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Hecaton wrote:


Nah, look at how things went with the Kellermorph. Other factions having fun, interesting options that work on the tabletop *makes Astartes players less happy.* They see it as a zero-sum game.

caree to show me the dozen posts a week from marine players that bitched whined and moaned about the Kellermorph? because I sure didn't see it.

BrianDavion wrote:

Hecaton wrote:


Nah, look at how things went with the Kellermorph. Other factions having fun, interesting options that work on the tabletop *makes Astartes players less happy.* They see it as a zero-sum game.

caree to show me the dozen posts a week from marine players that bitched whined and moaned about the Kellermorph? because I sure didn't see it.

Pretty sure that was the guard players fearing for their flimsy characters.

 BertBert wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Hecaton wrote:


Nah, look at how things went with the Kellermorph. Other factions having fun, interesting options that work on the tabletop *makes Astartes players less happy.* They see it as a zero-sum game.

caree to show me the dozen posts a week from marine players that bitched whined and moaned about the Kellermorph? because I sure didn't see it.

Pretty sure that was the guard players fearing for their flimsy characters.

Makes sense, guard are pretty reliant on their HQs and their HQs are flimsy to units like the keller morph, I know guard players where a little displeased with eliminators as well

 Irbis wrote:
But alas, SM have nothing anywhere near that broken, incidentally once again proving thread title wrong

Wait... more broken than the kellermorph?

I mean... that's not a short list, right? The kellermorph is... fine, in a vacuum, but SM has a bunch of stuff that outperforms it. And the kellermorph has the handicap of being GSC.

A SM player that is berating a GSC player for being too powerful is... hilarious.

"What can marines not do?" = be humble, apparently.

Niiru wrote:

 Irbis wrote:
But alas, SM have nothing anywhere near that broken, incidentally once again proving thread title wrong

Wait... more broken than the kellermorph?

I mean... that's not a short list, right? The kellermorph is... fine, in a vacuum, but SM has a bunch of stuff that outperforms it. And the kellermorph has the handicap of being GSC.

A SM player that is berating a GSC player for being too powerful is... hilarious.

"What can marines not do?" = be humble, apparently.

Why do his cobbled together pistols have D2 and why can he fire them as fast as an autocannon? The issue isn't that the Kellermorph is good it's that it makes no sense.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 Irbis wrote:
But alas, SM have nothing anywhere near that broken, incidentally once again proving thread title wrong

Wait... more broken than the kellermorph?

I mean... that's not a short list, right? The kellermorph is... fine, in a vacuum, but SM has a bunch of stuff that outperforms it. And the kellermorph has the handicap of being GSC.

A SM player that is berating a GSC player for being too powerful is... hilarious.

"What can marines not do?" = be humble, apparently.

Why do his cobbled together pistols have D2 and why can he fire them as fast as an autocannon? The issue isn't that the Kellermorph is good it's that it makes no sense.

for a start because the weapons AREN'T cobbled together from junk. Codex GSCs described them as

"A favoured armament of Arbites lawkeepers and hivegangers alike,the liberator autostub is a snubrevolver chambered for extremely powerful armour-piercing slugs.It is an iconic status symbol and reliable killing tool alike"

So it's not a cobbled together weapon, no it just so happens one of the most popular pistols in the hands of hive gangers and police officers everywhere is one almsot dieally suited to killing 8 foot tall geneticly enhanced humans in tank thick armor plate and is COMPLETE over kill against well.. hive gangers etc

I mean seriously, why the hell is the guard issuing las guns etc? apparently their average hive world has better firepower!


Please note BTW I'm not saying the Kellermorphs weapon stats are the problem, the problem is they give the character a weapon better then the stuff issue'd to the guard and say "ohh yeah, it's a normal popular civilian side arm" had they instead suggested I dunno that "by time a kellermorph appers the reach of the cult is vast, and the chosen champion can be equipped with some of the best weaponry on the world. weapons that would not be out of place on the belt of governerers or high ranking officers" it'd come off as a LOT better.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Canadian 5th wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 Irbis wrote:
But alas, SM have nothing anywhere near that broken, incidentally once again proving thread title wrong

Wait... more broken than the kellermorph?

I mean... that's not a short list, right? The kellermorph is... fine, in a vacuum, but SM has a bunch of stuff that outperforms it. And the kellermorph has the handicap of being GSC.

