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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
I think the box art is pretty revealing. Seems like they did purposefully redesign Lelith after all. She is huge:

You do know that Eldar and Dark Eldar are like 7 feet tall right? They look gen 1 SM in the eye. I do think it's hilarious that a SoB is holding her arm though. If their book strength is real, then Lelith should be able to literally rip her in half.

Yeah I do know that. I also know they aren't twice as wide as a sister in power armour, which is what I was referring to. Seriously, look at those shoulders - she's a straight triangle.

 BertBert wrote:
I think the box art is pretty revealing. Seems like they did purposefully redesign Lelith after all. She is huge:

Hahahahahahahaha, that box art is fething hilarious. I hope the next time they do some art of "The Best Melee Duellist Evar #23282371" space marine character they make art of him getting absolutely styled on by a Skitarii Prime who doesn't even have a melee weapon.

Seriously? This is their box art for "Lelith, the duellist who never gets a single scratch on her"? They show her in a wrist-lock like a fifth grader getting bullied at lunch?

I mean at least it's true to her fething stats, she does an average of like 1.1 wounds to tactical marines in melee and then gets stomped fething flat.

Also keep in mind, time has passed since Lelith declared herself to be free of drugs and such, and we don't know what type of regimins she put herself through.

It may not be drugs, but Astartes and/or Ork souls and/or hormones (which aren't technically drugs) which have given her this extra girth over the years.

As for beauty, that's in the eye of the beholder. Not everyone is after the anorexic or lithe athletic look.

the_scotsman wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
I think the box art is pretty revealing. Seems like they did purposefully redesign Lelith after all. She is huge:

Hahahahahahahaha, that box art is fething hilarious. I hope the next time they do some art of "The Best Melee Duellist Evar #23282371" space marine character they make art of him getting absolutely styled on by a Skitarii Prime who doesn't even have a melee weapon.

Seriously? This is their box art for "Lelith, the duellist who never gets a single scratch on her"? They show her in a wrist-lock like a fifth grader getting bullied at lunch?

I mean at least it's true to her fething stats, she does an average of like 1.1 wounds to tactical marines in melee and then gets stomped fething flat.

Cover art always has to show the imperium's forces holding their own if not completely winning.

For decades 40k has established the eldar as being very slender, but with fine muscle tone. But hey, if it ain't broken gw will retcon it anyway.

(And when one of you gits turns that last line into his sig i want it to be quoted from me.)

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
I think the box art is pretty revealing. Seems like they did purposefully redesign Lelith after all. She is huge:

You do know that Eldar and Dark Eldar are like 7 feet tall right? They look gen 1 SM in the eye. I do think it's hilarious that a SoB is holding her arm though. If their book strength is real, then Lelith should be able to literally rip her in half.

They're tall, but also thin and long-limbed. Lelith in particular is (was? now, if there's a retcon) supposed to be extremely lithe and elegant. Here's a few highlights from the 8th edition codex:

Lelith is grace embodied, her movement hypnotic, sensual and spell binding

flawless form and supernatural human dexterity

Nobody can look at the model or that art and take that impression away. She looks like a female rambo (which is fine in the abstract, but absolutely does not fit the character as she previously was described).

 BertBert wrote:
I think the box art is pretty revealing. Seems like they did purposefully redesign Lelith after all. She is huge:

How is she supposed to have got into that position?

It looks like she started off behind the Sister, but has somehow managed to completely miss her while moving very slowly (judging by the lack of movement in the hair). Her right arm is presumably moving upwards, so the Sister has grabbed it on top, while moving in a lunge and looking past Lelith?

Old Hesperax for me.

For a start...did they just copy and paste the feet from the new Sons of Behemat release and shove them on the new model?

Not a fan...as you may have gathered.

But, if you like the new itteration you go for it me dude.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
I think the box art is pretty revealing. Seems like they did purposefully redesign Lelith after all. She is huge:

How is she supposed to have got into that position?

It looks like she started off behind the Sister, but has somehow managed to completely miss her while moving very slowly (judging by the lack of movement in the hair). Her right arm is presumably moving upwards, so the Sister has grabbed it on top, while moving in a lunge and looking past Lelith?

