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Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




hungryugolino wrote:

You can't blame the customer for the company's exploitative decision making.


If they're buying things they don't actually want... I absolutely can. No one is under any obligation, duress or exploitation to buy primaris (or any other) models.
If they bought them, its because they _wanted_ to, and did so of their own free will.


GW crosses some lines with their FOMO crap, but that has jack to do with their policy about future releases.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/14 17:37:15


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Been Around the Block




 Polonius wrote:
hungryugolino wrote:
I mean, that flat out makes the existence of Primaris players and releases a bad thing for anyone that likes Craftworld Eldar and Guard. That's kinda fethed and it's entirely on GW.


I mean, if you like those armies, but dont' like the models, then sure. Otherwise, buy what's available.

I've been playing guard for 18 years or so, and they've gotten three big waves of releases. Third edition (~2003) with the plastic cadians, plastic heavies, and plastic command; 5th edition (~2010) with valkyries, recut LRTB/Chimeras, and hellhounds, and 6th edition (~2015) with Bullgryn, The Taurox, Scions, and the Wyvvern.

You'd have to go back to the metal regiments of 2nd edition when IG got regular updates to it's model range.

And that doesn't strike you as a crippling issue with GW's approach to releases? Why should Guard players be stuck with a model range older than a good chunk of the playerbase when Primaris are choking on constant new sculpts?

Literally TWO or three sprues could cover a regiment if they go for the 2x5 man approach. It's naked greed and the cancerous Primaris pushing that mean we haven't gotten that.


 
   
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Toledo, OH

hungryugolino wrote:

And that doesn't strike you as a crippling issue with GW's approach to releases? Why should Guard players be stuck with a model range older than a good chunk of the playerbase when Primaris are choking on constant new sculpts?

Literally TWO or three sprues could cover a regiment if they go for the 2x5 man approach. It's naked greed and the cancerous Primaris pushing that mean we haven't gotten that.


so, it obviously hasn't been a crippling issue for 18 years, so I dont think it's gonig to start now.

I think you are very angry about primaris, past the point where I can really relate. It's a toy that a lot of people like, and while I understand that you want different toys, obviously GW is going to keep making the toys that people are buying in huge numbers.
   
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Been Around the Block




 Polonius wrote:
hungryugolino wrote:

And that doesn't strike you as a crippling issue with GW's approach to releases? Why should Guard players be stuck with a model range older than a good chunk of the playerbase when Primaris are choking on constant new sculpts?

Literally TWO or three sprues could cover a regiment if they go for the 2x5 man approach. It's naked greed and the cancerous Primaris pushing that mean we haven't gotten that.


so, it obviously hasn't been a crippling issue for 18 years, so I dont think it's gonig to start now.

I think you are very angry about primaris, past the point where I can really relate. It's a toy that a lot of people like, and while I understand that you want different toys, obviously GW is going to keep making the toys that people are buying in huge numbers.

The problem's been festering all this time, but Primaris are literally the reason the rest of the range isn't getting updates. If you actually like Primaris, that obviously is less of an issue for you, but let's not pretend Primaris aren't direct roadblocks for literally everyone else in the hobby, whether they realize it or not. You may think normalizing GW selling almost 20 year old sculpts is just fine and dandy, but that doesn't magically modernize the sculpts or give more variety.

Saying "it's a toy" doesn't change that the company is pushing some decidedly exploitative and customer-hostile policies in how it approaches those sales.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/14 17:49:35



 
   
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Voss 792025 10926701 wrote:

If they're buying things they don't actually want... I absolutely can. No one is under any obligation, duress or exploitation to buy primaris (or any other) models.
If they bought them, its because they _wanted_ to, and did so of their own free will.


GW crosses some lines with their FOMO crap, but that has jack to do with their policy about future releases.


You know that is like telling a sports doing person that if only he or she doesn't want, he or she can ignore supplments and medication. If my faction is unplayable without PA, and playable with it, am I not forced to buy the book? Same with CA point updates etc. GW spliting factions in to multiple books is the same thing. I didn't like the idea of GW making one codex marines for all marines, but I could accept it as GW being done with majority of marines in one go. But it looks like every BA, DW and SW player is going to have to first buy the marine codex, which will over write points, rules etc. And then if they want to play their own faction, they will have to buy their codex. There is no other way around it, because it is not like a SW player can use older or invalid rules.