A SM player that is berating a GSC player for being too powerful is... hilarious.

"What can marines not do?" = be humble, apparently.

Why do his cobbled together pistols have D2 and why can he fire them as fast as an autocannon? The issue isn't that the Kellermorph is good it's that it makes no sense.

for a start because the weapons AREN'T cobbled together from junk. Codex GSCs described them as

"A favoured armament of Arbites lawkeepers and hivegangers alike,the liberator autostub is a snubrevolver chambered for extremely powerful armour-piercing slugs.It is an iconic status symbol and reliable killing tool alike"

So it's not a cobbled together weapon, no it just so happens one of the most popular pistols in the hands of hive gangers and police officers everywhere is one almsot dieally suited to killing 8 foot tall geneticly enhanced humans in tank thick armor plate and is COMPLETE over kill against well.. hive gangers etc

I mean seriously, why the hell is the guard issuing las guns etc? apparently their average hive world has better firepower!


Please note BTW I'm not saying the Kellermorphs weapon stats are the problem, the problem is they give the character a weapon better then the stuff issue'd to the guard and say "ohh yeah, it's a normal popular civilian side arm" had they instead suggested I dunno that "by time a kellermorph appers the reach of the cult is vast, and the chosen champion can be equipped with some of the best weaponry on the world. weapons that would not be out of place on the belt of governerers or high ranking officers" it'd come off as a LOT better.

The basic autostub firing normal rounds might be a civilian or Arbites firearm but the Kellermorph description says his liberator autostubs are custom pistols using special ammunition, that often costs the lives of the maker to make.

The 40K battle represented by the tabletop game is likely a pivotal moment for the GSC so the Kellermorph is being profligate with the ammunition. I could see the Kellermorph using normal ammunition for lesser conflicts, such as picking off a troublesome gang leader instead.

Iracundus wrote:


The basic autostub firing normal rounds might be a civilian or Arbites firearm but the Kellermorph description says his liberator autostubs are custom pistols using special ammunition, that often costs the lives of the maker to make.

The 40K battle represented by the tabletop game is likely a pivotal moment for the GSC so the Kellermorph is being profligate with the ammunition. I could see the Kellermorph using normal ammunition for lesser conflicts, such as picking off a troublesome gang leader instead.

GW and firearms fluff are always entertaining.

Marines fire caseless ammunition. So all those brass shell casings we paint on scenic bases... isn't supposed to be there. That's the "case". Which their ammunition doesn't use.

BrianDavion wrote:
"A favoured armament of Arbites lawkeepers and hivegangers alike,the liberator autostub is a snubrevolver chambered for extremely powerful armour-piercing slugs.It is an iconic status symbol and reliable killing tool alike"

So it's not a cobbled together weapon, no it just so happens one of the most popular pistols in the hands of hive gangers and police officers everywhere is one almsot dieally suited to killing 8 foot tall geneticly enhanced humans in tank thick armor plate and is COMPLETE over kill against well.. hive gangers etc

I mean seriously, why the hell is the guard issuing las guns etc? apparently their average hive world has better firepower!


Please note BTW I'm not saying the Kellermorphs weapon stats are the problem, the problem is they give the character a weapon better then the stuff issue'd to the guard and say "ohh yeah, it's a normal popular civilian side arm" had they instead suggested I dunno that "by time a kellermorph appers the reach of the cult is vast, and the chosen champion can be equipped with some of the best weaponry on the world. weapons that would not be out of place on the belt of governerers or high ranking officers" it'd come off as a LOT better.

Even if that were the case it makes the Astartes seem like idiots for using bolt pistols instead of these wunder cannons that any gang off the street can obtain if they mug a space cop.

agrteed. I mean.. the person working on them spends a small lifetime making a handful of bullets before the horrid working conditions kills him.. that's not special in the IoM that's tuesday!

BrianDavion wrote:
agrteed. I mean.. the person working on them spends a small lifetime making a handful of bullets before the horrid working conditions kills him.. that's not special in the IoM that's tuesday!

For you, the day Bison assigned you to bullet manufacturing, was the most important day in your life. But for me, it was Tuesday.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
"A favoured armament of Arbites lawkeepers and hivegangers alike,the liberator autostub is a snubrevolver chambered for extremely powerful armour-piercing slugs.It is an iconic status symbol and reliable killing tool alike"

So it's not a cobbled together weapon, no it just so happens one of the most popular pistols in the hands of hive gangers and police officers everywhere is one almsot dieally suited to killing 8 foot tall geneticly enhanced humans in tank thick armor plate and is COMPLETE over kill against well.. hive gangers etc

I mean seriously, why the hell is the guard issuing las guns etc? apparently their average hive world has better firepower!


