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2020/11/10 19:22:12
Subject: Tau Aircraft, Minimum Move, and Flying off the board edge while using strategic reserves
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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
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I'm testing an idea out, not sure if it works or if its worthwhile.
Lets say I've got a Viorla Sun Shark Bomber, I moved over an infantry unit and I'm near the board edge. Voirla have a strategem that allows you to move 6" after shooting. 6" is less than the minimum move of the aircraft (thus crash and burn), but lets say I'm also just an inch from the board edge. The strategic reserves rules let me go off the board and come back on the next turn...
Do I have something fun here (fly off the board every turn, bombing something each time), or am I selling myself snake oil?
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2020/11/10 19:30:22
Subject: Tau Aircraft, Minimum Move, and Flying off the board edge while using strategic reserves
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The minimum move for aircraft is defined in the "Minimum Move" section on the Aircraft page as the minimum amount the model must move in the Movement phase. If the stratagem is used in the Shooting phase, then the restriction on minimum move during the Movement phase shouldn't apply.
Even if it did apply, if your 6" move gets the model off the board and you're invoking strategic reserves you should be fine.
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2020/11/10 19:32:33
Subject: Tau Aircraft, Minimum Move, and Flying off the board edge while using strategic reserves
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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 Sazzlefrats wrote:I'm testing an idea out, not sure if it works or if its worthwhile.
Lets say I've got a Viorla Sun Shark Bomber, I moved over an infantry unit and I'm near the board edge. Voirla have a strategem that allows you to move 6" after shooting. 6" is less than the minimum move of the aircraft (thus crash and burn), but lets say I'm also just an inch from the board edge. The strategic reserves rules let me go off the board and come back on the next turn...
Do I have something fun here (fly off the board every turn, bombing something each time), or am I selling myself snake oil?
I am curious of 3 things.
1. does the stratagem say "as though it was the movement phase"? because min move only applies in the movement phase.
2. where on the rules does it say a unit is destroyed if it can't move its min move,,, i just see where it says it can't move less then its min ?
3. would this not be a case of a specific rule saying to move 6 and thus superseding the min move ?
Automatically Appended Next Post:  doctortom wrote:The minimum move for aircraft is defined in the "Minimum Move" section on the Aircraft page as the minimum amount the model must move in the Movement phase. If the stratagem is used in the Shooting phase, then the restriction on minimum move during the Movement phase shouldn't apply.
Even if it did apply, if your 6" move gets the model off the board and you're invoking strategic reserves you should be fine.
This seems logical to me... I just wonder if the "as though it was the movement phase" type wording would hinder this interpretation ?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/10 19:33:34
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2020/11/10 19:47:54
Subject: Re:Tau Aircraft, Minimum Move, and Flying off the board edge while using strategic reserves
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Dakka Veteran
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Vior'la allows infantry to shoot twice. You seem to be thinking of the Dal'yth Sept:
"Use this Stratagem at the start of your Shooting phase. Pick a Dal'yth Sept unit from your army. That unit may shoot and then immediately move up to 6" as if it were the Movement phase. They cannot Advance as part of this move."
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2020/11/10 19:48:27
Subject: Tau Aircraft, Minimum Move, and Flying off the board edge while using strategic reserves
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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
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 Type40 wrote:
I am curious of 3 things.
1. does the stratagem say "as though it was the movement phase"? because min move only applies in the movement phase. YES
2. where on the rules does it say a unit is destroyed if it can't move its min move,,, i just see where it says it can't move less then its min ? Pg66 3rd Paragraph
3. would this not be a case of a specific rule saying to move 6 and thus superseding the min move ? No Idea
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2020/11/10 22:11:40
Subject: Tau Aircraft, Minimum Move, and Flying off the board edge while using strategic reserves
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Sazzlefrats wrote: Type40 wrote:
I am curious of 3 things.
