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Seeing as the bunch of lunatics in Westminster are determined to crash us out without any kind of deal, what does it mean for UK wargamers? Personally I've noticed price increases on many things across Ebay and Amazon, as well as items such as minis and paint from Europe, mainly I suspect to try recoup some cash from the covid lockdowns.
Now we've got another 'iceberg' on the horizon.
Are we going to get double tapped when it comes to buying from Europe and elsewhere? I just have this horrible feeling that any import costs will be steep and will be tagged onto any purchase we make, so that it becomes financially ridiculous.
Thoughts?

I tend to agree. Gw will probably do ok regardless, bit for buying from abroad I expect a hike. Brexit has already tanked the exchange rate with the dollar, and pp prices have been crazy for a while.

But hey, blue passports, right?

Right now, no-one seems to know how it'll play out.

William Shatner (of all people) recently made headlines by threatening to stop shipping to the UK due to the 'red tape' (Sky News).

Being in Ireland I'm curious. I don't buy anything from GW anymore really but most Irish people buy stuff from UK sites to the point where there are very, very few dedicated Irish TTG site that aren't just an after thought of a physical shop and often, buying from the UK is still cheaper even after shipping is added.

beast_gts wrote:
Right now, no-one seems to know how it'll play out.

William Shatner (of all people) recently made headlines by threatening to stop shipping to the UK due to the 'red tape' (Sky News).

But the ladies of negotiable affection from the next town over said red tape was Bill's favourite...

I suspect prices will get bumped, how much of it is actually because of actual reasons rather than just cos and or Nurgle remains to be seen

The opening salvo will be £50 for Banshees.

Slipstream wrote:
Seeing as the bunch of lunatics in Westminster are determined to crash us out without any kind of deal, what does it mean for UK wargamers? Personally I've noticed price increases on many things across Ebay and Amazon, as well as items such as minis and paint from Europe, mainly I suspect to try recoup some cash from the covid lockdowns.
Now we've got another 'iceberg' on the horizon.
Are we going to get double tapped when it comes to buying from Europe and elsewhere? I just have this horrible feeling that any import costs will be steep and will be tagged onto any purchase we make, so that it becomes financially ridiculous.
Thoughts?

UK GW players aren't all that affected unless GW decides to increase prices due to supply expenses. Books printed from china not affected as they were out of EU anyway. For GW games non-UK are most hit as GW will prohibit UK stores selling outside UK to EU countries like they have already banned selling outside EU so far. This forces non-UK to buy from local with GW's inflated exchange rates(which just goes even crazier). (there's reason I have been buying as much stuff as I can now this year)

Vallejo is going to get pricier for UK I think. That was spanish company? But anyway every miniature product from EU will go up. Stores will naturally pass tarif prices to customers rather than out of their own picket. Also more delays.


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 Sim-Life wrote:
Being in Ireland I'm curious. I don't buy anything from GW anymore really but most Irish people buy stuff from UK sites to the point where there are very, very few dedicated Irish TTG site that aren't just an after thought of a physical shop and often, buying from the UK is still cheaper even after shipping is added.

Well that won't be possible. Only reason that has kept GW from banning that(like they did outside EU) was laws. When that law isn't worry anymore no reason GW won't expand it. No exchange rate shopping anymore.

Small UK companies that sell direct or on Kickstarter will definitely struggle without the EU market.

 Sim-Life wrote:
Being in Ireland I'm curious. I don't buy anything from GW anymore really but most Irish people buy stuff from UK sites to the point where there are very, very few dedicated Irish TTG site that aren't just an after thought of a physical shop and often, buying from the UK is still cheaper even after shipping is added.

I'm fully expecting to see huge increases in postage and probably see import duties, in which case I'll probably stop buying from most companies and just do one huge order from Goblin Gaming once a year.

I don't know about other stores around Ireland, as most are too far out for me to travel to just for picking up hobby products, but the store in Cork only sells a small selection of GW products at the exact same price as they are from GW , so it's hard to see a reason to buy from there when I only play at home and can order online and have access to a huge selection of products, most with discount. Even the GW store is 2 mins walk away from the other store.

SamusDrake wrote:
The opening salvo will be £50 for Banshees.

Now you know how aussies and other player feel in other countries.

I was literally about to post something about this in N&R (as in some ways think it has to act as a warning for people to buy stuff now!)

Have recently been stung by a pretty nasty customs charge for some video games stuff ordered from Japan (came to about 35% of the total cost) and thinking that this is going to affect hobby purchases for people purchasing and then sending items either from or to the UK from the rest of Europe (I know there is a possibility this won't happen, but is looking like the most likely outcome at this point.)
I buy a lot from smaller companies in Spain in particular (there are some great smaller companies making Fantasy Football teams for Blood Bowl for instance) so assume this is going to effectively make that very expensive to do.

