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So points 3 and 4 are the melee and pistol options... But there are some conflicts in wording for what I think they are trying to allow.

Point 3 is the swap the rifle option which allows only a chainsword or power sword for melee weapons and allows a special pistol while keeping the bolt pistol.

Point 4 allows the addition of any of the melee weapons, so long as you have not swapped the rifle for the chainsword or power sword(no issues with the special pistols).

If these were the only interactions, it would be a bit weird but fine enough: 2 pistols is fine, but 2 melee weapons (and a bolt pistol) is right out. But this is not the only interaction, in order to get the special pistols; you cannot have a melee weapon.

I waited to address this for when the FAQ dropped expecting it to be on there, but it is not. You, for unknown reasons, simply cannot have a special pistol and a melee weapon.

Well the jist of it is that only models that are available out of a box (past or present) and have assembly instructions are legitimate. Two powerswords would require kitbashing which is a big no-no in GW's current paradigm. Kinda the epitome of this is the gravis captain which required two separate datasheets because he comes with two different loadouts.

No Model, No Rules. Simple as that.

 Weazel wrote:
Well the jist of it is that only models that are available out of a box (past or present) and have assembly instructions are legitimate. Two powerswords would require kitbashing which is a big no-no in GW's current paradigm. Kinda the epitome of this is the gravis captain which required two separate datasheets because he comes with two different loadouts.

Follow the points in order.

Point 3 i do not have a melee weapon i may swap my gun for a special pistol.

Point 4 I do not have a melee weapon so I can take 1

What you can't do is take a melee weapon under Point 3 then a melee under Point 4 so no chainsword + powersword but plasma pistol chainsword is fine


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
No Model, No Rules. Simple as that.

There are special pistol/chainsword kits e.g the assault primaris

U02dah4 wrote:

Follow the points in order.
Point 3 i do not have a melee weapon i may swap my gun for a special pistol.
Point 4 I do not have a melee weapon so I can take 1
What you can't do is take a melee weapon under Point 3 then a melee under Point 4 so no chainsword + powersword but plasma pistol chainsword is fine

This approach doesn't work if you're following the standard Intercessor datasheet. If you're following the order strictly, by the time you get to point 3, there's no way the Sergeant could have taken any of the options that restrict what's in point 3 at all. So why even mention that restriction?
I believe you have to adhere to all points simultaneously instead, it's the only way the datasheet makes sense.

In addition, something else that rubs me the wrong way about this - notice how the Tactical squad Sergeant is laid out on the following page. You have to swap the boltgun for any of his options, meaning you can't take (for example) a plasma pistol and a power sword. It's a perfectly feasible loadout to make with the kit though, and was legal in previous editions, so why isn't it now?

 Super Ready wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:

Follow the points in order.
Point 3 i do not have a melee weapon i may swap my gun for a special pistol.
Point 4 I do not have a melee weapon so I can take 1
What you can't do is take a melee weapon under Point 3 then a melee under Point 4 so no chainsword + powersword but plasma pistol chainsword is fine

This approach doesn't work if you're following the standard Intercessor datasheet. If you're following the order strictly, by the time you get to point 3, there's no way the Sergeant could have taken any of the options that restrict what's in point 3 at all. So why even mention that restriction?
I believe you have to adhere to all points simultaneously instead, it's the only way the datasheet makes sense.

In addition, something else that rubs me the wrong way about this - notice how the Tactical squad Sergeant is laid out on the following page. You have to swap the boltgun for any of his options, meaning you can't take (for example) a plasma pistol and a power sword. It's a perfectly feasible loadout to make with the kit though, and was legal in previous editions, so why isn't it now?

This.

Not only is U02dah4 making up rules whole cloth, but those made up rules are also against the actual rules: BRB, Datasheets, #8: Wargear Options: "The Order you use these options in does not matter, but each can only be used once."

Then, you run into the issue of Taking #4 after taking #3 retro-actively makes taking #3 illegal

It is mostly the way the the rules are presented and which options give which other options. One more bullet point for Swapping the Pistol with the special pistols, leave the Add a melee weapon option, and change the swp rifle option to include all melee and only melee options would be more in line with both the previous codex and the actual bits available.

BCB: Not only are all the models currently available via upgrade kits(Imp Fist P-fist, Sallies Thammer and Hand Flamer, UM and DA give the Power Sword, You have to get the Plasma Pistol from the Hellblasters); but the Assault Intercessor box will have all the weapon options(per War-com article).

 Super Ready wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:

Follow the points in order.
Point 3 i do not have a melee weapon i may swap my gun for a special pistol.
Point 4 I do not have a melee weapon so I can take 1
What you can't do is take a melee weapon under Point 3 then a melee under Point 4 so no chainsword + powersword but plasma pistol chainsword is fine

This approach doesn't work if you're following the standard Intercessor datasheet. If you're following the order strictly, by the time you get to point 3, there's no way the Sergeant could have taken any of the options that restrict what's in point 3 at all. So why even mention that restriction?
I believe you have to adhere to all points simultaneously instead, it's the only way the datasheet makes sense.