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hungryugolino wrote:

Saying "it's a toy" doesn't change that the company is pushing some decidedly exploitative and customer-hostile policies in how it approaches those sales.


I'm still failing to see how GW is exploiting its customers. Can you support this at all? It's a hobby, and I understand being very invested in it (I definitely am), but I don't see how GW's release schedule is harmful.

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Toledo, OH

hungryugolino wrote:
The problem's been festering all this time, but Primaris are literally the reason the rest of the range isn't getting updates. If you actually like Primaris, that obviously is less of an issue for you, but let's not pretend Primaris aren't direct roadblocks for literally everyone else in the hobby, whether they realize it or not. You may think normalizing GW selling almost 20 year old sculpts is just fine and dandy, but that doesn't magically modernize the sculpts or give more variety.

Saying "it's a toy" doesn't change that the company is pushing some decidedly exploitative and customer-hostile policies in how it approaches those sales.


I guess my only other possible reaction other than acceptance would be to post a dozen or so times on a variety of Dakka threads about how Primaris are going to steal your underpants, ruin your credit, and put flouride in your water. OTOH, you seem to have handled that part of it already.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Karol wrote:
Voss 792025 10926701 wrote:

If they're buying things they don't actually want... I absolutely can. No one is under any obligation, duress or exploitation to buy primaris (or any other) models.
If they bought them, its because they _wanted_ to, and did so of their own free will.


GW crosses some lines with their FOMO crap, but that has jack to do with their policy about future releases.


You know that is like telling a sports doing person that if only he or she doesn't want, he or she can ignore supplments and medication. If my faction is unplayable without PA, and playable with it, am I not forced to buy the book? Same with CA point updates etc. GW spliting factions in to multiple books is the same thing. I didn't like the idea of GW making one codex marines for all marines, but I could accept it as GW being done with majority of marines in one go. But it looks like every BA, DW and SW player is going to have to first buy the marine codex, which will over write points, rules etc. And then if they want to play their own faction, they will have to buy their codex. There is no other way around it, because it is not like a SW player can use older or invalid rules.


I haven't bought a codex or PA in a few years. I seem to be doing just fine with the resources available.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/14 17:55:53


 
   
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 Lorek wrote:
hungryugolino wrote:

Saying "it's a toy" doesn't change that the company is pushing some decidedly exploitative and customer-hostile policies in how it approaches those sales.


I'm still failing to see how GW is exploiting its customers. Can you support this at all? It's a hobby, and I understand being very invested in it (I definitely am), but I don't see how GW's release schedule is harmful.

Okay so.

Simply put, GW is making a conscious choice to chase Primaris purchases rather than give basic support for a large fraction of their range. This isn't simple faction favoritism as we've seen for most of 40k, it's the failure state of a company that has obligations to multiple parts of its fanbase.

They aren't just making Primaris more than they are other factions, they're explicitly avoiding making ANYTHING for other factions except where Primaris are involved. Primaris players are the only ones that are guaranteed to get annual updates and constant new releases- which is downright abusive to players of factions which literally are still using troop sets that haven't been modernized since before some of their players were born.

GW making the decision to dedicate all their development time and releases to Primaris means that because rules are also tied to new models, players of those other factions will have worse experiences. So you have a situation where the real playerbase is not only not receiving model support (and constant price hikes on their aging sets, as insult to injury) they've also been overshadowed by slower and worse rules releases to boot, simply by virtue of "new model kit means GW will give them suitably broken rules sometimes in pursuit of sales" (which we've had admissions GW has done more than once- I believe fliers were mentioned in an interview?)

It's a vicious cycle of other factions are neglected->GW tunnel visions on the Primaris->more drones buy into Primaris, rewarding GW's bad decision making -> other factions continue to be neglected...

Until we get 20 years without an update to the range's basic models and a Codex clogged with Primaris no one really asked for.

