Codex:Death Guard pre-orders on January 16th (Jan16th: Preorders up, full leak, reviews)

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**PoorGravitasHandling**

So glad to see that both fething rumor threads are full of “Well, Actually Sir”.

**Jidmah**

At least this one has all the information compiled in the first post

**Slayer-Fan123**

Marshal Loss wrote:
The first Daemon Engine ever introduced to mainline 40k started off with WS2 & BS4, so I'm not sure why some folks are so heavily invested in them hitting on a 4+/4+, or why there's some funky mental gymnastics going on arguing that "there's no lore to support them being more accurate than a guardsman" when we're stuck using a D6 system to hit with minimal granularity. Ideally there would be a space to fill between a guardsman's accuracy and the abilities of a transhuman super soldier, but there isn't. Saying that they "aren't used to their confinement" makes little sense when they might be stuck in their prisons for literally thousands of years, or longer, and being able to more effectively channel their abilities is the only pathway for them to gain some small measure of respite.

I mean, go through any CSM codex and look for a quote saying that Daemon Engines can't hit things properly without looking at a statline. You won't find one.

If Fenrisian Wolves can hit on a 3+, or a Chaos Dreadnought driven insane by millennia of captivity can hit on a 3+, there's no good reason to not give Daemon Engines 3+/3+. People are just used to seeing them at 4+/4+ and are twisting the lore to suit their interpretation when GW clearly disagrees. Best get used to the new reality.

I don't think Ferisian Wolves should hit on a 3+ either. Whats your point? Some other units that shouldn't hit on a 3+ do so, and therefore we make Daemon Engines do the same?

**Kirasu**

GW clearly has never understood how "stride" works and why a dreadnought would move faster than a guardsman due to how long its legs are. If they cant wrap their heads around that, then a lot of other topics will never be understood either!

I mean back during 3rd Ed the Salamanders were SLOWER because they lived on high gravity world, yet most people know they would then move FASTER on normal worlds :p

**Dryaktylus**

Marshal Loss wrote:
The first Daemon Engine ever introduced to mainline 40k started off with WS2 & BS4

Hum, wasn't that the Blood Slaughterer? It had WS4/BS4, at least in the Vehicle Manual.

**Dudeface**

Dryaktylus wrote:
Marshal Loss wrote:
The first Daemon Engine ever introduced to mainline 40k started off with WS2 & BS4

Hum, wasn't that the Blood Slaughterer? It had WS4/BS4, at least in the Vehicle Manual.

The first with a model in a codex was the defiler in 3rd ed, which as martial loss points out hit on a 5 in melee and 3 at range.

Daemonic possession was also added as an upgrade to non-transport vehicles at this point, which from 4th onwards reduced the BS of the tank to hit on 4's (to represent the daemon struggling to function in the material world) in return for a boost in durability.

**Sasori**

I really love the idea of Daemon Engines going to WS/BS3 I expect a bit of a points cost increase on some, but It will be nice for a bunch of the previously wimpy daemon engines to be threatening now.

**porkuslime**

Sasori wrote:
I really love the idea of Daemon Engines going to WS/BS3 I expect a bit of a points cost increase on some, but It will be nice for a bunch of the previously wimpy daemon engines to be threatening now.

I totally agree.. having demon engines "feel" like demonic entities matters for my fluff diet.

**Castozor**

Man when I saw this thread went to 3 pages overnight I assumed we just had a lot more DG fans than I thought. Turns out it is 2 pages of back and forth over whether or not BS/WS 3+ is fluffy on daemon engines. Take it to the background forum lads.
I'll just say I'll applaud 3+ just because it normalizes everything in my list to hit the same. Not a big issue when it doesn't, but it's just easier for me when it does. Especially since DG never got access to Demon Forged in the first place.

**Semper**

I'm just going to throw an assumption in like every one else. Perhaps the WS/BS adjustment is because they'll no longer be core and rather than make Chaos players pay for Daemonforge every turn (I expect the strat to stay), they're just throwing a bone another way because DE are our core vehicles, so for them to be permanent 4+ without access to re-rolls outside of a strat (and considering the new ease of accessing -1 to hit) would be pretty darn rough considering their current volume of attacks/damage output. Is there a more eloquent solution that could fit with fluff? Probably, there usually is. Is this an easy and cheerful way to solve it? Yeah. It's just another example of D6's limitations.

Back to Death Guard though. The present changes look promising if they hold up.

**PoorGravitasHandling**

An eagle eyed redditor found the following:

https://i.redd.it/5wqtx8cjgt161.jpg

While Hateful Assault may be something spelled out in the beginning of the book and applying to all data sheets, it isn’t mentioned here now.

Nurgle’s Gift is applying to things outside the Lord of Contagion (if that’s even the same rule in the new codex).

Disgusting Resiliency may be FAQd across all armies simultaneously as “Refer to Codex Death Guard” if they do end up changing it as rumored.

**Grot 6**

Pretty underwhelming as a whole. Not even seeing a reason for a 9th edition for this , one of the first armies' they came out for 8th- The whole wait for that codex was for nothing.