I think even for people who only order from the larger companies that operate from the UK (GW, Warlord etc.) who deal through distributor networks to stores - those lorries carrying the new Space Marine codex release to France, Germany etc. are going to be delayed in lorry parks outside Kent and there are bound to be other implications for the distributor network.
I should also think the large retailers in the UK, who have been probably been doing well out of the weak £ for orders from the EU, are surely going to be impacted.

So in my view I think buy stuff before Jan 2021 if you are within the scenario above - especially from smaller companies.

Not Online!!! wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
The opening salvo will be £50 for Banshees.

Now you know how aussies and other player feel in other countries.

Well, no, because then our Australian friends would have it even harder! Probably be paying something like £80!

Seriously, if I were living in such places then I simply wouldn't bother with Games Workshop at all. Contrary to popular belief, there is always a limit.

SamusDrake wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
The opening salvo will be £50 for Banshees.

Now you know how aussies and other player feel in other countries.

Well, no, because then our Australian friends would have it even harder! Probably be paying something like £80!

Seriously, if I were living in such places then I simply wouldn't bother with Games Workshop at all. Contrary to popular belief, there is always a limit.

depends though if the local TG playerbase is willing to play something else...
Also GW has 40k as an IP ... so that is also a factor, atleast for me, but then again i am not above plasticard greenstuff and 3rd parties aswell as historicals..

I think those of us in the uk will end up buying far less direct from EU suppliers as not only will be get taxed, if we're importing outselves we'll get hit by the £8 collection fee from the royal mail (or more if it comes via courier)

so hopefully the likes of Element, Wayland Games etc will pick up a lot more smaller lines so we 'only' have to pay the tax and their markup

otherwise it's the occasional larger order (KS will profit here) where the collection fee is far less in proportion to the rest of the spend

For the larger companies like Vallejo hopefully the UK market is large enough for them to have a UK office and import stuff themselves

(and if your in the EU I fear I agree with the comments above, you'll probably loose access to the UK based GW resellers like Element etc)

Well unfortunately I see hard times coming to those excellent small UK companies i.e.

Troll Trader
Atlantis Miniatures
Anvil Industries
Zealot Games

and and and....

Who cares about the big ones they will find a way! They will be / could be hit very hard.
No one is going to make quick purchases from the EU if they have to pay Tax and higher postage.

Evil-D185 wrote:
Well unfortunately I see hard times coming to those excellent small UK companies

Hopefully they'll all find ways to survive. TT has just bought a dozen new laser cutters to meet demand for their MDF terrain, and Anvil are pushing the patreon / STL side of things, for examples.

Oh dear. This might actually be a lot worse than people have realised for people in the UK (rather than those in the EU) who are wanting to purchase items from outside the UK and bring them into the country.

Been reading some threads in amongst the plastic kit building forums, which is my other hobby, and there are a fair few people doing backflips there. It's probably not going to affect the big EU sellers who will VAT register, but the smaller and garage companies will be a different matter, with the prevailing consensus being that many will probably just stop selling to the UK.

This is one comment from the Britmodeller forum which seems to have reached some understanding.

This looks like bad news for U.K. modellers who buy from overseas:
tl;dr - The UK is eliminating the VAT exemption for shipments valued under £15 and they are making overseas vendors responsible for collecting VAT on shipments to the U.K. This will likely mean most overseas vendors will no longer ship to the U.K. to avoid the £1000 cost of submitting the forms to register with HMRC and the hassle of submitting VAT payments to the UK. I’d guess on-line marketplaces (OMPs) like Amazon and eBay will be unaffected but they will now collect VAT on purchases from outside the UK. Individual retailers (e.g. HLJ, Sprue Brothers, Eduard, etc) will now have to register with HMRC and collect VAT on packages sent to the UK).

Outline of the changes
For imports of goods from outside the UK in consignments not exceeding £135 in value (which aligns with the threshold for customs duty liability), we will be moving the point at which VAT is collected from the point of importation to the point of sale. This will mean that UK supply VAT, rather than import VAT, will be due on these consignments.
The new arrangements will also involve the abolition of Low Value Consignment Relief, which relieves import VAT on consignments of goods valued at £15 or less.
Online marketplaces (OMPs), where they are involved in facilitating the sale, will be responsible for collecting and accounting for the VAT.
For goods sent from overseas and sold directly to UK consumers without OMP involvement, the overseas seller will be required to register and account for the VAT to HMRC.
Business to business sales not exceeding £135 in value will also be subject to the new rules. However, where the business customer is VAT registered in the UK and provides its valid VAT registration number to the seller, the VAT will be accounted for by the customer by means of a reverse charge.”

