Interesting changes for marines

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**Daedalus81**

https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goonhammer-review-codex-space-marines-9th-edition/

Just picking out interesting things from the article. What stood out to you? (Yes, I know Eradicators goan be nutz)

The Primaris Hover Tanks all lost the FLY keyword and their ability to reduce enemy charge distance has been moved to the Grav Pulse stratagem.

Almost anything that isn’t a vehicle, a character, or a Centurion is CORE. Dreadnoughts and bikes are, ATVs are not. The big losers here are non-Dreadnought vehicles, which are completely absent from CORE.

The Infiltrator Helix Adept now no longer heals but instead sets the damage of the first failed save to 0.

I thought the ATV was a Vehicle was it not? Or both? Seems like a prime candidate for an FAQ since people were bewildered about it being a vehicle.

Apothecaries can now only natively heal models which haven’t died yet (this is more useful now that all Marines have 2 wounds); the “bring an INFANTRY/BIKER model back to life” trick is now a 1CP stratagem (or free for Chief Apothecaries with their new warlord trait), but it also brings the model back at full wounds… and yes it works on Invader ATVs. All 8 wounds of an ATV. Have fun with that.

he Judiciar gets some huge changes. His Tempermortis ability is now only 3”, but a wording change now means that it works how many people online thought it did – the enemy unit he picks is not eligible to fight this phase until after all eligible units your side have done so.

Duty Eternal is in the datasheet and is a flat -1 to all damage (to a minimum of 1). Dread explosions also got toned down, with regular Dreads now just 1 mortal wound instead of d3, and the Redemptor (and Invictor) going down from d6 to d3 mortal wounds.

Eliminators ignore LoS (look out sir) but don’t ignore LoS (line of sight) any more. Also if the sarge has a carbine they get to move after shooting if they’re not in Engagement Range, so that’s neat. However, they can’t fall back on overwatch any more, and they no longer get the +1 to hit/wound for giving up the Sergeant’s shooting. Mortis rounds go to a flat 2 damage instead of d3, as is the pattern.

YES!

Vindicator siege shields exist again after having an edition off, and if you take one now they get +1 to saves against ranged weapons.

Hammerfall Bunker can't deepstrike, lol.

Grav-cannons – now 30” range and flat 2 damage.

I know i'll shoot anti-tank at them, but I mean come on...

Unyielding in the Face of the Foe is new here, a 1 CP stratagem that gives a Mk. X Gravis unit +1 to its saves against incoming attacks with a damage characteristic of 1.

**Voss**

Also for grav-cannon units,
the Gravitic Amplification (rerolls) strat is gone.

Scouts getting booted to Elite (and losing ObSec) is probably a big deal for list building.

**BrianDavion**

Voss wrote:
Also for grav-cannon units,
the Gravitic Amplification (rerolls) strat is gone.

Scouts getting booted to Elite (and losing ObSec) is probably a big deal for list building.

scouts needed to be moved from troops.

**Daedalus81**

BrianDavion wrote:
Voss wrote:
Also for grav-cannon units,
the Gravitic Amplification (rerolls) strat is gone.

Scouts getting booted to Elite (and losing ObSec) is probably a big deal for list building.

scouts needed to be moved from troops.

Yea, but it seems like they got nothing for the trouble.

**Nevelon**

If they were going to be shifted out of troops, I’d rather they went to FA. While they might not be jumping around or zooming up the field on bikes, they have the deployment options. Classically they could also move through cover IIRC.

Regardless, what thy bring is more movement/location based, which is the realm of FA IMHO.

Lots of interesting things seem to be going on with this book. Will be nice to sit down and digest it once it releases.

**Sgt_Smudge**

BrianDavion wrote:
Voss wrote:
Also for grav-cannon units,
the Gravitic Amplification (rerolls) strat is gone.

Scouts getting booted to Elite (and losing ObSec) is probably a big deal for list building.

scouts needed to be moved from troops.

Agreed. I'd have put them in Fast Attack, instead of Elites, but that's just me.