Please note BTW I'm not saying the Kellermorphs weapon stats are the problem, the problem is they give the character a weapon better then the stuff issue'd to the guard and say "ohh yeah, it's a normal popular civilian side arm" had they instead suggested I dunno that "by time a kellermorph appers the reach of the cult is vast, and the chosen champion can be equipped with some of the best weaponry on the world. weapons that would not be out of place on the belt of governerers or high ranking officers" it'd come off as a LOT better.

Even if that were the case it makes the Astartes seem like idiots for using bolt pistols instead of these wunder cannons that any gang off the street can obtain if they mug a space cop.

Astartes, (And street gangs) can get Plasma Pistols which can operate at S8 -3 D2, well beyond the Kelermorph weapons. Marines can equip whole squads with them.

That's a monumentally stupid complaint to make since LSM characters are often rocking Damage 2-4 weapons which are often Pistols.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Astartes, (And street gangs) can get Plasma Pistols which can operate at S8 -3 D2, well beyond the Kelermorph weapons. Marines can equip whole squads with them.

They can get items which have a chance of blowing them up and which are rare meaning there will never be enough to go around. One the other hand, these pistols are common among the Arbutus and aren't noted for blowing up the soldier using them. Given this scenario what in-universe reason would there be for not using these in place in place of standard bolt pistols? They're simply better.

 Bosskelot wrote:
That's a monumentally stupid complaint to make since LSM characters are often rocking Damage 2-4 weapons which are often Pistols.

Name a single 4 damage pistol in codex space Marines. Even in the 9th edition codex which buffed a few weapons there are no pistols that deal THAT much damage (the closest I can think of is the Neo-Volkite pistol, which is 2 damage pistol 2. but that's not a 2 damage pistol and neo-Volkite are 1: brand new and reserved only for the elite. 2: are cutting edge IoM technology)

I do indeed think it's fair to look at the stats of those pistols and say ".. that seems a bit much for civilians"

BrianDavion wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
That's a monumentally stupid complaint to make since LSM characters are often rocking Damage 2-4 weapons which are often Pistols.

Name a single 4 damage pistol in codex space Marines. Even in the 9th edition codex which buffed a few weapons there are no pistols that deal THAT much damage (the closest I can think of is the Neo-Volkite pistol, which is 2 damage pistol 2. but that's not a 2 damage pistol and neo-Volkite are 1: brand new and reserved only for the elite. 2: are cutting edge IoM technology)

I do indeed think it's fair to look at the stats of those pistols and say ".. that seems a bit much for civilians"

Inferno Pistol. Sunwrath is also a Pistol 2 Ancient Always safe Supercharged Plasma., maybe another few Relics. Kind of sort of the Primaris Apothecary within 3". But nobody is rocking 3 of them and Gunslinger. Truth be told the problem with the Kellermorph - such as it is - is Gunslinger not the pistol. Exploding Pistol 6 Sniper 2+'s are probably a little much. Assuming the rules I'm reading are right. You're going to get 9+ hits on average. 5 out of 6 on a 2+ and exploding 2+'s into more more than 4 out of 5 extra hits 9 hits 4.5 wounds, 9 Damage. That'll put a hurt on almost any/every (basic) HQ. A Farseer is hurting if not dead (4.5 damage after a 4++ by the rough math) A Necron Lord will be less wounded by virtue of being tougher, but still almost as dead. A Tau ethereal (sans drones) is just a red mist floating in the air. Much like a Guard Colonel.

Considering the pricepoint of the kellermorph neither the ethereal nor the Colonel have any buissness surviving though...

Not Online!!! wrote:
Considering the pricepoint of the kellermorph neither the ethereal nor the Colonel have any buissness surviving though...

Considering the price point of the Kellermorph it has no business putting out 9 or better Sniper (ignores Look Out Sir) shots, especially in an era where command/bodyguard squads were limited at best.

Breton wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Considering the pricepoint of the kellermorph neither the ethereal nor the Colonel have any buissness surviving though...

