Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, question about deploying a drop pod, then getting units out, then charging and how to measure.

Say you find a little spot in your opponents screen - more than 9 inches from each enemy model. Does that spot have to be big enough for the drop pod to be placed as you want, or does it just have to be big enough for the drop pod base to fit?

By that I mean would there have to be 9 inches from the base or 9 inches from the doors (if opened)?

Reason for asking is I played someone who found a spot, and yes, the drop pod could fit and yes, it was 9 inches from the base but then he deployed it with the doors open, got his vanguard vets out and only had a tiny charge to make, rolled miserably and then my venerable dreadnought got angry and killed. Lots.

I was cool with it, but some other players I spoke with later got into a very... animated discussion about whether that was rules compliant or not. So hence the question

What thinks ye fellow players, what thinks ye?

From page 199 of the Core Rules ("Measuring Distances"):

Distances are measured in inches (") between the closest points of the bases of the models you're measuring to and from. If a model does not have a base, such as is the case with many vehicles, measure to the closest point of any part of that model; this is called measuring to the model’s hull.

The Drop Pod does not have a base.

 Ghaz wrote:
From page 199 of the Core Rules ("Measuring Distances"):

Distances are measured in inches (") between the closest points of the bases of the models you're measuring to and from. If a model does not have a base, such as is the case with many vehicles, measure to the closest point of any part of that model; this is called measuring to the model’s hull.

The Drop Pod does not have a base.

Unless his had a base.

If his drop pod had a base, you measure between the closest points of the bases of the models you're measuring to and from for everything. You would ignore the doors in this situation and would not measure to them for anything. So his vanguard vets could not have had "only had a tiny charge to make" because he would have had to disembark from the base.

As far as I know, the Drop Pod kit has never came with a base. Therefore it would be considered as a 'model that does not have a base' since conversions are not covered by the rules.

Sorry, to clarify it did not have a base per se, what I meant was he measured from the bottom of the drop pod, then opened the doors, then got his vanguard veterans out.

So that got them the length of the doors + disembark movement away from the bottom of the drop pod, if that makes sense.

Drop Pods have always been a nightmare when it comes to measuring ranges, and has often been the subject of FAQs. Hopefully the 9th edition SM codex FAQ will cover it.

Until then, make an agreement pre-game with your opponent how to deal with it.

 Ghaz wrote:
As far as I know, the Drop Pod kit has never came with a base. Therefore it would be considered as a 'model that does not have a base' since conversions are not covered by the rules.

By that line of thought you can not assemble your models either since assembly is not covered by the rules...

 XeonDragon wrote:
Sorry, to clarify it did not have a base per se, what I meant was he measured from the bottom of the drop pod, then opened the doors, then got his vanguard veterans out.

So that got them the length of the doors + disembark movement away from the bottom of the drop pod, if that makes sense.

Yea, if he wanted to measure from the opened doors, those doors would be considered hull, and you would have to use them for all measurements. so the doors would have to stay more than 9 inches away as well as the rest of the drop pod.

If he wanted to measure from the bottom of the drop pod, he should use that same point for all measurements.

 XeonDragon wrote:
Sorry, to clarify it did not have a base per se, what I meant was he measured from the bottom of the drop pod, then opened the doors, then got his vanguard veterans out.

So that got them the length of the doors + disembark movement away from the bottom of the drop pod, if that makes sense.

It does make sense how you descrive it. That is mort certanly not the way to do it.

It is common practice that models should not have movable parts. You do not turn a tank turret to peak around corners. (Looking at you leman russ.) Likevice you do not open or close a drop pod midgame.

In 8th edition GW referensed that you either deployed your pod open or closed. Up to the player. I am not sure any such spesificety is made in 9th. But you had to deside on deployment. Open certanly means a much bigger footprint as every part of it needs to be 9" away.

What your oponent failed spectaularly is the part where the drop pod says the units inside must be deployed more then 9" away as well. Not just the drop pod.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Yea, if he wanted to measure from the opened doors, those doors would be considered hull, and you would have to use them for all measurements. so the doors would have to stay more than 9 inches away as well as the rest of the drop pod.
If he wanted to measure from the bottom of the drop pod, he should use that same point for all measurements.

This. In previous editions, this had some very specific FAQs with wording that made it clear you had to choose that your drop pod would be either doors up or doors down on deployment, and once chosen it could not change.
This was under rulesets that didn't necessarily define a vehicle's "footprint" as every part of the model, mind - turrets, sponsons etc were often excluded, so FAQs were necessary because it wasn't clear whether doors should be considered part of the hull or not.

