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I wonder if the Death Guard codex might also get the wave of Space Marine Heroes released alongside finally too.

 Super Ready wrote:
Hold up a sec. Are Heavy Intercessors definitely Troops? Because I don't see that anywhere on the datasheet.
I'd be a lot more comfortable with them being Heavy Support, but then that just switches their redundancy away from other Intercessors and onto Aggressors/Centurions instead...

Yep- in the paragraph between the Captain and their slideshow pic:

A Toughness 5 Troops unit with 3 Wounds apiece, anyone?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/12/the-codex-show/

 Marshal Loss wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Anyone got a screen shot of the Death Guard fortification?

That's a pretty cool death gourd

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
Hold up a sec. Are Heavy Intercessors definitely Troops? Because I don't see that anywhere on the datasheet.

The first preview of the Marine Codex gave a peek at the Table of Contents, they're in amongst the other Troops choices.

They were also asked on the stream and confirmed they are troops.

 xttz wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Anyone got a screen shot of the Death Guard fortification?

That's a pretty cool death gourd

Absolute win, sir.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I also need to know if Lias will survive to make it into the next IA Index

No model, no rules.

Which is worrying since I created an Anton Narvaez stand-in using a Shotgun instead of a Plasma Gun (since that's cooler) and I wouldn't really be able to use the model for much else.

Now imagine that but for 2 whole other armies.

So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?

I assume CSM is coming later because it'll have its own new model wave that won't fit now.

Pretty much everything looks great to me. That landspeeder is the first time the Primaris vehicle look has worked right. Heavy Intercessors will probably be auto-takes for chapters that can ignore the move and shoot penalty. For Necrons, it all hinges on Reanimation Protocols.

It'll be interesting if 2W marines moves everyone towards D2, but then Necrons are mostly still 1W and get their durability from RP. It'll mean tough choices in the meta for how much D2 to take.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?

I think it's clear with Thousand Sons and Death Guard especially that overtime GW will likely phase out the Codex: CSM elements of those codex's with unique replacements. It's probably not a coincidence those recycled units lack things like Disgustingly Resilient and said units barely feature as alternate, 'Eavy Metal painted schemes in model spreads.

I do think that standalone loyalist Marine codex's will return once GW start delving into chapter-specific Primaris models however.

The Heavy Intercessors are ... odd.

There's no "need" for them (granted, that can be said about many units, both Imperial and Xeno), but it's not like options are a bad thing.
I think the main reason they where added was so that SM could field Gravis-units in every slot if they so wish.

At ~28-30 ppm (judging by their PL) their offensive output is so sub-par to regular Intercessors on a point-for-point basis that at least I don't think they'll break the meta.

With that said, I'll probably get some because they look rather good - and I like options

Also Theres allready a mistake in the datasheet for the heavy intercessors...
Well done gw.

 MinscS2 wrote:
The Heavy Intercessors are ... odd.

There's no "need" for them (granted, that can be said about many units, both Imperial and Xeno), but it's not like options are a bad thing.
I think the main reason they where added was so that SM could field Gravis-units in every slot if they so wish.

At ~28-30 ppm (judging by their PL) their offensive output is so sub-par to regular Intercessors on a point-for-point basis that at least I don't think they'll break the meta.

With that said, I'll probably get some because they look rather good - and I like options

They seem suited to holding backfield objectives? Their range means they can still support fire. And their sheer resilience will make them a sod to shift.

 Overread wrote:
I mean yeah would have been nice, but at the same time I'm kind of glad to see so many Marine supplements coming out so quickly - gets it over and done with

Dudeface wrote:
They clearly are getting the marines out the way.

 Super Ready wrote:
To those complaining about the Marine releases - think about it. REALLY think about it. We get supplements for the snowflake Chapters up-front and they've already said the existing supplements are compatible - so we're not likely to see new ones for Fists, White Scars etc. for a while at least. The speedy nature of those releases plus the Marines being rolled back into the core Codex tells me that they're going to be considered done with for a time - and that to me says that after the Marine catch-up is done, Xenos and Chaos get their time in the limelight.

Yeah because that worked so well the last time we got a new marine codex and months of marines release. After that, we got an entire release slot for Sisters of Battle codex!!! Sure, it went back to yet another Codex: Space Marines 9.0 just after that, then Codex Necron, then 5 more Space Marine codex supplements. But as soon as they are done with those 5 Space Marines codex supplement, they will be able to release one (1), or maybe two (2) more xenos codex before Codex: Space Marines 9.1 and 12 new marine Codex Supplement becauses the one from 8.1 and from 9 are invalidate by the release of Codex 9.1.
.

Don't forget supplements for individual companies. Plenty room for marine books. Say hello to supplement about blood angels company bloody blood drinkers with more relics and stratagems.