So basically, because of maladaptive GW decision making, we're in a situation where the entire rest of the hobby is worse off because of the existence of Primaris players pumping more money and reinforcing their current decision making where Primaris get constant releases and everyone else just kind of hopes they get dragged along as an excuse for GW to pretend other factions matter to them. This is toxic and GW needs to commit to a more sensible- and fair- release schedule, even just 1:1 for Primaris/a faction that needs it. No more Primaris waves unless they're accompanied by a full faction modernization.

Realistically,though, Primaris will continue to be a cancer of GW's own making, making that entire segment of the playerbase a threat to everyone else's hobby enjoyment just by existing and reinforcing their bad decision making through their mindless purchases.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/14 18:04:18



 
   
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UK

Um what about those Necrons getting just as big an update at the same time as Primaris? Isn't that exactly what you're asking for?

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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/14 18:09:42


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 Overread wrote:
Um what about those Necrons getting just as big an update at the same time as Primaris? Isn't that exactly what you're asking for?

And if that was what GW had held to as a concrete rule in the first place- an update of that size and scope for neglected factions as a prerequisite for the latest Primaris cash grab, I'd have far fewer concerns. It isn't. (I'll note that Necrons weren't the worst off faction in terms of needing a full range refresh, but I don't begrudge the Necron players getting some attention.)

And if GW follows that model going forwards, I'll quite happily take that- but when you have major factions like Craftworlders and Guard in desperate need of updates, GW needs to actually resolve the problem of models ASAP. They've let the problem fester and in combination with abysmal balancing and cash grab Primaris releases adding to each other, I wouldn't be surprised to see what's left of these playerbases flat out disappear over time.

What motivation do Ork, Eldar, and Guard players have to stick around? Kitbashing or love of lore (which has also been swallowed up by the Primaris malignancy) only goes so far with a lack of GW support, especially with model-driven rules effectiveness.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/09/14 18:13:18



 
   
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Toledo, OH

hungryugolino wrote:
What motivation do Ork, Eldar, and Guard players have to stick around? Kitbashing or love of lore (which has also been swallowed up by the Primaris malignancy) only goes so far with a lack of GW support, especially with model-driven rules effectiveness.


Oddly enough, I spent a good chunk of 8th edition playing in tournaments with my IG, and using my store credit winnings to buy primaris, which were terrible, but I liked them.

   
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Been Around the Block




 Polonius wrote:
hungryugolino wrote:
What motivation do Ork, Eldar, and Guard players have to stick around? Kitbashing or love of lore (which has also been swallowed up by the Primaris malignancy) only goes so far with a lack of GW support, especially with model-driven rules effectiveness.


Oddly enough, I spent a good chunk of 8th edition playing in tournaments with my IG, and using my store credit winnings to buy primaris, which were terrible, but I liked them.


And as the only one left, I'm sure that will be of great comfort to you, but I'm not talking about exceptions that prove the rule. Besides, when you buy the new models, that proves my point about the issue that is lack of updated sculpts.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/14 18:33:23



 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Dunno.

Stuff will come around.

If anybody would've told people a year or 18 months ago that Harlequins and (non Caladius)-AdMech were top tier armies, while the Aberrant menace of the 2019 NOVA Open was widely seen as the worst army in the game (except perhaps for Ynnari), they'd have called you crazy.
   
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True. Specialy the Inari part.

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 A Town Called Malus wrote:

While I agree that this would be ideal, it is just not really feasible for a lot of people due to the environments in which they are able to play. If you are playing in a GW store (obviously ignoring all of the COVID stuff) then you have to use the current rules. Trying to set up a club to play older editions can be a nightmare of deciding on an edition to play, having a venue to play and getting people to actually turn up. Anyone who has played any form of RPG in person knows that getting a load of gamers in one place at one time can sometimes feel like herding cats.


I've never had the desire or need to play in an official GW/Warhammer store, for better or worse. A few years back one opened up in my town, which was always pretty busy with people playing (cool!). But it's unfortunate that those stores are run in such a regimented manner that people aren't even allowed to play with older rules. I understand why (gotta shill the latest thing, come hell or high water), but it's too bad. Seems insane in a way that it is actually a stated policy.

