Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
- Contemptors all BS/WS3.
- Chaos Contemptors no longer heal, but they did pick up -1 damage.
- Most things seem to require you to pay an additional CP if you take it - PER model
- No 4++ to be found on any dread loyalist or otherwise.
- Leviathans are NOT CORE.
@Gadzilla - looks like the Felblade is 600 point base. D3 on the main cannon, but it looks like it might be T8 2+. No more reroll shots - just blast.
Anyone else been looking and find anything interesting?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/10/31 15:59:14
T7, 5++, BS 3+, cost a CP in addition to points. Yeah, their points went down but I think they lost their niche...
I may be overreacting, but I certainly think we'll see a LOT less of them. Which is probably a good thing?
Custodes is mostly all good news though! Some point cuts and some nice buffs. Particularly for me, Saggitarum got D2 for bolter mode, which is a very nice buff.
Daedalus81 wrote: @Gadzilla - looks like the Felblade is 600 point base. D3 on the main cannon, but it looks like it might be T8 2+. No more reroll shots - just blast.
It's more useable now, but the loss of T9 without anything to compensate is a big hit. It's basically just a slightly better Baneblade now, main gun rules depending. I'm assuming you're talking about the HE shells? See anything on the AE profile?
Dreadclaws are a huge winner. They got the loyalist drop pod rules, so first turn deep strike. Their blade struts are now S12, AP-4 D3, and they do MWs to units that they fly over. 9W means no degrading stats as well, and a 15 point, or 11% price cut to boot.
Funny, that GK have more art pages then actual rules, so they spread 2 units over 2 pages. Made me chuckle.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
Daedalus81 wrote: @Gadzilla - looks like the Felblade is 600 point base. D3 on the main cannon, but it looks like it might be T8 2+. No more reroll shots - just blast.
It's more useable now, but the loss of T9 without anything to compensate is a big hit. It's basically just a slightly better Baneblade now, main gun rules depending. I'm assuming you're talking about the HE shells? See anything on the AE profile?
Dreadclaws are a huge winner. They got the loyalist drop pod rules, so first turn deep strike. Their blade struts are now S12, AP-4 D3, and they do MWs to units that they fly over. 9W means no degrading stats as well, and a 15 point, or 11% price cut to boot.
Since this is being billed as a total rework, it's sad to see a lot of really cool models not getting the attention they deserve.
Personally the only FW model I own is a Canoptek Tomb Stalker and it got an expected WS/BS nerf but without the extra attacks that others got. Whilst it did go down in points, I would prefer the rules actually reflected the model. It's huge and imposing and deserves a better statline IMO
Thank goodness. Leviathan is toned down, especially with the Lack of Core and the invul adjustment. So now it’s a cool model that can do some good work but it’s not dominating.
All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand
Daedalus81 wrote: @Gadzilla - looks like the Felblade is 600 point base. D3 on the main cannon, but it looks like it might be T8 2+. No more reroll shots - just blast.
It's more useable now, but the loss of T9 without anything to compensate is a big hit. It's basically just a slightly better Baneblade now, main gun rules depending. I'm assuming you're talking about the HE shells? See anything on the AE profile?
Dreadclaws are a huge winner. They got the loyalist drop pod rules, so first turn deep strike. Their blade struts are now S12, AP-4 D3, and they do MWs to units that they fly over. 9W means no degrading stats as well, and a 15 point, or 11% price cut to boot.
AE is the same. Nice catch on the pod.
Really? So, a slightly tougher Baneblade with an inferior main gun and more lascannons. *sigh* At least I can play it without totally nerfing the rest of my army now.
I read the Goonhammer article and was pretty surprised that some Astra Militarum units that remained got some serious buffs. Not broken ones I assume, but things that make them definitly more useful. If the source can be believed:
Carnodons slightly cheaper + more wounds
Cyclops Demolition Charge slightly cheaper + can ride transports (but not detonate when it gets out)
Medusas: D6 damage
Malcadors: all down in points
Malcador Infernus: 3D6 Infernus shots (now costs ~ 3x Hellhound and fires like ~ 3x Hellhound, also the one vehicle were the new DKOK "fire one last time" might do something meaningful)
Hades Drill: can be taken separatly, D3+3 attacks, flat 3 damage against non-vehicles and 6 against vehicles
Trojans can reload a single use weapon instead of giving +1 to hit (might be hilarious on Deathstrikes
Stormblade +1 Damage on the Maingun
Preator: +1D6 shots on the Firestorm Missile
But I think (!) the biggest thing is:
Death Riders and Death Rider Command Squad: still 15 points per rider but:
+1 Wound
5++ against everything instead of just S4 or less
AP -3, D2 on the lance on the charge, AP-1 as CC weapon outside of the charge, AP-1 on the claw weapon
"Deepstrike" without the need for the Command Squad
Command squad can be taken without Commander/ don't take up a slop of commander is present.
