the criminally undercosted Relic Contemptor rocking two multi-meltas with the upcoming literal double effectiveness buff then significantly nerfed 60pt Eradicators wouldn't seem super powerful. Funny that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/31 23:22:24


   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




Australia

 catbarf wrote:
Sterling191 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:

relic Contemptor with 2x MM and a cylone is 180...Way more durable - faster -hits better and it's not a heavy support ether.


Basing your entire argument on Relic Contemptors not being one of the most undercosted units on the table says a lot about your argument. There's a reason they're showing up in equal numbers with Eradicators.


I hate to sound salty but yeah, it's really telling when anytime you compare them to a middle-of-the-road, average, not super underwhelming but not meta busting unit (even when said units regularly show up in tournament lists), the response is 'that's not fair because [x] unit sucks'. Then they're instead compared to some of the best units in the entire game and the argument is 'see, they're not that much better'. Yeah, I guess when you compare to the criminally undercosted Relic Contemptor rocking two multi-meltas with the upcoming literal double effectiveness buff then significantly nerfed 60pt Eradicators wouldn't seem super powerful. Funny that.


But that's Xenomancer's gameplan. If everything isn't Relic Contemptor or Squigbuggy meta-busting-powerful than it isn't worth the plastic used to print it out
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 Eonfuzz wrote:
 catbarf wrote:
Sterling191 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:

relic Contemptor with 2x MM and a cylone is 180...Way more durable - faster -hits better and it's not a heavy support ether.


Basing your entire argument on Relic Contemptors not being one of the most undercosted units on the table says a lot about your argument. There's a reason they're showing up in equal numbers with Eradicators.


I hate to sound salty but yeah, it's really telling when anytime you compare them to a middle-of-the-road, average, not super underwhelming but not meta busting unit (even when said units regularly show up in tournament lists), the response is 'that's not fair because [x] unit sucks'. Then they're instead compared to some of the best units in the entire game and the argument is 'see, they're not that much better'. Yeah, I guess when you compare to the criminally undercosted Relic Contemptor rocking two multi-meltas with the upcoming literal double effectiveness buff then significantly nerfed 60pt Eradicators wouldn't seem super powerful. Funny that.


But that's Xenomancer's gameplan. If everything isn't Relic Contemptor or Squigbuggy meta-busting-powerful than it isn't worth the plastic used to print it out


in fairness that's hardly unique to him. it seems everyone dismisses any unit that can't one shot a knight etc in round one as worthless.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
 
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