Now, under 9th, there's no difference - the doors are part of the model, therefore they count for measuring distances. If you want to put the doors down, those doors must stay over 9" away from enemy models too when it drops. Otherwise you've broken that rule.

 Niiai wrote:

It is common practice that models should not have movable parts. You do not turn a tank turret to peak around corners. (Looking at you leman russ.) Likevice you do not open or close a drop pod midgame.

Not true. Models have movable parts, and you get permission to move those parts in the movement phase (p. 206), when the unit is moved. The pod however, cant be moved, so it has no permission to open or close its doors midgame.

 Niiai wrote:

In 8th edition GW referensed that you either deployed your pod open or closed. Up to the player. I am not sure any such spesificety is made in 9th. But you had to deside on deployment. Open certanly means a much bigger footprint as every part of it needs to be 9" away.

That rule is gone in 9th.

Wow they actually have rules that cover moving parts in 9th. I did not not know.

In either case the situation originally asked in the OP is very far from within the rules of a drop pod.

 Niiai wrote:
Wow they actually have rules that cover moving parts in 9th. I did not not know.

In either case the situation originally asked in the OP is very far from within the rules of a drop pod.

It actually states, IIRC, that "no part of the model can move further than its movement characteristic". So if a leman russ with a 3" turret sits still and swivels the turret 180 degrees, the end of the turret moves 6", and as such so does the tank.

It's along the same lines that if you turn a stompa at the start of its move, it loses about 9" of movement as the front will have moved 9" in turning it, which leaves it with 3" of movement. So stompas start the game facing forwards and then strafe & slide around the board all game to avoid losing movement by turning. much realism.

As such, if a drop pod "cannot move after deployment", as I suspect it stipulates, then those doors stay up or stay down. As it was deployed is as it stays, and this has to be over 9" from enemy models. If it did open or close a door, then part of the hull would be moving, which it cannot do outside movement or charging.

Dropping the pod 9.1" away, then opening the doors and then disembarking 3" from the doors is absolutely against the rules.

Well it is not illegal to disembark 3 from the doors, you have to do that. Merly illegal do deploy within 9" of the enemy.

 Niiai wrote:
Well it is not illegal to disembark 3 from the doors, you have to do that. Merly illegal do deploy within 9" of the enemy.

That's true. My point was that opening or closing the doors = movement, therefore is illegal as drop pods cannot move.

 some bloke wrote:

It actually states, IIRC, that "no part of the model can move further than its movement characteristic". So if a leman russ with a 3" turret sits still and swivels the turret 180 degrees, the end of the turret moves 6", and as such so does the tank.

As such, if a drop pod "cannot move after deployment", as I suspect it stipulates, then those doors stay up or stay down. As it was deployed is as it stays, and this has to be over 9" from enemy models. If it did open or close a door, then part of the hull would be moving, which it cannot do outside movement or charging.

Dropping the pod 9.1" away, then opening the doors and then disembarking 3" from the doors is absolutely against the rules.

Very well put. This is kind of what I was getting at before, but didn't go into enough detail - the previous FAQs are no longer there because they don't need to be, the core rules now very much cover the need to decide whether the pod is open or closed on deploy and then cannot change.

in sort terms if the marines disembark 3 inches from a drop pod that had opened his blastdoors...they still need to be 9 inches away form any enemy unit...that means 9 inches to charge roll.

SIKAMIKA wrote:
in sort terms if the marines disembark 3 inches from a drop pod that had opened his blastdoors...they still need to be 9 inches away form any enemy unit...that means 9 inches to charge roll.

You mean they still need to be more than 9 inches away form any enemy unit when they disembark.

 DeathReaper wrote:

SIKAMIKA wrote:
in sort terms if the marines disembark 3 inches from a drop pod that had opened his blastdoors...they still need to be 9 inches away form any enemy unit...that means 9 inches to charge roll.

You mean they still need to be more than 9 inches away form any enemy unit when they disembark.

YES!! you still need a 9 inch roll to charge!

the whole drop pod thing seems to be overly analyzed for no reason.

You deploy it in any configuration (any doors open or closed) with any of its part more than 9" away from the opponent.
You disembark the stuff in it more than 9" away from the opponent.
Thats it.

You can play one game with the doors closed and the next with the doors open, but you can't change the configuration mid-game for any reason.