**Aaranis**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Dread explosions also got toned down, with regular Dreads now just 1 mortal wound instead of d3, and the Redemptor (and Invictor) going down from d6 to d3 mortal wounds.

As someone who lost 22 Skitarii Vanguards today to one Invictor exploding, I approve of this change

**Voss**

Between the two books, I think Elite has lost its meaning somewhat.
Instead of actual elites, its becoming more the 'catch-all' category. Not troops, but not fast or big guns either.

Both scouts and Spyders ended up there, and praetorians scooted off to fast attack.

There's definitely quite a bit of 'the army should look/feel the way we say it should' to these changes.

**Sgt_Smudge**

Voss wrote:
Between the two books, I think Elite has lost its meaning somewhat.
Instead of actual elites, its becoming more the 'catch-all' category. Not troops, but not fast or big guns either.

Both scouts and Spyders ended up there, and praetorians scooted off to fast attack.

Yeah, there's definitely a weird bit of "what to do with units that aren't fast, aren't heavy, but aren't elite that aren't the core of your army". I think the 30k solution (Troops that just don't take up compulsory slots) was pretty good for this. I mean, where would you even put something like a Tactical Support Squad without that?

There's definitely quite a bit of 'the army should look/feel the way we say it should' to these changes.

I don't really have an issue with that.
Arguably, what GW want is for tournament lists to be reflective of what "fluffy" lists should look like, and I'm all for that.

If the "good" Space Marine army is an army featuring as few power armoured Space Marines as possible, then that's an issue.

**tneva82**

You could of course just make things balanced rather than　introduce artifcial restrictions or even worse point hikes for sake of it

**LunarSol**

Elites are now better categorized as “specialists”.

**Daedalus81**

I really like the new orbital bombardment. "Get off this objective or die".

**Platuan4th**

Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I mean, where would you even put something like a Tactical Support Squad without that?

Heavy like Hellblasters and Havocs when they had Specials or Elites like Chosen or Dark Angels Vets that can take a large number of specials. The idea of Tactical Support style squads still exists in 40K in several armies and they're never Troops choices. Heavy Support and Elites as sections have always been closer to meaning "Fire Support" and "Specialists" than their usual English meanings.

**McMagnus Mindbullets**

Daedalus81 wrote:
I really like the new orbital bombardment. "Get off this objective or die".

So do I. Far better than what it was, will force hard decisions in terms of VP vs models lost.

Loving that you can just whack it down anywhere on the board. Oh that objective with 6 units on it? yes, get off please.

**H.B.M.C.**

I like how Centurions were singled out.

Do their arms ever get tired swinging that pendulum?

**stratigo**

Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Voss wrote:
Between the two books, I think Elite has lost its meaning somewhat.
Instead of actual elites, its becoming more the 'catch-all' category. Not troops, but not fast or big guns either.

Both scouts and Spyders ended up there, and praetorians scooted off to fast attack.
Yeah, there's definitely a weird bit of "what to do with units that aren't fast, aren't heavy, but aren't elite that aren't the core of your army". I think the 30k solution (Troops that just don't take up compulsory slots) was pretty good for this. I mean, where would you even put something like a Tactical Support Squad without that?

There's definitely quite a bit of 'the army should look/feel the way we say it should' to these changes.
I don't really have an issue with that.
Arguably, what GW want is for tournament lists to be reflective of what "fluffy" lists should look like, and I'm all for that.

If the "good" Space Marine army is an army featuring as few power armoured Space Marines as possible, then that's an issue.

Without Primaris DPs and the death of vehicles, Meta marine forces all look like Imperial fists setting up a grand last stand these days. There's only a handful of circumstances where a marine force should be operating not mechanized, but they went and nerfed the primaris mechanized options so that the best way to play marines is all on foot.

**McMagnus Mindbullets**

stratigo wrote:
Meta marine forces all look like Imperial fists setting up a grand last stand these days.

White scars say hello

**stratigo**

McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
stratigo wrote:
Meta marine forces all look like Imperial fists setting up a grand last stand these days.

White scars say hello

Even white scars foot slog to be meta.