**Marshal Loss**

At least we'll have all of our rules consolidated into a single codex for at least a few weeks!

**EightFoldPath**

LMAO, just reading part of the Imperial Armour Compemdium entry for Death Guard....

"If your army is Battle-forged, then when you include such a unit in an DEATH GUARD Detachment your army, you must nominate which shield host..."

Hang on, did DG team up with the Custodes?

Anyway, do we think DG will be getting:

a) Legion ability on all models now, not just INFANTRY and HELBRUTE units?

b) Said Legion ability will be useful?

c) Some sort of doctrines style bonus for going pure DG?

**PoorGravitasHandling**

I’m still of the opinion that the DG release will be incredibly half-assed based on the radio silence from GW on something that should be coming out in two or three weeks.

Maybe this week or next will prove me wrong but I think a two model (termie lord and terrain) release with a repackaging of the zombies and ETB kits is all we get.

Plus the day one DLC rules in the campaign book, assuming those aren’t explicitly narrative only.

**AngryAngel80**

Oh boy how much I'll love needing two books off the bat for DG. Can't wait, but I'll just hope the rules are all good in the codex and the campaign is just narrative. I doubt that to be the case though as why miss a chance to force some bloat.

I don't mind if the model release is light so long as the kits we have feel viable. I'm hopefully optimistic, but I know what that sets me up for.

**Kanluwen**

If the campaign book's "rules" are what I'm thinking they are? It's narrative/open play only stuff.

Also, it's unusual for us to have info more than two weeks out on a release.

**AngryAngel80**

Well I got some fingers and toes crossed that it'll be just narrative and open play stuff.

**Abaddon303**

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
An eagle eyed redditor found the following:

https://i.redd.it/5wqtx8cjgt161.jpg

While Hateful Assault may be something spelled out in the beginning of the book and applying to all data sheets, it isn’t mentioned here now.

Nurgle’s Gift is applying to things outside the Lord of Contagion (if that’s even the same rule in the new codex).

Disgusting Resiliency may be FAQd across all armies simultaneously as “Refer to Codex Death Guard” if they do end up changing it as rumored.

I suspect in the new book Nurgle's gift maybe a catch all rule like the loyalist angels of death rule that will encompass hateful assault, bolter discipline and any doctrine type abilities we might get.

The existing lord of contagion Nurgle's gift mortal wound output rule will probably go or be renamed. Greater blight drone dishing out a mortal wound aura seems a bit odd...

**Marshal Loss**

Absolutely nothing indicates that the campaign book's rules content will be purely for narrative or open play, that would be extremely out of character for GW. Far safer to assume that it's a proper supplement at this stage.

**porkuslime**

Any ideas what a Greater Blight Drone might be?

I just got around to building 3 regular Foetids, and am mentally hoping I did not build in vain..

**Marshal Loss**

porkuslime wrote:
Any ideas what a Greater Blight Drone might be?

I just got around to building 3 regular Foetids, and am mentally hoping I did not build in vain..

It's just this, the old FW model from the Vraks days

**Sotahullu**

Marshal Loss wrote:
porkuslime wrote:
Any ideas what a Greater Blight Drone might be?

I just got around to building 3 regular Foetids, and am mentally hoping I did not build in vain..

It's just this, the old FW model from the Vraks days

Wait, when they added "Greater" on it?

**porkuslime**

Marshal Loss wrote:
porkuslime wrote:
Any ideas what a Greater Blight Drone might be?

I just got around to building 3 regular Foetids, and am mentally hoping I did not build in vain..

It's just this, the old FW model from the Vraks days

When did Forge World products make it into a Codex? Thought the rules for their stuff was only in their books?

**Marshal Loss**

Sotahullu wrote:
Marshal Loss wrote:
porkuslime wrote:
Any ideas what a Greater Blight Drone might be?

I just got around to building 3 regular Foetids, and am mentally hoping I did not build in vain..

It's just this, the old FW model from the Vraks days

Wait, when they added "Greater" on it?

When 8th edition first came out I think (so 2017), in the FW Index - presumably to differentiate it from FBDs

**Platuan4th**

porkuslime wrote:
Marshal Loss wrote:
porkuslime wrote:
Any ideas what a Greater Blight Drone might be?

I just got around to building 3 regular Foetids, and am mentally hoping I did not build in vain..

It's just this, the old FW model from the Vraks days

When did Forge World products make it into a Codex? Thought the rules for their stuff was only in their books?

That picture is from the Imperial Armour Compendium that just came out not the Codex.

**H.B.M.C.**

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
Disgusting Resiliency may be FAQd across all armies simultaneously as “Refer to Codex Death Guard” if they do end up changing it as rumored.

They won't make other factions refer to a different Codex to get their rules.

**vaklor4**

I'm kind of sad that demon engines are losing 4+, but I entirely understand why if they lose most of their ability to get rerolls.

**Marshal Loss**

Looks like we won't be up for preorder until the 12th.

**alextroy**

I'm not surprised. GW doesn't tend to back to back releases like this. They either happen together or a couple weeks apart.