I see it as Lelith swinging down with her right arm. The Sister dodged the swing and grabbed the arm. That knife looks like a curved single edged knife, so in order to cut it would have to be a downward swing.

Other than them both being S3 on the table top, there is no way the Sister should be able to lock down Lelith's arm. She's as strong as a space marine/ork in the lore, and the sister's arms aren't using the power armor, so she likely dies in the next instant after this one.

Iracundus wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
I think the box art is pretty revealing. Seems like they did purposefully redesign Lelith after all. She is huge:

How is she supposed to have got into that position?

It looks like she started off behind the Sister, but has somehow managed to completely miss her while moving very slowly (judging by the lack of movement in the hair). Her right arm is presumably moving upwards, so the Sister has grabbed it on top, while moving in a lunge and looking past Lelith?

I see it as Lelith swinging down with her right arm. The Sister dodged the swing and grabbed the arm. That knife looks like a curved single edged knife, so in order to cut it would have to be a downward swing.

If Lelith is moving from top left towards the bottom right of the image in a downward swing though, shouldn't her hair be flowing in the opposite direction?

 Lord Damocles wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
I think the box art is pretty revealing. Seems like they did purposefully redesign Lelith after all. She is huge:

How is she supposed to have got into that position?

It looks like she started off behind the Sister, but has somehow managed to completely miss her while moving very slowly (judging by the lack of movement in the hair). Her right arm is presumably moving upwards, so the Sister has grabbed it on top, while moving in a lunge and looking past Lelith?

I see it as Lelith swinging down with her right arm. The Sister dodged the swing and grabbed the arm. That knife looks like a curved single edged knife, so in order to cut it would have to be a downward swing.

If Lelith is moving from top left towards the bottom right of the image in a downward swing though, shouldn't her hair be flowing in the opposite direction?

Looks like she was turning her upper body from right to left as she swung, from looking at the hair.

I personally like the older model. Maybe a 360 view of the new one would change that because the picture looks weird. Also I know 'Eavy Metal paint jobs look awful when it comes to skin.

But holy Gork and Mork the amount of "You only like the old one because you're a creepy neckbeard who wants to drool over women" is silly, and quite frankly a little sad. Don't straw man people. There is nothing wrong with people liking the style of wych elves. Heck, Age of Sigmar has an entire army of it and people love that, but for some reason 40k fans are acting like the actual inquisition.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
and the sister's arms aren't using the power armor

Yeah, and the Sisters lifting heavy bolters and multi meltas like they were made out of paper or firing storm bolters one handed must be just collective imagination or something

 BaconCatBug wrote:
There is a difference between "needless" sexualisation and sexualisation as part of the character and lore of a fictional character.

Lelith very much fits into the latter, since one of the major aspects of her character was her beauty, being an un-scarred Succubus with fighting prowess in the top percentage of Rattata arena fighters. "Beware of an old man in a profession where men usually die young" and all that. I appreciate that GW are stuck between a rock and a hard place, but not sticking to their guns is going to just piss off everyone, since the ones clamouring for GW to capitulate won't ever be happy.

Now, whether this was a conscious decision, a limitation of injection moulding technology, or simply because a change of corporate culture has caused the over-all talent level to drop with their sculptors, we'll never know.

I think what is most disturbing to me of the " She's sexualized reee ! " comments end up being why is that always a bad thing ? Do some people not know people sexualize themselves because they want to ? Men and women if they are good looking, and know it, they often choose to flaunt it, use it as a tool as much as a weapon or their mind. So I always wondered why anyone cared that this vain woman, from an amazingly vain culture, is sexualized and deadly and not shamed of that or off put ? Why would she be ? You step to her, she'll kill you before you realize you made a mistake. They live in an entirely pleasure driven culture to the extreme so of course if she was hot she'd be over the top hot or sexual in it and it wouldn't raise any brows at all there.

If the model was made chunky with a worse face to try and remove that somewhat from the model, that would be super sad. People shouldn't need to be ashamed of being or feeling sexy nor should it be stripped from models that it's well in character for. That would be like making a Helen of Troy figure and making her dumpy with a plain face and totally modest. It just doesn't make any sense and being what you are is not nor has ever been a bad thing. We are all only here because someone found someone else sexy and that may have been by design and aim from both sides.