Work continues with my ProHammer (aka 5th edition revival)


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Um what about those Necrons getting just as big an update at the same time as Primaris? Isn't that exactly what you're asking for?


Um ... they aren't. Not by a long shot. This ignores the literal years long cycle Primaris have already had leading up to this. To be anywhere near on-par, we would have to get Necrons released along side nearly every other release for the next two years. Saying that, in the month of October, Necrons will get a huge release that matches what Primaris are also received in the previous month or so is one thing. Suggesting that what 'Crons are getting in October is "just as big an update" of a model line that's seen almost constant releases since the beginning of 8th really isn't very accurate imo.

Mind you I don't WANT my crons to get constant releases over the next few years to the detriment of other lines the way my marines have. I'm just pointing out how silly it is when one side mentions being upset about the lopsided release schedule, and the other side says "HEY! Settle down over there. You're getting that thing in October and it's just as much as WE are getting in October so it's all even!". Because it's only "even" if you ignore the previous few years ... lol

My hope is that after October, they come down off the Primaris train, Crons get a few more releases, and then they spend a lot of time updating everyone else before we circle back to the next Primaris super unit ...

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
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Texas

Lots and lots of salt in this thread that seems to boil down to blacklash againist the current focus on Marine releases.

I have no doubt that if this blacklash actually manifests itself as a sudden downturn in sales and profits, that GW, the profit driven business they are, along with their obligation to their shareholders, desire for more bonsuses, and not the least to stay employeed will take action to correct whatever they believe is causing the unacceptable decline in sales and profits.

However given their current level of profit and overall market proformance along with their current design and production lead times, it will likely take two years or more before you could look back and say GW "fixed" stuff which of course is an eternity in Internet time.

Outside of that, some of you seem to be very angry and hurt to the point that you might want to step back from GW and do something else you like. If you don't have something else you like, then make finding something else you like the priority. Don't let your distaisfaction with how GW is conducting their business steal the joy from your life.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/14 19:00:07


"Preach the gospel always, If necessary use words." ~ St. Francis of Assisi 
   
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Been Around the Block




 Lord of Deeds wrote:
Lots and lots of salt in this thread that seems to boil down to blacklash againist the current focus on Marine releases.

I have no doubt that if this blacklash actually manifests itself as a sudden downturn in sales and profits, that GW, the profit driven business they are, along with their obligation to their shareholders, desire for more bonsuses, and not the least to stay employeed will take action to correct whatever they believe is causing the unacceptable decline in sales and profits.

However given their current level of profit and overall market proformance along with their current design and production lead times, it will likely take two years or more before you could look back and say GW "fixed" stuff which of course is an eternity in Internet time.

Outside of that, some of you seem to be very angry and hurt to the point that you might want to step back from GW and do something else you like. If you don't have something else you like, then make finding something else you like the priority. Don't let your distaisfaction with how GW is conducting their business steal the joy from your life.

Re: how to approach GW and the best approach to the hobby going in a bad direction

The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Positive reactions to their current trends are literally the opposite of what they need to hear. Backlash is literally the best thing people can do in response to this sort of nonsense.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/14 19:03:34



 
   
Made in us
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I have no doubt that if this blacklash actually manifests itself as a sudden downturn in sales and profits, that GW, the profit driven business they are, along with their obligation to their shareholders, desire for more bonsuses, and not the least to stay employeed will take action to correct whatever they believe is causing the unacceptable decline in sales and profits.


I'm actually curious to see if that's the case. I feel like, for every person who says "oh great. Another Marine release.", there's three who are over the moon excited about it. I worry it's one of those things where there's a silent majority essentially gobbling everything up and supporting the schedule. My group is keeping an eye on things, but we've largely stepped back from 9th specifically.

Hoping they clean it up in a few months and it gets better. We shall see.

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
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UK

Considering Indomitus outsold so well GW made another batch, I think sales were good!

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 Lord of Deeds wrote:
Lots and lots of salt in this thread that seems to boil down to blacklash againist the current focus on Marine releases.

I have no doubt that if this blacklash actually manifests itself as a sudden downturn in sales and profits, that GW, the profit driven business they are, along with their obligation to their shareholders, desire for more bonsuses, and not the least to stay employeed will take action to correct whatever they believe is causing the unacceptable decline in sales and profits.

