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Well, I guess it's time to get back into GW wargaming...

So, since this is the army I'll be getting into, the question I have is this;

I'm getting 3 Mega Gargants and 6 Mancrushers, Battletome and Warscrolls. Besides those, what other books do I need to play Warhammer Fantasy?

It's been a long time

General's Handbook 2020, the free AoS app (which is really good and has easy access to the core rules in it).

Or get the Game Book which has all the games rules and is a more sensible size for actual gaming compared to the Big Rule Book which is a fantastic book but more for art and lore than practical gaming.

You will still want the 2020 Generals Handbook alongside as some elements - like Realm Rules - have changed

Thanks guys!

Why get the gamer's book anymore? It is outdated; the scenarios have been replaced, the realmscape rules & spells are now narrative-only. I don't reccomend it to new players unless they are specifically getting into a community which runs narrative and/or house rules that stuff into matched play.

The only part that's changed is the realmscape rules. All the games core rules are exactly the same plus, if I recall right, its had the erratas edited in as well to those. So core rules wise its up to date and far easier to carry around than the Big Rule Book.

Sure if they are going to use the app then its a non-issue they use the app; but for those who prefer a physical book its far better than the BRB.

It is a display of GW's somewhat haphazard approach to rules to release a useful resource and then make a portion of it invalid with another publication - another sign perhaps of different teams working on different things or GW not wanting to tip their hand to future changes etc... For whatever reason they changed the realm rules side of things. But in the end many of those were not even used universally in every game location and sometimes people used bits of them not the full set.

 Overread wrote:
So we are almost arguing for a no-restrictions rules set - so AoS Launch Edition?




Honestly one or two exceptions to the points restriction is fine. It allows for the possibility of units of greater power being added as allies, but when they are one model in count. It's nowhere near the same as taking a Daughters of Khaine army where you've only got a Slaughter Queen and 30 Witch Aelves for min-requirements and then the entire rest is Khadorans.

No. Just because I'm against two restrictions doesn't mean I'm not for others.
For ex;
Pts limits on games.
1+ leaders, 2+ battle lines, 0- x whatever
I'm even good with allies only being limited to 1 in every 4 units.

 Overread wrote:
The only part that's changed is the realmscape rules. All the games core rules are exactly the same plus, if I recall right, its had the erratas edited in as well to those. So core rules wise its up to date and far easier to carry around than the Big Rule Book.

Sure if they are going to use the app then its a non-issue they use the app; but for those who prefer a physical book its far better than the BRB.

Uh, no one suggested the base rulebook...

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Overread wrote:
The only part that's changed is the realmscape rules. All the games core rules are exactly the same plus, if I recall right, its had the erratas edited in as well to those. So core rules wise its up to date and far easier to carry around than the Big Rule Book.

Sure if they are going to use the app then its a non-issue they use the app; but for those who prefer a physical book its far better than the BRB.

Uh, no one suggested the base rulebook...

Aye but if you want the full rules in physical form then its either the game book or the big rule book and of the two the game book is cheaper, smaller, lighter and more practical to use.

Or print the PDF for free rather than buying the gamer's book only to use 12 pages of it.

Or snag one of the starter set booklets off ebay for a few bucks.

Wait, people are actually buying those booklets?

Dangit. I've been giving them away!

Where you get enough to give them? You don't get gaming book for free anywhere at least legally.

They come in the big boxes. If you do any split-boxing, amusingly enough, people don't seem to want them.

The forge word giant has ben added to this faction as a mega gargant, so 1 more model for diveristy. (nothing special about its rules other then some more freedom in movment due to its tall and slinky size)

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
The forge word giant has ben added to this faction as a mega gargant, so 1 more model for diveristy. (nothing special about its rules other then some more freedom in movment due to its tall and slinky size)

The Bonecrusher Gargant?

I'm not a fan. Ugly model in context to the mancrushers and mega gargants. As for aesthetics, I want my table top force to have the same overall harmonious look.

When was it made? It looks like a relic of a bygone era.

 BuFFo wrote:

When was it made? It looks like a relic of a bygone era.

Probably in the top 5 of oldest things still in FW production.

And yeah, was never a fan either.

It's old, but its nice to see it getting some attention! I'm always sad things like the Wolf Rats and Warpfire dragon didn't get a time to shine (and now are gone for good).

 Overread wrote:
It's old, but its nice to see it getting some attention! I'm always sad things like the Wolf Rats and Warpfire dragon didn't get a time to shine (and now are gone for good).

Good point. With so many models going way of the dodo without any so much as a warning ( FW chaos dwarves going bye bye slowly over the years, for example ) breathing some life into the Bonecrusher is a positive.

It isn't my cup of tea aesthetic-wise, but if I had a collection of older models, I'd probably make a mega gargant army out of those much more cheaper than with the newest mega gargants.

 BuFFo wrote:

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
The forge word giant has ben added to this faction as a mega gargant, so 1 more model for diveristy. (nothing special about its rules other then some more freedom in movment due to its tall and slinky size)

The Bonecrusher Gargant?

I'm not a fan. Ugly model in context to the mancrushers and mega gargants. As for aesthetics, I want my table top force to have the same overall harmonious look.

When was it made? It looks like a relic of a bygone era.

Bonegrinder Gargant.

Seems they renamed him since you all talk about Bonecrusher.
And yea, visualy very different from the new megas, slinky, lacking some meat on the bone. Him alone whit 2 or 3 GW megas i would imagine look wierd, but if you proxi some other giant models aswell then it could not look bad i think.

warscroll:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/aos_warscrolls/Downloads-AoS/aos-warscroll-bonegrinder-gargant.pdf

Oh, the Bonegrinder has his own rules for the current SoB army? Really? Wow...

