Faceless commander and warptime - scrambled operatives vs vexilla teleport homer

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**avedominusnox**

The question is, if I use the faceless commander to teleport my Daemon prince in the end of my movement phase can I warptime him in the psychic phase? Also the alpha legion scrambled operatives vs custodes stratagem what actually happens?

**BaconCatBug**

avedominusnox wrote:
The question is, if I use the faceless commander to teleport my Daemon prince in the end of my movement phase can I warptime him in the psychic phase? Also the alpha legion scrambled operatives vs custodes stratagem what actually happens?

1) No. As per the Rare Rules appendix for "Repositioned and Replacement Units"

Core Book, Page 363 wrote: If a rule causes a unit to be removed from the battlefield and subsequently set back up, the following rules apply to it:
[...]
3. The unit cannot make a Normal Move, Advance, Fall Back or Remain Stationary that turn for any reason.

So you cannot use Warptime, since it causes the unit to "move as if it were its Movement phase", which would entail making a "Normal Move, Advance, Fall Back or Remain Stationary" action.

2) Since you didn't specify what stratagem you are talking about, I am going to assume you are asking about "From Golden Light They Come". You have two rules in effect simultaneously, one rule is saying you must set up "more than 9" away from any enemy models" and one rule saying you must set up "more than 12" away from ALPHA LEGION units from your army, rather than 9"." You must follow all rules without breaking any, which means you will have to set up your Custodes both 9" away from any enemy models and 12" away from ALPHA LEGION units. I am blind. Please see my subsequent post.

**xerxeskingofking**

BaconCatBug wrote:
avedominusnox wrote:
The question is, if I use the faceless commander to teleport my Daemon prince in the end of my movement phase can I warptime him in the psychic phase? Also the alpha legion scrambled operatives vs custodes stratagem what actually happens?

1) No. As per the Rare Rules appendix for "Repositioned and Replacement Units"
Core Book, Page 363 wrote: If a rule causes a unit to be removed from the battlefield and subsequently set back up, the following rules apply to it:
[...]
3. The unit cannot make a Normal Move, Advance, Fall Back or Remain Stationary that turn for any reason.
So you cannot use Warptime, since it causes the unit to "move as if it were its Movement phase", which would entail making a "Normal Move, Advance, Fall Back or Remain Stationary" action.

2) Since you didn't specify what stratagem you are talking about, I am going to assume you are asking about "From Golden Light They Come". You have two rules in effect simultaneously, one rule is saying you must set up "more than 9" away from any enemy models" and one rule saying you must set up "more than 12" away from ALPHA LEGION units from your army, rather than 9"." You must follow all rules without breaking any, which means you will have to set up your Custodies both 9" away from any enemy models and 12" away from ALPHA LEGION units.

He did specify, in the thread title he refers to the "vexilia teleport homer" ability, which has the rules text
"Use this strat at the end of your Movment Phase. when you set up a teleporting Adeptus Custodes unit at the end of the phase, you can set it up wholly within 6" of a friendly vexilus Praetor (other that one that set up this turn). and more than 3" form enemy models. any models that cannot be set up this way are destroyed"

therefore, the rules question is the interaction between "set up close to me, and closer than normal" vs "must set up further away". now, unless their "rules priority" rule that lets the teleport homer override the alpha legion "stay away" rule, then i;d guess your right, they must both be within 6" of the vexilla, more than 3" form any enemy, and also more than 12" form any enemy ALPHA LEGION.

unless a case can be made the vexllia shortcuts the AL rule as that one says "12 inches, instead of 9 inches", but units using the vexillia dont have to set up 9 inches away, only 3 inches away, which i guess is the question the OP was asking.

**BaconCatBug**

Ok, I missed that, my mistake. No idea how. Apologies.

In this case you have two rules in effect simultaneously, one rule is saying you must set up "more than 3" away from any enemy models" and one rule saying you must set up "more than 12" away from ALPHA LEGION units from your army, rather than 9"."

Because the Alpha Legion rule says "rather than 9"", it doesn't actually apply to the vexilia teleport homer stratagem, so it has no affect on it, and you can deploy your Custodes unit "within 6" of a friendly vexilus Praetor (other that one that set up this turn). and more than 3" form enemy models." Others will disagree that the "rather than 9"" doesn't apply for some reason, and will insist that you still have to deploy more than 12" from any ALPHA LEGION units.