However given their current level of profit and overall market proformance along with their current design and production lead times, it will likely take two years or more before you could look back and say GW "fixed" stuff which of course is an eternity in Internet time.

Outside of that, some of you seem to be very angry and hurt to the point that you might want to step back from GW and do something else you like. If you don't have something else you like, then make finding something else you like the priority. Don't let your distaisfaction with how GW is conducting their business steal the joy from your life.
Take note who speaks salt and backlash. It tends to be rather constant, along with posting in a fair few posts that makes it seem like it's bigger a problem then it is.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/14 19:37:35


 
   
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Toledo, OH

 Lord of Deeds wrote:


Outside of that, some of you seem to be very angry and hurt to the point that you might want to step back from GW and do something else you like. If you don't have something else you like, then make finding something else you like the priority. Don't let your distaisfaction with how GW is conducting their business steal the joy from your life.


I've taken some steps away from 40k in the past. 6th/7th edition was a dark time for rules, and I didn't really play, and only painted to work on stuff I had. It's good to take a break sometimes.
   
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The Great State of New Jersey

 Grimtuff wrote:
 Polonius wrote:
GW doesn't care about cranky long time customers on the internet. They just don't.


So, that's why there constantly dipping into the nostalgia mines for the last several years? Because they don't care.

Um, no. What they are doing is saying that and doing something completely different so they can talk out of both sides of their mouths.

GW: "We don't care about our long term fans. At all."
Also GW "Member Zoats?", "Member Ambulls?", "Member Stealer Cults?", "Member these mini concepts from RT/2nd with a modern spin on them?". The list goes on...


GW is mining its IP for content to produce in order to drive sales, nothing more, nothing less. If it reattracts oldhammer fans who stopped playing a decade or more ago thats a bonus. That doesn't make them care about cranky long time customers on the internet, it only makes them care about cash flows and IP development. Most of the people buying this gak today never engaged with the original content to begin with - I sure as hell didn't, and I've dropped more coin on this stuff than any of the Rogue Trader era vets in my game group.

The problem's been festering all this time, but Primaris are literally the reason the rest of the range isn't getting updates. If you actually like Primaris, that obviously is less of an issue for you, but let's not pretend Primaris aren't direct roadblocks for literally everyone else in the hobby, whether they realize it or not.


How do you figure? GW is literally releasing a half dozen new plastic kits every week, I fail to see how Primaris getting occasional releases means every other faction is getting nothing. FFS, the upcoming new Necron content is the largest single xenos release the game has ever seen and you're complaining about how Primaris are blocking xenos from being updated. Eye. Roll.

Simply put, GW is making a conscious choice to chase Primaris purchases rather than give basic support for a large fraction of their range. This isn't simple faction favoritism as we've seen for most of 40k, it's the failure state of a company that has obligations to multiple parts of its fanbase.


Oh get off it. You're being patently ridiculous. GW has no obligatons to its customers other than ensuring the integrity of the products that are purchased. You are not entitled to jack gak otherwise as a customer, GW doesn't owe you anything, period. If you don't like their business practices, you stop supporting their business, you are not owed any sort of change in policy or practice as a customer. If enough people agree with you, then GWs practices will hurt its bottom line and the "invisible hand" (feth, I'm not even a capitalist) will see to it that they either go under or change their practices in a way more agreeable to the market. The fact that GW continues to see its revenues and profits increase indicates that its a far cry from happening and you represent a very loud and obnoxious minority within GWs customer base.

They aren't just making Primaris more than they are other factions, they're explicitly avoiding making ANYTHING for other factions except where Primaris are involved.


This is news to me, considering all the non-Primaris related new releases that have been pumped out for the game over the past year +. Speed Freeks? Never happened. Adeptus Mechanicus Transports, Flyers, cavalry, and jump-flyers? Figment of our imaginations. Sisters of Battle? What Sisters of Battle, they don't exist. New Daemons units courtesy of Wrath and Rapture? There must have been an invisible Primaris marine in their somewhere. etc.