In addition, something else that rubs me the wrong way about this - notice how the Tactical squad Sergeant is laid out on the following page. You have to swap the boltgun for any of his options, meaning you can't take (for example) a plasma pistol and a power sword. It's a perfectly feasible loadout to make with the kit though, and was legal in previous editions, so why isn't it now?

If you adhere to all points simultaneously point 4 always negates 3 and point 4 always negates itself

If you don't have a melee weapon you can take a melee weapon but then you've taken a melee weapon so you can't take one

I agree its bad writing and no I can't state the rai behind it (probably the same as usual GW need a technical writter). i have no objection to you applying points in the opposite order however doing so limits your options and there is no reason to consider your options in reverse order


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:

Follow the points in order.
Point 3 i do not have a melee weapon i may swap my gun for a special pistol.
Point 4 I do not have a melee weapon so I can take 1
What you can't do is take a melee weapon under Point 3 then a melee under Point 4 so no chainsword + powersword but plasma pistol chainsword is fine

This approach doesn't work if you're following the standard Intercessor datasheet. If you're following the order strictly, by the time you get to point 3, there's no way the Sergeant could have taken any of the options that restrict what's in point 3 at all. So why even mention that restriction?
I believe you have to adhere to all points simultaneously instead, it's the only way the datasheet makes sense.

In addition, something else that rubs me the wrong way about this - notice how the Tactical squad Sergeant is laid out on the following page. You have to swap the boltgun for any of his options, meaning you can't take (for example) a plasma pistol and a power sword. It's a perfectly feasible loadout to make with the kit though, and was legal in previous editions, so why isn't it now?

This.

Not only is U02dah4 making up rules whole cloth, but those made up rules are also against the actual rules: BRB, Datasheets, #8: Wargear Options: "The Order you use these options in does not matter, but each can only be used once."

Then, you run into the issue of Taking #4 after taking #3 retro-actively makes taking #3 illegal

It is mostly the way the the rules are presented and which options give which other options. One more bullet point for Swapping the Pistol with the special pistols, leave the Add a melee weapon option, and change the swp rifle option to include all melee and only melee options would be more in line with both the previous codex and the actual bits available.

BCB: Not only are all the models currently available via upgrade kits(Imp Fist P-fist, Sallies Thammer and Hand Flamer, UM and DA give the Power Sword, You have to get the Plasma Pistol from the Hellblasters); but the Assault Intercessor box will have all the weapon options(per War-com article).

yes thats gw in a t saying saying the order they are applied doesn't matter but then wording them in a way where it clearly does. However since you have permission to apply them in any order as you have just quoted it makes sense to consider the more permissive option of 3 before 4

So which rule have I made up

U02dah4 wrote:
If you don't have a melee weapon you can take a melee weapon but then you've taken a melee weapon so you can't take one

If you check the datasheet again, notice that the restriction prevents you from swapping any further weapons in that option. It doesn't say you cannot have that weapon full stop.

And thats relevant to the above statement because....


If you don't take a small section of what I say out of context

It was a criticism of the person saying you had to meet all points simultaneously in which case the above is correct you can't take a melee weapon in an option that doesn't let you take a melee weapon if you have a melee weapon as you no longer meet the requirement simultaneously.

which is obviously wrong thus the criticism stands.

However as established there is no requirement to meet all points simultaneously as established through commissar kels quote so your comment has no relevance to the actual answer of - you can take either point in either order so it makes sense to use the more permissive option which allows you take a specialist pistol and a melee weapon but not two melee weapons.

I wasn't about to quote your entire post because frankly, it was massive. To sum up - I understand what you're saying, I just disagree.
The entry is very messily put together and I don't agree with the way the limitations wind up - but to follow it as you suggest (point-by-point) doesn't make any sense either, as the limitations on point 3 would still have no effect.

Perhaps "simultaneously" was the wrong word to use. Instead, I will put it as: you cannot break any of the individual restrictions at any time, while following the instructions.
This approach works because each step talks about swapping a weapon - if you swap a weapon under 4 then go back to 3, the restrictions apply but you're not breaking them unless you attempt to swap one of the weapons mentioned while following it.

I fail to see which part of what I'm saying you disagree with. I have stated you can apply the points in any order (as quoted by commissar kel) and that yes that would mean you could apply 4 before 3 or 3 before 4 in which case you apply those restrictions in order.

Therefore the order you choose gives you different viable options because of the restrictions.

The other caveat I am saying is that one of those options is objectively better than the other so that is the one 99% use in practice.

Ah, I see - in which case I didn't understand after all! We're agreed then.