1. does the stratagem say "as though it was the movement phase"? because min move only applies in the movement phase. YES
2. where on the rules does it say a unit is destroyed if it can't move its min move,,, i just see where it says it can't move less then its min ? Pg66 3rd Paragraph
3. would this not be a case of a specific rule saying to move 6 and thus superseding the min move ? No Idea
1. So this is a good question ? does "as though it was the movement phase" mean it must move it's minimum movement ? ( btw, this would be mean if the ability triggers you can not move either 0" or 6" and are violating rules either way)
2. Ah, I see it now... ya, so if 1 is true AND "as though it was the movement phase" means min move is active,, would this not mean using the stratagem instantly blows you the vehicle RAW ?
3. Me neither XD .
I wonder if anyone else has any concrete evidence towards these concerns XD ?...
HWIP is that I wouldn't consider it the movement phase for the purposes of that 6 inches,,, but i get caught up on "as though it was the movement phase" lol XD.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/10 22:12:02
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2020/11/10 22:35:35
Subject: Tau Aircraft, Minimum Move, and Flying off the board edge while using strategic reserves
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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
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The issue I see is that, I could potentially have a flyer that can bomb strafe every single round plus unload all firepower, and there's no way to kill it if I move off the board with the stratagem.
Conceptually... oh baby... imagine this schenagins in a tournament.. turn 5 would be the only turn I wouldn't fly off the board.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/10 22:36:18
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2020/11/10 22:43:10
Subject: Tau Aircraft, Minimum Move, and Flying off the board edge while using strategic reserves
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I see the advantage... but also, does the fact that it would use the "strategic reserves" rule stop it from being deployed after the third battle round in matched play ?
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As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.
RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.
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2020/11/10 22:55:55
Subject: Tau Aircraft, Minimum Move, and Flying off the board edge while using strategic reserves
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Norn Queen
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Type40 wrote:I see the advantage... but also, does the fact that it would use the "strategic reserves" rule stop it from being deployed after the third battle round in matched play ?
No, because the Eternal War rule explicitly excludes such units. BRB, Page 282 wrote:Any Strategic Reserve or Reinforcement unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round counts as having been destroyed, as do any units embarked within them (this does not apply to units that are placed into Strategic Reserves after the first battle round has started).
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/10 22:56:17
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2020/11/10 23:07:25
Subject: Tau Aircraft, Minimum Move, and Flying off the board edge while using strategic reserves
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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
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Type40 wrote:I see the advantage... but also, does the fact that it would use the "strategic reserves" rule stop it from being deployed after the third battle round in matched play ?
I think that's an architecture from 8th edition. In 9th as far as I can see is "Any strategic reserves not set up by the end of the battle count as destroyed"
Even if this tactic is legal... when you place the model anywhere on the battle field 9" away from an enemy unit... is that considered flying over them for purposes of strafing them at the end of the movement phase?
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2020/11/10 23:12:42
Subject: Tau Aircraft, Minimum Move, and Flying off the board edge while using strategic reserves
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Sazzlefrats wrote: Type40 wrote:I see the advantage... but also, does the fact that it would use the "strategic reserves" rule stop it from being deployed after the third battle round in matched play ?
I think that's an architecture from 8th edition. In 9th as far as I can see is "Any strategic reserves not set up by the end of the battle count as destroyed"
in the Matched Play rules, both in the BRB and the GT pack it specifies units set up with the "strategic reserves" rule can not be deployed after BR 3. pg 6 3rd paragraph of CA GT.
Even if this tactic is legal... when you place the model anywhere on the battle field 9" away from an enemy unit... is that considered flying over them for purposes of strafing them at the end of the movement phase?
no, the model counts as moved when you deploy it, but it hasn't moved over anything it was "set up on the battlefield."
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As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.
RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.
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2020/11/10 23:14:01
Subject: Tau Aircraft, Minimum Move, and Flying off the board edge while using strategic reserves
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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
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Bacon... "this does not apply to units that are placed into Strategic Reserves after the first battle round has started"
This is what we are doing right? I'm using the 2020 Chapter Approved Grand Tournament book, which means strategic reserves is in effect. (And also the 2020 CA GT book doesn't seem to mention Eternal War at all.) My bad for not mentioning that in the first place. This would override the main rulebook I beleive.