**alextroy**

xerxeskingofking wrote:
He did specify, in the thread title he refers to the "vexilia teleport homer" ability, which has the rules text
"Use this strat at the end of your Movment Phase. when you set up a teleporting Adeptus Custodes unit at the end of the phase, you can set it up wholly within 6" of a friendly vexilus Praetor (other that one that set up this turn). and more than 3" form enemy models. any models that cannot be set up this way are destroyed"

therefore, the rules question is the interaction between "set up close to me, and closer than normal" vs "must set up further away". now, unless their "rules priority" rule that lets the teleport homer override the alpha legion "stay away" rule, then i;d guess your right, they must both be within 6" of the vexilla, more than 3" form any enemy, and also more than 12" form any enemy ALPHA LEGION.

unless a case can be made the vexllia shortcuts the AL rule as that one says "12 inches, instead of 9 inches", but units using the vexillia dont have to set up 9 inches away, only 3 inches away, which i guess is the question the OP was asking.

There is a very strong case that since the AL rules states "12 inches, instead of 9 inches" that there is no impact at all to the Vexilla Teleport Homer. 9" is never stated in the rule, you can't replace 9" with 12". Therefore, you use only the limitations under Vexilla Teleport Homer.

You can compare that to SM Inflitrators Omni-scramblers (Enemy units that are set up on the battlefield as reinforcements cannot be set up within 12" of this unit) that flatly doesn't allow setup within 12" of the unit. Here, you have a case of needing to abide by both rules.

**p5freak**

BaconCatBug wrote:

Because the Alpha Legion rule says "rather than 9"", it doesn't actually apply to the vexilia teleport homer stratagem, so it has no affect on it, and you can deploy your Custodes unit "within 6" of a friendly vexilus Praetor (other that one that set up this turn). and more than 3" form enemy models." Others will disagree that the "rather than 9"" doesn't apply for some reason, and will insist that you still have to deploy more than 12" from any ALPHA LEGION units.

AL also says must be set up more than 12" away. When there are multiple rules in effect you must follow all rules, your words BCB. In that case you must set up more than 3" away from enemy models and more than 12" away from enemy models.

**BaconCatBug**

p5freak wrote:
When there are multiple rules in effect you must follow all rules, your words BCB. In that case you must set up more than 3" away from enemy models and more than 12" away from enemy models.

The Alpha Legion rule is NOT in effect, because the rule doesn't have a 9" rule to replace.

Analogy: You want to bring in a 1L drink to a concert. Your friend wants to bring in a 2L drink. The concert has a rule saying "You must bring in a 0.5L drink, rather than a 2L drink." You get to keep your 1L drink because it's not 2L, while your friend has to bring in a 0.5L drink rather than a 2L drink.

If you do pretend that "rather than 9"" can somehow replace a 3" bubble rule, yes, you still need to be more than 3" from Enemy Models and 12" from ALPHA LEGION units. But there is no 9" bubble for the 12" bubble to be "rather than", so it doesn't apply.

**alextroy**

BaconCatBug wrote:
Analogy: You want to bring in a 1L drink to a concert. Your friend wants to bring in a 2L drink. The concert has a rule saying "You must bring in a 0.5L drink, rather than a 2L drink." You get to keep your 1L drink because it's not 2L, while your friend has to bring in a 0.5L drink rather than a 2L drink.

You should really stop writing analogies, you are terrible at it

A better one would be: your opponent must wear yellow instead of red, but he is wearing blue.

**DeathReaper**

BaconCatBug wrote:
p5freak wrote:
When there are multiple rules in effect you must follow all rules, your words BCB. In that case you must set up more than 3" away from enemy models and more than 12" away from enemy models.
The Alpha Legion rule is NOT in effect, because the rule doesn't have a 9" rule to replace.

That is not quite how the rules work. There is no replacement going on.

The only reason it says "rather than 9(inches)" is because the majority of things that can [Deep Strike] do so by setting up more than 9 inches away. That is all it is referring to.

**alextroy**

Sorry. The words are in the rule and therefore are part of the rule.

**DeathReaper**

alextroy wrote:
Sorry. The words are in the rule and therefore are part of the rule.

Yea, why wouldn't they be? Not sure what your point is though.

**avedominusnox**

Ok the thing with warptime is pretty clear. The other one though is still weird. I guess there is no clear answer to what happens between the two stratagems.