**bullyboy**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I like how Centurions were singled out.

Do their arms ever get tired swinging that pendulum?

well of course they were getting a nerf.....they just became available for Dark Angels.

**Aaranis**

Daedalus81 wrote:
I really like the new orbital bombardment. "Get off this objective or die".

What is Orbital Bombardment now ?

**Insectum7**

Any other changes to Grav Cannons other than the range boost and flat 2D? Here's a fun question, are they 2D against everything?

**Karol**

Insectum7 wrote:
Any other changes to Grav Cannons other than the range boost and flat 2D? Here's a fun question, are they 2D against everything?

30" range.

**Voss**

Insectum7 wrote:
Any other changes to Grav Cannons other than the range boost and flat 2D? Here's a fun question, are they 2D against everything?

Not directly to the weapon profile, but the Gravitic Amplification strat (rerolls) went *poof* and vanished from reality.

**Kanluwen**

Aaranis wrote:
Daedalus81 wrote:
I really like the new orbital bombardment. "Get off this objective or die".

What is Orbital Bombardment now ?

Pulling the quote from the article:

Orbital Bombardment also has a major overhaul. It’s used once per game in the Command phase if your warlord is on the battlefield – pick a point on the table and in your next Command phase roll a D6; on a 2-5 anything within 6” of that point takes D3 mortal wounds and on a 6 they take D6. Units within 3” of the marker are +1 to the roll – and yes, that means they can be auto-hit – while CHARACTER models are -1. Do take care to note that it hits units in this range, not enemy units; the Battle Barge bombarding you from the stratosphere is not in fact able to avoid hitting your own guys if they stand on the point. That’s a very cool adjustment that both works thematically while also making the stratagem as much about area denial as doing damage – you can pick a key objective that you aren’t going to be able to contest, and dare your opponent to come and take it at the risk of their unit being obliterated from space.

That's extremely exciting to me. Also, it can hurt your own units.

**Daedalus81**

Ooh..missed this. Marines be runnin' now!

ATSKNF (And They Shall Know No Fear) lets a unit ignore Combat Attrition modifiers, a change from the prior edition’s rule that had Marines re-roll Morale checks.

**Denegaar**

ATV being a bike is a clear mistake. It has to be.

**stratigo**

the ATV is a primaris attack bike. It'll stay a bike I am betting.

**Denegaar**

I don't know how expensive an Attack Bike is, but it feels pretty stupid for the Apothecary to resurrect a full 85pt model for 1CP.

Maybe if they come back with D3 wounds remaining...

I'm making a mirror with my army, and it is almost like ressurrecting a full Talos for 1CP. It doesn't seem fair for your opponent.

**stratigo**

here's a hot take. The apothecary shouldn't res bikes.

**Doohicky**

Kanluwen wrote:
Aaranis wrote:
Daedalus81 wrote:
I really like the new orbital bombardment. "Get off this objective or die".

What is Orbital Bombardment now ?

Pulling the quote from the article:

Orbital Bombardment also has a major overhaul. It’s used once per game in the Command phase if your warlord is on the battlefield – pick a point on the table and in your next Command phase roll a D6; on a 2-5 anything within 6” of that point takes D3 mortal wounds and on a 6 they take D6. Units within 3” of the marker are +1 to the roll – and yes, that means they can be auto-hit – while CHARACTER models are -1. Do take care to note that it hits units in this range, not enemy units; the Battle Barge bombarding you from the stratosphere is not in fact able to avoid hitting your own guys if they stand on the point. That’s a very cool adjustment that both works thematically while also making the stratagem as much about area denial as doing damage – you can pick a key objective that you aren’t going to be able to contest, and dare your opponent to come and take it at the risk of their unit being obliterated from space.

That's extremely exciting to me. Also, it can hurt your own units.

That's going to be nasty against Deathguard as they will struggle to get out of a blast radius. Of course on the flip side they also have DR to mitigate some of the damage. So swings and roundabouts I suppose.
Against fast armies it's going to be pretty hard to do anything except create a no go area though, but I suppose being able to do that is good in and of itself