Primaris players are the only ones that are guaranteed to get annual updates and constant new releases- which is downright abusive to players of factions which literally are still using troop sets that haven't been modernized since before some of their players were born.


So I guess the 2.0 Codexes for Chaos Space Marines wasn't a thing. Nor were any of the udpates that almost every faction received courtesy of Psychic Awakening, White Dwarf, Vigilus, and various other mid-cycle updates, etc.

simply by virtue of "new model kit means GW will give them suitably broken rules sometimes in pursuit of sales" (which we've had admissions GW has done more than once- I believe fliers were mentioned in an interview?)


If by "admission" you mean the opposite of that.

So basically, because of maladaptive GW decision making, we're in a situation where the entire rest of the hobby is worse off because of the existence of Primaris players pumping more money and reinforcing their current decision making where Primaris get constant releases and everyone else just kind of hopes they get dragged along as an excuse for GW to pretend other factions matter to them. This is toxic and GW needs to commit to a more sensible- and fair- release schedule, even just 1:1 for Primaris/a faction that needs it. No more Primaris waves unless they're accompanied by a full faction modernization.

Realistically,though, Primaris will continue to be a cancer of GW's own making, making that entire segment of the playerbase a threat to everyone else's hobby enjoyment just by existing and reinforcing their bad decision making through their mindless purchases.


I think you need to step back from the hobby. You seem to have a massive sort of persecution complex where you're taking the existence of Primaris Marines *very* personally. It's only game, why you heff to be mad?

What motivation do Ork, Eldar, and Guard players have to stick around? Kitbashing or love of lore (which has also been swallowed up by the Primaris malignancy) only goes so far with a lack of GW support, especially with model-driven rules effectiveness.


Orks just had a pretty big model refresh over the past couple years, including a number of new units, and a gorgeous resculpt of Makari and his ork-servant Ghazkull.

Eldar just got a plastic resculpt of a phoenix lord and aspect warriors - showing that GW is clearly still working on them. Beyond that their terrain kit and resculpted jetbikes are still fairly new. Likewise Dark Eldar are still a fairly new model range, and they just got plastic resculpts of a character and an elite unit. The entire Harlequin model range is likewise still fairly new. Likewise the Ynnari Triumvirate are all of what, 3 years old?

IG have been getting tons of new character support through Blackstone Fortress and character series minis, and the Militarum Tempestus mini range is still fairly new as well.

Primaris are essentially a new army within an army, they're getting support because they need to get up to speed, in the same way that Genestealer Cults, Custodes, and AdMech have also received several larger waves of releases over the last 2 years.

Um ... they aren't. Not by a long shot. This ignores the literal years long cycle Primaris have already had leading up to this. To be anywhere near on-par, we would have to get Necrons released along side nearly every other release for the next two years. Saying that, in the month of October, Necrons will get a huge release that matches what Primaris are also received in the previous month or so is one thing. Suggesting that what 'Crons are getting in October is "just as big an update" of a model line that's seen almost constant releases since the beginning of 8th really isn't very accurate imo.


Primaris are a new army, even if they exist within the same Codex as Firstborn, the rules of the game don't really allow you to play them together effectively. Comparing a new army, to an army thats 5+ editions old (and which already has one of the newest model ranges in the game) is comparing an apple to an orange. The upcoming Necron wave is truly astonishingly massive, as if the Indomitus contents weren't already dramatic enough, the number of "independent" releases basically triples that count and is truly dramatic. You're very grossly understating the situation.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in us
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Removed. See rule #1.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/14 23:06:43


 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus




Primaris are a new army, even if they exist within the same Codex as Firstborn, the rules of the game don't really allow you to play them together effectively. Comparing a new army, to an army thats 5+ editions old (and which already has one of the newest model ranges in the game) is comparing an apple to an orange. The upcoming Necron wave is truly astonishingly massive, as if the Indomitus contents weren't already dramatic enough, the number of "independent" releases basically triples that count and is truly dramatic. You're very grossly understating the situation.