One person (and I don't know whether this is true or not) mentioned that they thought UK HMRC are basically trying to put the onus on sellers to carry out their VAT paperwork, as the UK gov simply won't have the staff to be able to process all of the additional customs paperwork. This, very unwieldy option, is the alternative to import trade of goods becoming completely logjammed.

That echos what The Shat said - £1000 to register plus someone to do the paperwork.

That does fit the trend. Can uk modelers get around this with reshipping services?

In theory no, as the re-shipper would have to do the VAt collection


Automatically Appended Next Post:
on the other hand i wonder if online shop solution companies might be able to build collection into their software?

Amazon already ship for other companies in the UK (Element Games have recently moved to them) so I could definitely see eBay and Amazon extending their delivery service to other companies so that they deal with the VAT issue for a small fee and then the shipment is sent via Amazon Logistics for Amazon or USPS for eBay.

I am in the process of trying to get Mantic to send me what I ordered from a big order from them to try to avoid this mess.

No idea at all how it will turn out, which is really pretty shocking. Must be terrifying for British businesses at the moment with COVID and the total lack of clarity about trading arrangements.

I hope there is a deal for the sake of the small businesses. Some wonderful UK manufacturers across all sizes, it really is the spiritual home of miniature wargaming in a lot of ways.

Even WITH the deal there still will be more paperwork and new IT they need to work with. None that are known yet.

There'll be some short term upheaval for sure, I suspect in the long run things will settle down, prices will rise, postage costs and duty will change as they always do. Getting things from further afield than Europe may become easier and cheaper. The main problem is nobody really knows.

I don't think there is any reason to believe it will be any better than it is currently for buying outside of the EU - i.e. crap, especially for smaller volumes. Even once things have settled down.

Charges for Royal Mail even having to process the item, and good luck getting hold of them via the phone or email as it's almost impossible to speak to a human being. Just anecdotally, I've been waiting over 10 days to get hold of an item that has been held up in customs now... Think even if some arrangements are put in place (and reading about it, a lot is going to depend on what happens in the US this time next week) I think we can kiss goodbye to the seamless situation you have now, where you don't really have to worry about sending to the EU beyond Hermes losing the parcel or accidentally sending it back to the sender.

An update of sorts for this.

Been reading about some plastic kit/modelling companies that have been trying to register with the UK/HMRC for sales in the new year and apparently are having difficulties, to the point where they are now sending messages to customers saying no sale to the UK in the new year.
Admittedly these are smaller/niche companies (and I haven't seen anything in the wargaming/miniature area yet) but the signs are worrying.

I think advice has to be: buying into or out of the UK, best to try and do it as soon as possible. Unlike the situation with the vaccine, it's unlikely the government is going to use the military to fly wargame miniature orders into or out of the country (as much as I think that would be a valid operation)

It is looking pretty bad, deal or no deal. I am quite annoyed because I ordered from Mantic months ago, but they messed up my order and then messed up the replacement, and I am not really having any luck getting the actual order off them so I am pretty sure it is going to come through after Brexit (if at all) and I am going to be hit with customs on it (annoying) and have to trek out to the customs house to pick it up (really annoying).

Very disappointed that they are so incompetent tbh.

I would be interested to know what GW's plans are.

But if I was in the UK I would be much more worried about things other than toy soldiers to be honest, it looks like the UK is very poorly prepared.

Funny I said nothing on the Wargames front, but I think after the news of the past day or two that might start to happen.

Update from Heresy Miniatures saying please try and order before January as customs handling fees will apply from then.

This is who it is going to really hurt - the smaller producers who have a significant market (either in or outside the UK) and for whom customers will just not now bother with the additional charges. And that's not including the smaller companies that will just stop selling to the UK because of either the cost or inconvenience.

 Da Boss wrote:
It is looking pretty bad, deal or no deal. I am quite annoyed because I ordered from Mantic months ago, but they messed up my order and then messed up the replacement, and I am not really having any luck getting the actual order off them so I am pretty sure it is going to come through after Brexit (if at all) and I am going to be hit with customs on it (annoying) and have to trek out to the customs house to pick it up (really annoying).

Very disappointed that they are so incompetent tbh.

I would be interested to know what GW's plans are.

But if I was in the UK I would be much more worried about things other than toy soldiers to be honest, it looks like the UK is very poorly prepared.

Don't get me started.. just search for your own GIF of a flaming steam train falling off a collapsed bridge and exploding, or something similar, it is easier than me typing what I think.

I would assume that GW and other big sellers are probably going to have a dedicated group working on it (most large companies are, because it will affect everything).

But things like stock shortages, distribution of goods will affect every business with an export department - GW included.

 Pacific wrote:
going to use the military to fly wargame miniature orders into or out of the country (as much as I think that would be a valid operation)

Since a lot of gamers are in the military, I'm sure we can reply on our troops to keep the country stocked.

Even more incentive for garage companies and consumers to switch to purely digital, 3d printable product.