Marines sell. Gw won't stop pushing out marine codexes as that would kill 40k sales.

 Sasori wrote:
I am surprised more people are not happy about the supplements. Getting these almost all out of the way this early clears the way for more actual codexes.

We are in essence getting 7 9th edition codexes in less than 3 months.

hahahahahahahhaaa

If you think that this is "getting the supplements out of the way" than I don't know what to tell you.

This is merely the first wave of Marine books. Clearing these off the schedule just means room for more Marine supplements down the line, which is 100% going to happen. More 1st company supplements! More chapter successor supplements!

If GW wanted to do it right, they would make it mandatory for every Imperium release to have a simultaneous xenos or chaos release that coincides with it. C:SM/Necrons, SW/Tau, SoB/Deldar, Iron Hands supplement/Orks, IG/Eldar, Blood Angels/Eldar supplement etc.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
If GW wanted to do it right, they would make it mandatory for every Imperium release to have a simultaneous xenos or chaos release that coincides with it.

Why would non-Space Marine release have to be put in competition with Space Marines like this?
How about every Space Marine relase has to have a simultaneous non-Space Marine release? Or do you believe that Sisters of Battle or Imperial Guard generally have it better than Chaos Space Marines, somehow?

regarding heavy intercessors. I think GW's goal with Primaris Marines has been to enable a Marine player to play ANY of the companies, including a reserve company viably. honestly I think with this wave Primaris are "mostly complete" unless GW decides to give us a primaris terminator troop unit down the line.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Sasori wrote:


If GW wanted to do it right, they would make it mandatory for every Imperium release to have a simultaneous xenos or chaos release that coincides with it. C:SM/Necrons, SW/Tau, SoB/Deldar, Iron Hands supplement/Orks, IG/Eldar, Blood Angels/Eldar supplement etc.

that'd just mean GW half assing the second release while they focus more on the one that sells better

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I am surprised more people are not happy about the supplements. Getting these almost all out of the way this early clears the way for more actual codexes.

We are in essence getting 7 9th edition codexes in less than 3 months.

hahahahahahahhaaa

If you think that this is "getting the supplements out of the way" than I don't know what to tell you.

This is merely the first wave of Marine books. Clearing these off the schedule just means room for more Marine supplements down the line, which is 100% going to happen. More 1st company supplements! More chapter successor supplements!

If GW wanted to do it right, they would make it mandatory for every Imperium release to have a simultaneous xenos or chaos release that coincides with it. C:SM/Necrons, SW/Tau, SoB/Deldar, Iron Hands supplement/Orks, IG/Eldar, Blood Angels/Eldar supplement etc.

Exactly this.

And if there aren't enough xeno books to mirror the marine ones, maybe stop endlessly printing new marine books.

 vipoid wrote:
And if there aren't enough xeno books to mirror the marine ones, maybe stop endlessly printing new marine books.

That's not how GW think.
GW's version is:
And if there aren't enough xeno books to mirror the marine ones, maybe cut away the Imperial Guard, Mechanicus and Sisters of Battle codex.
Is that what you want?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
And if there aren't enough xeno books to mirror the marine ones, maybe stop endlessly printing new marine books.

That's not how GW think.
GW's version is:
And if there aren't enough xeno books to mirror the marine ones, maybe cut away the Imperial Guard, Mechanicus and Sisters of Battle codex.
Is that what you want?

I mean, I don't consider those to be in the same category as Marines (hence, I wouldn't mind them going alongside marine releases, rather than needing xeno books to balance them).

I take your point, though.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
If GW wanted to do it right, they would make it mandatory for every Imperium release to have a simultaneous xenos or chaos release that coincides with it.

Why would non-Space Marine release have to be put in competition with Space Marines like this?
How about every Space Marine relase has to have a simultaneous non-Space Marine release? Or do you believe that Sisters of Battle or Imperial Guard generally have it better than Chaos Space Marines, somehow?

Erm... I dunno... maybe so the Space Marine poster boys have someone to fight rather than each other? It is supposed to be a 2 sided wargame.
What's the point in having Imperium vs.. well, old stuff we cba to update so no one plays them.

Home for lunch.

STILL nothing about Reanimation?

Dude.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
If GW wanted to do it right, they would make it mandatory for every Imperium release to have a simultaneous xenos or chaos release that coincides with it.

Why would non-Space Marine release have to be put in competition with Space Marines like this?
How about every Space Marine relase has to have a simultaneous non-Space Marine release? Or do you believe that Sisters of Battle or Imperial Guard generally have it better than Chaos Space Marines, somehow?