Looks like I might have to get a fourth Mega Gargant to use as a Bonegrinder!

Well, actually... after reading his warscroll... No thanks... FW continues the decades long tradition or making high cost models with under powered rules.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Are we really going to suggest that a TAC should be able to handle this army?

They shouldn't. It's a skew list, for all intents and purposes.

Not really? It's just low model count. They don't have particularly strong defensive stats other than a high wound pool and their offense is on the low side for a model their cost. A skew list was a couple dozen tzeentch flamers, not this.

 BuFFo wrote:
Oh, the Bonegrinder has his own rules for the current SoB army? Really? Wow...

Looks like I might have to get a fourth Mega Gargant to use as a Bonegrinder!

Well, actually... after reading his warscroll... No thanks... FW continues the decades long tradition or making high cost models with under powered rules.

Funny. Others complain FW always make broken stuff.

Anyway GW took control of FW model rules so...Direct complain to GW studio. They are the ones who wrote it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
They come in the big boxes. If you do any split-boxing, amusingly enough, people don't seem to want them.

Are you sure you aren't mixing with core rules with gaming book? Gaming book is

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-FI/Age-Of-Sigmar-Gaming-Book-EN-2019

And 88 pages is bit more than what I would classify as booklet.

I'm talking about the booklets. I referred to booklets initially and Ninth did as well.

Looncurse, Carrion Empire, Lumineth box, etc all have come with the little core booklet.

Most definitely confirmation bias, but it seems like these were a hit. My media feeds are filled with fully painted, WIP, conversions and the obligatory ‘Look what just showed up in the post” box photos.

I myself purchased the tome (as I do for all battletomes) and 1 Mega-gargant. Gonna do a Kraken-Eater for my Order armies and see where it goes from there.

They are expensive but the trick of making them ally into any army is going to give them a vast appeal; more so than most new armies. Because their target market is "anyone" who wants a giant model.

So yep I figure they'll do alright. The army itself might not end up the most popular, but I figure it could in time esp for players who play armies from more than one GA and thus can easily end up with two or three ally giants

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm talking about the booklets. I referred to booklets initially and Ninth did as well.

Looncurse, Carrion Empire, Lumineth box, etc all have come with the little core booklet.

Or get the Game Book which has all the games rules and is a more sensible size for actual gaming compared to the Big Rule Book which is a fantastic book but more for art and lore than practical gaming.

You will still want the 2020 Generals Handbook alongside as some elements - like Realm Rules - have changed

By overread.

Couple posts below by ninth:

Why get the gamer's book anymore? It is outdated; the scenarios have been replaced, the realmscape rules & spells are now narrative-only. I don't reccomend it to new players unless they are specifically getting into a community which runs narrative and/or house rules that stuff into matched play.

I have been talking about gaming book in response to these.

 Overread wrote:
They are expensive but the trick of making them ally into any army is going to give them a vast appeal; more so than most new armies. Because their target market is "anyone" who wants a giant model.

So yep I figure they'll do alright. The army itself might not end up the most popular, but I figure it could in time esp for players who play armies from more than one GA and thus can easily end up with two or three ally giants

Exactly my toughts aswell, the popularity and reason for sales atleast in the first 6 months will be primarely from the Ally aspect.
Pure SoB armies with more then 2 megas wont be viable as you will loose the objective game, atleast not until they do some future adjustments to points or warscroll stats.

Been able to read through and digest the new battletome, as well as play a game against the Sons. First off, the fluff is fantastic. I really enjoyed reading it, it's loaded with character, has just the right amount of humor, and is all-around awesome.

In terms of gameplay the situation is a bit disappointing. One would expect a gargant army to play like gargants; stomping forward, smashing things to bits. Unfortunately the viable option is to play the objective game as this is where the army really shines. Going with a taker tribe (which is what people will be doing) each kraken-eater is worth 30 models and each mancrusher is worth 15, allowing them to readily seize objectives. This is straightforward because while a conventional unit wanting to put a 30-count on an objective needs all 30 models within range all the gargant has to do is toe in the front millimeter of his base to get his full value. Stuff like retreating over enemies (mega gargants can move over models with 10w or less) to grab objectives is the kind of tactic to win games with Sons. That and others along the same line of thinking give the army viability on the battlefield but it just doesn't fit the theme well at all. Not to mention leaving stomper & crusher tribes out to dry.

This is a result from what I feel is the biggest flaw of the 'tome; mega gargants do not deal much damage compared to their point cost. Their profile is scary up front but considering they cost nearly 500 points it is unimpressive. Ditto for their defenses; 35 wounds seems like a lot, but there are plenty of units which have been running around since AoS' launch that are as tough or tougher. This is before debuffs come into play, and with no access to unbinds beyond one artifact in the taker tribe Sons have next to no ability to stop penalties coming in. This all pushes them towards objective-centered play, which they are indeed good at but it would be nice to see more diversity in how to run the army. More specifically it would be nice to have the models on the board match up better with the awe-inspiring destruction they heap upon foes in the fluff.

Seriously though, I have to hand it to whoever wrote the lore. It is hard to read it and not want to go out and buy a mega gargant or two, price be dammed.

The Sons of Behemat audio book was fun too, if a bit short.

My biggest complaint with the book is the allies matrix for them. A big fat “none”. I think they would have benefitted greatly from at least one ally.

And yeah Ninth, its crazy that they are more of a “finesse” army than a straight up smashface army.

Funny how people said they lose due to objectives and now ninth say objectives is where they shine. or is the army so bad that even though they shine in objectives they lose on that too?