Except that, traditionally, when a new army (a truly new army - one that's never been seen before) has been released - it lasts a month or two and everything is out. When Dark Eldar were released in 3rd, did we see 2 or 3 straight years of multiple Dark Eldar releases? When Necrons were released at the tail of 2nd, was it a constant release schedule deep into 4th edition? What about 'nids? No. How about if we look at the Tau release in 3rd. Surely, as they were at the time, the most unique army, then their release schedule lasted years right? Nope. None of this happened. Each of these armies was released in a span of a few months (sometimes less) and then left alone in some cases for a decade. Necrons were updated in 3rd in a major way and not touched again until 5th. Dark Eldar were released over a few month period and then not touched until 5th. Nids have seen sporadic updates but nothing constant.

Primaris, who really AREN'T a "new army" were introduced in 8th and have had a pretty steady trail of releases that is unprecedented for any other army. Even if I were to agree w/you that they are a truly "new" army, show me any other army that was brand new and saw this many releases, this constantly over the course of this many months/years. You simply can't. While what the Necrons are getting is big, calling it "astonishingly massive" is a bit silly in the face of the 18 months of Primaris we've seen. It's big, and hopefully the rules turn out better than they currently appear to be (because they're pretty terrible over-all for new units), but let's not pretend like it's on par with an army that's seen constant new stuff since the beginning of 8th. Let's add to that the fact that Primaris were ALSO in Indomitus, and that Marines got TWO codexes in 8th and will be first out the gate in 9th while other books like DG haven't seen love in over three years. lol These are all facts. I'm not sure why people are fighting so hard to deliberately not see it ...

Like I said before, you're right. It's totally even. As long as you close your eyes to anything prior to NOW in terms of the releases. We've literally never seen an army get this much attention for this long and it wears thin. Especially for people like Dark Eldar players who have only LOST units since 5th ed ... but yes, let's definitely give GW a pass because, in the month of October, and completely ignoring the last 2 to 3 years, Necrons will have a release as big as Primaris (again, provided you're ONLY comparing what came out in October - which is really disingenuous).

Again, my hope is they get off the Primaris train after October and start paying attention to some of these other armies, and we can all stop talking about it, but it is funny to see the amount of White Knighting happening. I feel bad for Marine players. I shelved my marine army a year ago because it was already silly back then and it's not like that's gotten better. It's better for everyone if we acknowledge it's gotten a bit much and just hope GW pays a lot more attention to the more neglected factions now.

EDIT:

Missed this:

new Necron content is the largest single xenos release the game has ever seen


It's not. Where did you get that from?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/14 22:24:01


Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

Love how an opposing opinion is rubbished as “white knighting” in an attempt to discredit. Not particularly arguing in good faith, there, just throwing something in to have a dig, and weirdly implying being salty is correct/cool when it’s just one option. Always find it weird to see posted.

Tbh I’m enjoying the Primaris stuff - it’s not all for me but they get our group half excited/half riled up and it keeps it interesting. None of us have the disposable income to rush out and buy 3x the new hotness so it’s not like our White Scars player will suddenly have three new Speeders or our Fists guy will have 15 Heavy Intercessors. And not everyone likes all the new kits. There’ll be a small ripple of effect but not top table silliness. Sometimes in the land of “overthinking stuff on the internet” practicalities like life and finances are forgotten.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




You can't deny that the support for Primaris outstrips that for all other armies by a significant magnitude.
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus




Love how an opposing opinion is rubbished as “white knighting” in an attempt to discredit. Not particularly arguing in good faith, there, just throwing something in to have a dig, and weirdly implying being salty is correct/cool when it’s just one option. Always find it weird to see posted.


It's not so much that it's an opposing opinion that makes it white knighting. It's when someone literally distorts the actual fact that make it so. There's a lot of mental gymnastics happening in chaosx0mega's post. We've all seen the release numbers. Over the last few years Primaris have severely outpaced every other faction with multiple factions going years with nothing at all, but posts like his seem to want to fall back on pointing to a single release someone got a while back or on exaggerations like "the biggest xenos release we've ever seen" to imply that, somehow, one army getting releases every few weeks for years while some armies literally go years with nothing is ok.

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Let's not call it an exaggeration, let's call it a lie. Because it's either that or blistering ignorance.
   
 
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