Considering the price point of the Kellermorph it has no business putting out 9 or better Sniper (ignores Look Out Sir) shots, especially in an era where command/bodyguard squads were limited at best.

Disagree, because by that metric you'd have to admit that neither Bolter discipline, nor intercessors, nor aggressors are equally acceptable, same applies to eliminators.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Breton wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Considering the pricepoint of the kellermorph neither the ethereal nor the Colonel have any buissness surviving though...

Considering the price point of the Kellermorph it has no business putting out 9 or better Sniper (ignores Look Out Sir) shots, especially in an era where command/bodyguard squads were limited at best.

Disagree, because by that metric you'd have to admit that neither Bolter discipline, nor intercessors, nor aggressors are equally acceptable, same applies to eliminators.

Do they ignore Look Out Sir? No? Then I don't have to agree. Ratlings are the cheapest sniper unit I can think of, and they cost you an extra 20 points for 6.67 -0 D1 Look Out Sir hits as opposed to 9+ -1 D2 Look Out Sir hits. Tau Sniper Drones will net you 5 for the same price and they'll put out 5/10 shots of which 2-4 will hit. Now Eliminators DO ignore Look Out sir, and are only 10 points more than the Kellermorph, lets look at see how many shots they get. They get.... 3. at -2 D2 of which 2.5 will hit. Or they get D3 each, average 2, 6 at -0 D1. Yeah you got me there. Eliminators should absolutely not put out 9 -1 D2 Ignores Look Out Sir hits for their price point. And they don't.

Breton wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Breton wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Considering the pricepoint of the kellermorph neither the ethereal nor the Colonel have any buissness surviving though...

Considering the price point of the Kellermorph it has no business putting out 9 or better Sniper (ignores Look Out Sir) shots, especially in an era where command/bodyguard squads were limited at best.

Disagree, because by that metric you'd have to admit that neither Bolter discipline, nor intercessors, nor aggressors are equally acceptable, same applies to eliminators.

Do they ignore Look Out Sir? No? Then I don't have to agree. Ratlings are the cheapest sniper unit I can think of, and they cost you an extra 20 points for 6.67 -0 D1 Look Out Sir hits as opposed to 9+ -1 D2 Look Out Sir hits. Tau Sniper Drones will net you 5 for the same price and they'll put out 5/10 shots of which 2-4 will hit. Now Eliminators DO ignore Look Out sir, and are only 10 points more than the Kellermorph, lets look at see how many shots they get. They get.... 3. at -2 D2 of which 2.5 will hit. Or they get D3 each, average 2, 6 at -0 D1. Yeah you got me there. Eliminators should absolutely not put out 9 -1 D2 Ignores Look Out Sir hits for their price point. And they don't.

feeling defensive are we? Is it also acceptable that eliminators ignore los and do so from far more range?
And frankly unlike the kellermorph they don't need to insta return their investments because they can sit happily outside of an enemies range and even outside LOS and plink away at your enemy...

So again, is it wierd that a stubgun is outperforming boltguns, yes, is it gamebreaking? Not more so then any of the named issues.

Not Online!!! wrote:


feeling defensive are we?

Nope, I'm pretty used to and entertained by your dishonest shenanigans by now.
Me: Unit A shouldn't put out that much Sniper for it's price points.
Oh yeah? What about these 4 Space Marines units that don't ignore Look Out Sir at all, and one that does?! You have to agree they shouldn't exist either, because your point about Look Out Sir has nothing to do with this at all.

Is it also acceptable that eliminators ignore los and do so from far more range?

Yes, it's OK that a sniper unit WELL within the average rate of return for a sniper unit can ignore Look Out Sir. As I pointed out, their output is well within the same range as most of the other sniper units - Ratlings are about the same, Scouts are about the same, Rangers are about the same (6 shots, 4 hits at a little under 80 points), the Sniper Drone probably needs a quality bump and is underpowered.

And frankly unlike the kellermorph they don't need to insta return their investments because they can sit happily outside of an enemies range and even outside LOS and plink away at your enemy...

So again, is it wierd that a stubgun is outperforming boltguns, yes, is it gamebreaking? Not more so then any of the named issues.

Oh look, more of your dishonest shenanigans. I didn't complain about the pistol, as the quote shows you lying about. Again.