That is HUUUGE. Point for point Death Riders might be a real alternative for Bullgryns. Much faster, hit harder on the charge and relativly sturdy. If I'm not mistaken the 3 Death riders you can get for each Bullgryn can always soak up more damage then the Bruteshield Bullgryn. And compared to Slabshield Bullgryn they are worse against S4,5,8 AP0, equal against S3,6,7, AP0 and S4 AP-1 and better against everything else.
~7510 build and painted
1312 build and painted
1200
Cynista wrote: Since this is being billed as a total rework, it's sad to see a lot of really cool models not getting the attention they deserve.
I don't like that they stripped out the flavor for a lot of stuff, but there's still interesting things to be found. Maybe we'll see a return of other things through the specialty unit rules like SW has.
Anybody get a good look at the Chaos Land Raider Achilles? It looks to me like the Soulburner Bombard has gone back to being a quad launcher and did I see twin volkite as an option? Do they still have twin multi-meltas? Anything on the points?
Also, am I crazy, or are the Chaos Falchion and Fellblade both 600 PPM? And I don't see a havoc launcher in the options, but I do think I see a multi-melta. Anyone squinting at something bigger than a phone? Daed?
For Tyranids BOTH hyrodules are now heavies and under 300 points. Also Dimachaeron got some changes, the claws seem a LOT better than before, though.
235 for a Scythed Hyrodule looks very nice to me. Nids finally have some heavy hitters in melee.
Secutarii still dont get FW dogma though. boo.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/31 23:14:50
Gadzilla666 wrote: Anybody get a good look at the Chaos Land Raider Achilles? It looks to me like the Soulburner Bombard has gone back to being a quad launcher and did I see twin volkite as an option? Do they still have twin multi-meltas? Anything on the points?
Also, am I crazy, or are the Chaos Falchion and Fellblade both 600 PPM? And I don't see a havoc launcher in the options, but I do think I see a multi-melta. Anyone squinting at something bigger than a phone? Daed?
Yea no bombard and yes to twin volkite. Volkites can become twin MM. 320 base - no spike tax. No havoc - it is now a hellforged hunter killer missile oddly enough.
How many units do ya think ya gotta own for this book to be "worth it" in paperback? I'm mulling over biting the bullet, but with me only owning 7 FW models, I am /hard pressed/ not to just pirate it and print off the 7 datasheets and points listings.
Eldar are underwhelming. I'll comment on the models I've played with.
Shadow Spectres lost the auto-hit setting of their gun in exchange for a blast setting. The concentrated setting lost the ability to get extra hits but became damage 3. They gained a "deep strike" option. Everything else looks the same, or near enough. 26 points per. Probably a sidegrade.
Warp Hunters basically swapped out their blast profile for a D-cannon, which is worse but not drastically so. Looks like 195 for points.
Hornets are now -1 to hit all the time; no need to advance. 80 points each.
Wraithseer is now Heavy Support, and is no longer a character. That's a big loss. It seems to have lost its invulnerable save in exchange for reducing AP -1 to AP 0 on incoming attacks. It also lost its bespoke psychic powers for Smite and 1 Runes of Battle power, which is definitely an upgrade (though I wish they had fixed the bespoke powers to be useful, just because that's cool). Points are 130, 170 with a D-cannon (yikes!). It's hard to tell if the profile has changed, but absent something like more wounds or a 2+ save the Wraithseer looks a lot worse. Though it can use Runes of Fortune now...
vaklor4 wrote: How many units do ya think ya gotta own for this book to be "worth it" in paperback? I'm mulling over biting the bullet, but with me only owning 7 FW models, I am /hard pressed/ not to just pirate it and print off the 7 datasheets and points listings.
It's an expensive book with nothing interesting in it other than rules, and even the rules aren't much. If it was like the old index and I could buy an electronic version for $25 or whatever I'd definitely do that. However, I have very little interest in lugging around a huge, $65 book for the three-pages worth of rules I actually use in my games.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/01 04:48:07
Madness is however an affliction which in war carries with it the advantage of surprise - Winston Churchill
Saber wrote: Eldar are underwhelming. I'll comment on the models I've played with.
Shadow Spectres lost the auto-hit setting of their gun in exchange for a blast setting. The concentrated setting lost the ability to get extra hits but became damage 3. They gained a "deep strike" option. Everything else looks the same, or near enough. 26 points per. Probably a sidegrade.
You overlooked the flamer getting an 18 inch range. That’s huge. Add in that Irillyth gives them reroll ones, and he gets a 4++ now which is a great addition for a Phoenix Lord. These guys are pretty great!