Erm... I dunno... maybe so the Space Marine poster boys have someone to fight rather than each other? It is supposed to be a 2 sided wargame.
What's the point in having Imperium vs.. well, old stuff we cba to update so no one plays them.

he's not saying non marines shouldn't get a new codex, but by artifically demanding a xenos etc release along side marines it won't work well. and he's right, in that type of situation you're almost garnteed to see A quick codex with nothing new.

 vipoid wrote:
I mean, I don't consider those to be in the same category as Marines (hence, I wouldn't mind them going alongside marine releases, rather than needing xeno books to balance them).

Me neither, but BlaxicanX examples show they do.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Erm... I dunno... maybe so the Space Marine poster boys have someone to fight rather than each other?

You misunderstood my point. My point was that we should reduce the number of Space Marine release, not reduce the number of Imperium release, because if we reduce the number of Imperium release by cutting all non-marine Imperium release (like SoB, IG, Mechanicus, ...) then we still have the problem of too many Marines release, and we removed some nice variety from the game...

As a Blood Angels player, im actually really excited about the assault version of those Gravis Heavy Intercessor's, close combat Space Marine chapters benefit from advancing to get closer to charge/go for objectives, I could really see these shining in a BA list with those assault 3 shots and hopefully a charge at somepoint.

 MinscS2 wrote:
The Heavy Intercessors are ... odd.

There's no "need" for them (granted, that can be said about many units, both Imperial and Xeno), but it's not like options are a bad thing.

More options in a book already overflowing with them, that also take up the design space of a bunch of other non-SM armies is a bad thing IMO. S5 shooting in Troops was something SM lacked that Tau and Necrons could both get access to. Now SM do too. T5 infantry in troops wasn't something SM could do previously, unlike Death Guard. 3W Troops with long range weapons is not a niche SM needed to fill.

It really feels like GW ran out of ideas for SM about 2 years ago but they keep trying to plug gaps that either don't exist or shouldn't be filled. Comparing the Heavy Intercessors to the new Ophydian Destroyers is a good demonstration of how GW have lost their way in designing SM. The Destroyers are fast and good in close combat but they're pretty fragile for their (likely) cost with only a 4+ save and T4 and they have no shooting at all so need to get into combat to be useful. At the very least that makes them an interesting addition to the army. Heavy Intercessors are...pretty good at shooting, ridiculously resilient for a Troops unit and competent enough to deal with any but the most punchy units in close combat thanks to the suite of SM buffs. To top it all off, static firepower isn't really a thing SM should be that good at.

Eh lets face it "Primaris" were clearly just going to be the new edition version of marines until someone in management said "hey why don't we release them at the same time." It explains why they have basically copied every marine unit with a primaris.

It's somewhat messy because I wager most marine players know that at some point the "regular" will be retired and replaced with the Primaris. I suspect most wouldn't mind it if it weren't that GW keeps pushing regular alongside.


In the end GW could keep both lines going for years and years; or they might retire regular tomorrow. Though at least for 9th edition they are set to stay.




Anyway I I'd say this is a good launch for 9th edition. We've seen a Xenos faction get updates to core older plastics and finecast; we've seen them get a plethra of new troops, leaders, elites and more. Necrons have had a huge update and it seems that, as of now, they'll only have a few leaders in finecast and perhaps the destroyer model hanging around in desire of replacement.

Xenos wise I'd say that's an outstanding release.

Sure we've got a load of marine stuff too, but honestly we know that was going to happen, they are the poster army of the game. It would be more abnormal not to have them appear at the start.


Regardless, this leaves the field open for GW turning their eye to other armies. We've already seen (at the last sneak peak) several new models coming for several Xenos armies. There's also constant hope that Eldar Craftworld will get a big revamp of core parts of their lineup.



I'm looking forward to 2021 at this rate.

Wakshaani wrote:
Home for lunch.

STILL nothing about Reanimation?

Dude.

Perhaps they're embarrassed by the rules for it?

 vipoid wrote:

Wakshaani wrote:
Home for lunch.

STILL nothing about Reanimation?

Dude.

Perhaps they're embarrassed by the rules for it?

Reanimation is mentioned at the end as coming in a community article. So likely when we are closer to the pre-order window.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?

Thousand Sons can't work as a supplement since they can't take most of the units in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, like Chaos Space Marines. Or, anything with flesh that isn't a Sorcerer. Heck, even excluding named characters and daemons, there are more units in that Codex they can't take than units that they can.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?

Thousand Sons can't work as a supplement since they can't take most of the units in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, like Chaos Space Marines. Or, anything with flesh that isn't a Sorcerer. Heck, even excluding named characters and daemons, there are more units in that Codex they can't take than units that they can.

That was intentional though. The restrictions for both Death Guard and Thousand Sons are arbitrary just like the ones that were done for the Loyalist Angels and Wolves for the longest time.