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2020/11/10 23:14:26
Subject: Tau Aircraft, Minimum Move, and Flying off the board edge while using strategic reserves
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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 BaconCatBug wrote: Type40 wrote:I see the advantage... but also, does the fact that it would use the "strategic reserves" rule stop it from being deployed after the third battle round in matched play ?
No, because the Eternal War rule explicitly excludes such units. BRB, Page 282 wrote:Any Strategic Reserve or Reinforcement unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round counts as having been destroyed, as do any units embarked within them (this does not apply to units that are placed into Strategic Reserves after the first battle round has started).
Ah !
thanks for pointing this out !
Cool. I totally missed that. Automatically Appended Next Post: Sazzlefrats wrote:Bacon... "this does not apply to units that are placed into Strategic Reserves after the first battle round has started"
This is what we are doing right? I'm using the 2020 Chapter Approved Grand Tournament book, which means strategic reserves is in effect. (And also the 2020 CA GT book doesn't seem to mention Eternal War at all.) My bad for not mentioning that in the first place. This would override the main rulebook I beleive.
So the only question left is, does "as though it was the movement phase" mean that the min move restricts the 6inch movement ...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/10 23:16:28
As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.
RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.
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2020/11/10 23:34:40
Subject: Tau Aircraft, Minimum Move, and Flying off the board edge while using strategic reserves
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Type40 wrote:So the only question left is, does "as though it was the movement phase" mean that the min move restricts the 6inch movement ...
No, because the 6 inch move is the more specific rule, and would take precedence over the minimum move rule.
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0800/07/21 01:41:38
Subject: Tau Aircraft, Minimum Move, and Flying off the board edge while using strategic reserves
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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 DeathReaper wrote: Type40 wrote:So the only question left is, does "as though it was the movement phase" mean that the min move restricts the 6inch movement ...
No, because the 6 inch move is the more specific rule, and would take precedence over the minimum move rule.
I thought so, sometimes I have trouble figuring out what counts as more specific.
Alright, so I think we can conclude this then,
You can move the 6" and therefor you can put your flyer into SR... though keep in mind you can't setup on the battlefield and then move for any reason other then charges, pile ins and consolidates... so you wont be spamming this strategy back to back every turn. Still a solid idea  .
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As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.
RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.
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2020/11/11 00:02:21
Subject: Tau Aircraft, Minimum Move, and Flying off the board edge while using strategic reserves
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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
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You are right! Shoot. Its flawed, but this does have it strafing 4x in a game vs 2x max
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2020/11/11 00:04:32
Subject: Tau Aircraft, Minimum Move, and Flying off the board edge while using strategic reserves
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Sazzlefrats wrote:You are right! Shoot. Its flawed, but this does have it strafing 4x in a game vs 2x max
Still... In a game you'll have the opportunity to potentially shoot with it 5 rounds and complete protection from return fire 2 full rounds.
Might not be AS powerful as you thought,,, but still a neat little strategy.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/11 00:04:57
As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.
RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.
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2020/11/11 00:21:10
Subject: Re:Tau Aircraft, Minimum Move, and Flying off the board edge while using strategic reserves
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Lieutenant General
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From the Codex: T'au Empire FAQ v1.1
*Page 130 – Strike and Fade
Change the second sentence to read:
‘Pick a DAL'YTH SEPT unit from your army (excluding AIRCRAFT).’
Page 360 of the Core Rules give both the AX3 Razorshark and AX39 Sun Shark the AIRCRAFT keyword.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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2020/11/11 00:22:28
Subject: Re:Tau Aircraft, Minimum Move, and Flying off the board edge while using strategic reserves
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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 Ghaz wrote:From the Codex: T'au Empire FAQ v1.1
*Page 130 – Strike and Fade
Change the second sentence to read:
‘Pick a DAL'YTH SEPT unit from your army (excluding AIRCRAFT).’
Page 360 of the Core Rules give both the AX3 Razorshark and AX39 Sun Shark the AIRCRAFT keyword.
This settles it XD . Thanks for pointing this out.
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As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.
RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.
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