Truth be told the problem with the Kellermorph - such as it is - is Gunslinger not the pistol.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Is it also acceptable that eliminators ignore los and do so from far more range?
And frankly unlike the kellermorph they don't need to insta return their investments because they can sit happily outside of an enemies range and even outside LOS and plink away at your enemy...

Eliminators can't ignore LOS. GW changed that with the new codex. So apparently GW thought that yes a "ignores LOS sniper rifle was, in retrospect, a bad idea"

BrianDavion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Is it also acceptable that eliminators ignore los and do so from far more range?
And frankly unlike the kellermorph they don't need to insta return their investments because they can sit happily outside of an enemies range and even outside LOS and plink away at your enemy...

Eliminators can't ignore LOS. GW changed that with the new codex. So apparently GW thought that yes a "ignores LOS sniper rifle was, in retrospect, a bad idea"

I assumed he meant Ignore Look Out Sir not Line Of Sight? Eliminators can still Ignore Look Out Sir.

Although, in retrospect, you may be right. He's not exactly the most honest person on here.

Breton wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:


feeling defensive are we?

Nope, I'm pretty used to and entertained by your dishonest shenanigans by now.
Me: Unit A shouldn't put out that much Sniper for it's price points.
Oh yeah? What about these 4 Space Marines units that don't ignore Look Out Sir at all, and one that does?! You have to agree they shouldn't exist either, because your point about Look Out Sir has nothing to do with this at all.

Sorry, but the ammount of shots off all these units is off, the same issue you complain about they might not ignore look out sir in many cases but are all in the same ballpark for beeing an issue...

And yes, go through your post history, you are feeling defensive that you marines are a far bigger issue, constantly downplaying.. but claiming dishonesty via semantics is something you are good in, as is you misrepresenting a point.

Is it also acceptable that eliminators ignore los and do so from far more range?

Yes, it's OK that a sniper unit WELL within the average rate of return for a sniper unit can ignore Look Out Sir. As I pointed out, their output is well within the same range as most of the other sniper units - Ratlings are about the same, Scouts are about the same, Rangers are about the same (6 shots, 4 hits at a little under 80 points), the Sniper Drone probably needs a quality bump and is underpowered.

So this is what i meant I MEAN LINE OF SIGHT, a distinct lack of condition that eliminators don't need to fullfill, outperforming therefore all units on this list but like you said
"dishonest shenanigans" , because i am frankly secure that you know what i meant with the eliminator issue.

And frankly unlike the kellermorph they don't need to insta return their investments because they can sit happily outside of an enemies range and even outside LOS and plink away at your enemy...

So again, is it wierd that a stubgun is outperforming boltguns, yes, is it gamebreaking? Not more so then any of the named issues.

Oh look, more of your dishonest shenanigans. I didn't complain about the pistol, as the quote shows you lying about. Again.

Truth be told the problem with the Kellermorph - such as it is - is Gunslinger not the pistol.

the gunslinger trait beeing associated with cost and ignoring look out sir, is a combination, found in many ways, but like the eradicator discussion in which you so ardently insist landspeeders are better, then the unit that showed up instantly after it's release i doubt it is i who is dishonest.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Breton wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:


feeling defensive are we?

Nope, I'm pretty used to and entertained by your dishonest shenanigans by now.
Me: Unit A shouldn't put out that much Sniper for it's price points.
Oh yeah? What about these 4 Space Marines units that don't ignore Look Out Sir at all, and one that does?! You have to agree they shouldn't exist either, because your point about Look Out Sir has nothing to do with this at all.

Sorry, but the ammount of shots off all these units is off, the same issue you complain about they might not ignore look out sir in many cases but are all in the same ballpark for beeing an issue...

And yes, go through your post history, you are feeling defensive that you marines are a far bigger issue, constantly downplaying.. but claiming dishonesty via semantics is something you are good in, as is you misrepresenting a point.

Is it also acceptable that eliminators ignore los and do so from far more range?

Yes, it's OK that a sniper unit WELL within the average rate of return for a sniper unit can ignore Look Out Sir. As I pointed out, their output is well within the same range as most of the other sniper units - Ratlings are about the same, Scouts are about the same, Rangers are about the same (6 shots, 4 hits at a little under 80 points), the Sniper Drone probably needs a quality bump and is underpowered.

So this is what i meant I MEAN LINE OF SIGHT, a distinct lack of condition that eliminators don't need to fullfill, outperforming therefore all units on this list but like you said
"dishonest shenanigans" , because i am frankly secure that you know what i meant with the eliminator issue.