We mortals are but shadows and dust...
6k
:harlequin: 2k
2k
2k
vaklor4 wrote: How many units do ya think ya gotta own for this book to be "worth it" in paperback? I'm mulling over biting the bullet, but with me only owning 7 FW models, I am /hard pressed/ not to just pirate it and print off the 7 datasheets and points listings.
Definitely more than 7. I'd just print the datasheets I need in the remote case I'd ever need to play one.
Excluding in tournaments, when I head to the gaming club I usually carry with me only the codex and the battlescribe printout of my list. I'll skip this book because I basically never used the IA Index last edition, never brought it physically to a game.
Hmmm - The only FW I used was Bray'arth Ashmantle and boy did he get changed
- He dropped ~ 100 points (220)
- He went from T9 to T7 (boo)
- He no longer has the restriction barring him from taking a WLT unless he's the only character (meaning he can be made T9 again)
- His FNP went from 4+++ to 5+++
- He has the same inbuilt damage resistance as all other Dreadnoughts
- Dreadfire heavyflamers went from 3D to 2D, but the range is up to 12" as per the new standard
- His attacks went up by 2 and damage changed to flat 4 making him an absolute beast in CC - (7 attacks first round of combat)
- Burning wrath is still completely useless because his dreadfire heavyflamers are still usable when locked and BW are pistols.
I'd run him I think, still an absolute anchor unit despite losing the innate T9 and 4+++. The inbuilt duty eternal, FNP, invuln, 2++, and ability to make T9 as a Salamander WLT still make it a tough cookie. With the point drop and the CC increase it feels potentially worth it to just own the midfield with him.
I've had a kitbash I was ready to put together but I was holding off before I saw the rules.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/01 07:37:59
I own 3 FW-tanks for my IG and my reaction to them where "Nice, meh and bleh", but also a "Oh, nice surprise".
Nice: The Malcador Infernus.
Got cheaper and gained an extra D6 shots with it's main gun. Can now probably be used without feeling like I'm hamstringing myself.
Meh: The Macharius Battle Tank.
Not sure if it actually changed and it was quite bad to begin with.
It still costs like 2 kitted out Leman Russ Battle Tanks but deals less damage and is easier to kill.
If they'd given it the grinding advance-rule that the russes have I'd consider it, but now it's just a waste of CP given it's LoW nature.
Bleh: The Valdor Tank Hunter.
It was already bad, and they managed to make it worse by changing it's weapon from Heavy 2D3 to Heavy 3. It also costs more than the Macharius Tanks (wtf!?).
In what world is 3 BS3 S12 AP3 D6 (if it didn't move) shots worth 340 pts? It's unreliable to both hit and wound with it's rather poor BS, S and AP given it's role.
I would genuinely rather bring 2 Leman Russ Vanquishers, and that's saying something.
Oh nice surprise: The Macharius Vanquisher.
Unlike it's brother, the Vanquisher-version actually got some well-needed improvements.
Costs less than the Valdor Tank Hunter, and while it has one less shot, the two shots it does have are quite likely to hit given it's +to hit against vehicles/monsters and wound with it's respectable S16 AP4 - and when it does it, it will hurt with it's flat D9.
Coincidentally, I think the Macharius Vanquisher will replace both my Macharius and Valdor; I'll use my Macharus as a Vanquisher (might convert it a bit) and use it for the role I originally got the Valdor for (AT/AM.)
Edit: As for the book itself, I can't see myself spending €50 on it, because it's honestly not worth it.
There's so much blank spaces on the pages and general lack of imagery and fluff that it feels like GW simply didn't care and just throw it together in a rush.
I don't want to reward them for this botch-job.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/01 07:53:29
Roknar wrote: So no model, no rule now means we lost all our chaos tech because FW happens to only make loyalist versions?
what did chaos lose exactly?
It looks like 1000kSons and DG lost access to all the FW stuff, except the DG special model. It looks like a keyword misstep, but right now we have to wait for the day 1 FAQ.
Roknar wrote: So no model, no rule now means we lost all our chaos tech because FW happens to only make loyalist versions?
what did chaos lose exactly?
Previously Chaos Contemptors, Deredeos and Leviathans were running around with odd sounding guns such as Soulburner Petards and Butcher Cannon Arrays. Many of these don't have a gun model and you just used a loyalist gun that looked similar, e.g. Storm Cannon Arrays for BCAs.
Now, a lot of these special guns have dissapeared (although the Decimator has a Butcher Cannon because it has a gun model for it) and have been replaced with the loyalist versions in the data sheets.
~7510 build and painted
1312 build and painted
1200 
60PL 
12PL 
6k
2k
5500 pts 
6500 pts 
7000 pts 
9000 pts 
13.000 pts 
The Bloody Sails