And frankly unlike the kellermorph they don't need to insta return their investments because they can sit happily outside of an enemies range and even outside LOS and plink away at your enemy...

So again, is it wierd that a stubgun is outperforming boltguns, yes, is it gamebreaking? Not more so then any of the named issues.

Oh look, more of your dishonest shenanigans. I didn't complain about the pistol, as the quote shows you lying about. Again.

Truth be told the problem with the Kellermorph - such as it is - is Gunslinger not the pistol.

I repeat. Codex Space Marines 9.0 Nerfed Eliminators, they do not have a option to Ignore LOS anymore. they now simply have a round that ignores cover. at the cost of going from 2 dmg to 1 dmg and losing a point of AP

Not Online!!! wrote:

Breton wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:


feeling defensive are we?

Nope, I'm pretty used to and entertained by your dishonest shenanigans by now.
Me: Unit A shouldn't put out that much Sniper for it's price points.
Oh yeah? What about these 4 Space Marines units that don't ignore Look Out Sir at all, and one that does?! You have to agree they shouldn't exist either, because your point about Look Out Sir has nothing to do with this at all.

Sorry, but the ammount of shots off all these units is off, the same issue you complain about they might not ignore look out sir in many cases but are all in the same ballpark for beeing an issue...


And yes, go through your post history, you are feeling defensive that you marines are a far bigger issue, constantly downplaying.. but claiming dishonesty via semantics is something you are good in, as is you misrepresenting a point.

Liar says what? I'm not going to feel defensive because you can't be honest about the discussion, that's your problem not mine.

Is it also acceptable that eliminators ignore los and do so from far more range?

Yes, it's OK that a sniper unit WELL within the average rate of return for a sniper unit can ignore Look Out Sir. As I pointed out, their output is well within the same range as most of the other sniper units - Ratlings are about the same, Scouts are about the same, Rangers are about the same (6 shots, 4 hits at a little under 80 points), the Sniper Drone probably needs a quality bump and is underpowered.

So this is what i meant I MEAN LINE OF SIGHT, a distinct lack of condition that eliminators don't need to fullfill, outperforming therefore all units on this list but like you said
"dishonest shenanigans" , because i am frankly secure that you know what i meant with the eliminator issue.

No, it appears I gave you more credit than I should have.

Oh look, more of your dishonest shenanigans. I didn't complain about the pistol, as the quote shows you lying about. Again.

Truth be told the problem with the Kellermorph - such as it is - is Gunslinger not the pistol.

So why did you keep this quote tweet of you lying again?

BrianDavion wrote:
I repeat. Codex Space Marines 9.0 Nerfed Eliminators, they do not have a option to Ignore LOS anymore. they now simply have a round that ignores cover. at the cost of going from 2 dmg to 1 dmg and losing a point of AP

Look out Sir and Line of Sight have the same abbreviation...

Breton wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Considering the pricepoint of the kellermorph neither the ethereal nor the Colonel have any buissness surviving though...

Considering the price point of the Kellermorph it has no business putting out 9 or better Sniper (ignores Look Out Sir) shots, especially in an era where command/bodyguard squads were limited at best.

Wellp, i guess i misread were instead of Where, and assumed you wanted to point to release state... My bad, but the point still stands for the price the Kellermorph is a suicide unit that either makes its pts back or dies off unlike any of the named other Sniper units..
That is indeed my bad.

However i won't take back that you feel defensive, because one can go through your ammount of Posts and find that out rather fast. Heck you can through this very thread to find some of that.
And Rule 1 still applies , calling somone outright a liar, and dishonest argumentation is imo over that point.

not to mention that as soon as someone does disagree with you, you attempt to argue that said poster " Misrepresents " or "Lies"..

 Jidmah wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I repeat. Codex Space Marines 9.0 Nerfed Eliminators, they do not have a option to Ignore LOS anymore. they now simply have a round that ignores cover. at the cost of going from 2 dmg to 1 dmg and losing a point of AP

Look out Sir and Line of Sight have the same abbreviation...

ahh right, derp. Anyway, I did feel it's worth noting eliminators got nerfed. looking at what the keller morph could do, and what the nerf was (basicly it effedctively got the "core keyword" treatment applied to it's aura) it'd say the nerf was about right and right now the unit is potent, potentially a game changer but yeah I don't think it's broken.