So if that is why the model is off, that is sad, if its just a limitation with the mold process I guess that's unavoidable but the model feels like a downgrade in looks with an upgrade in material used at least.

 BertBert wrote:
I think the box art is pretty revealing. Seems like they did purposefully redesign Lelith after all. She is huge:

Looking at that picture, I'd swear "Lelith" was originally a male Wych. It seriously looks like there was a last-minute change of plan, and the solution was to just badly photoshop a different head onto the clearly male body.

Hence why it looks like her neck has just snapped.

 vipoid wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
I think the box art is pretty revealing. Seems like they did purposefully redesign Lelith after all. She is huge:

Looking at that picture, I'd swear "Lelith" was originally a male Wych. It seriously looks like there was a last-minute change of plan, and the solution was to just badly photoshop a different head onto the clearly male body.

Hence why it looks like her neck has just snapped.

BY GEORGE I THINK HE'S GOT IT!!!

the_scotsman wrote:

Hahahahahahahaha, that box art is fething hilarious. I hope the next time they do some art of "The Best Melee Duellist Evar #23282371" space marine character they make art of him getting absolutely styled on by a Skitarii Prime who doesn't even have a melee weapon.

Seriously? This is their box art for "Lelith, the duellist who never gets a single scratch on her"? They show her in a wrist-lock like a fifth grader getting bullied at lunch?

I mean at least it's true to her fething stats, she does an average of like 1.1 wounds to tactical marines in melee and then gets stomped fething flat.

They already did, "The Best Melee Duelist Evar" art:

That picture is pretty funny, truth be told.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Other than them both being S3 on the table top, there is no way the Sister should be able to lock down Lelith's arm. She's as strong as a space marine/ork in the lore, and the sister's arms aren't using the power armor, so she likely dies in the next instant after this one.

I'm pretty sure there is literally zero fluff that states Lelith is as strong as a Space Marine, or even an Ork Boy.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Other than them both being S3 on the table top, there is no way the Sister should be able to lock down Lelith's arm. She's as strong as a space marine/ork in the lore, and the sister's arms aren't using the power armor, so she likely dies in the next instant after this one.

I'm pretty sure there is literally zero fluff that states Lelith is as strong as a Space Marine, or even an Ork Boy.

yeah, shes all about precision strikes and speed, not brute force

Yea that art is not of Lelith, no way

I like the old one more. The face and the overdone jumping off a rock thing are what really bother me with the new model.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
I think the box art is pretty revealing. Seems like they did purposefully redesign Lelith after all. She is huge:

You do know that Eldar and Dark Eldar are like 7 feet tall right? They look gen 1 SM in the eye. I do think it's hilarious that a SoB is holding her arm though. If their book strength is real, then Lelith should be able to literally rip her in half.

you mean the sister of battle in strength enhancing power armor? that sister of battle?

 vipoid wrote:


Looking at that picture, I'd swear "Lelith" was originally a male Wych. It seriously looks like there was a last-minute change of plan, and the solution was to just badly photoshop a different head onto the clearly male body.

Hence why it looks like her neck has just snapped.

As far as the artwork is concerned, this might just be it. I can't imagine the sculpt having been shoehorned in, though. I'd like to think designing a character takes months, not to mention the time to get it into production.
Maybe some weird middle ground where Lelith was already in the pipeline but meant to be a single release down the line, and they just bundled her into this box to add some value to it.

 BertBert wrote:

 vipoid wrote:


Looking at that picture, I'd swear "Lelith" was originally a male Wych. It seriously looks like there was a last-minute change of plan, and the solution was to just badly photoshop a different head onto the clearly male body.

Hence why it looks like her neck has just snapped.

As far as the artwork is concerned, this might just be it. I can't imagine the sculpt having been shoehorned in, though. I'd like to think designing a character takes months, not to mention the time to get it into production.
Maybe some weird middle ground where Lelith was already in the pipeline but meant to be a single release down the line, and they just bundled her into this box to add some value to it.

No, this is the same exact sales tactic they used with new jain and drazar. The box is holding the new character hostage, they won't release them as a standalone kit and give you the PRIVILEGE of paying 35$ for them until the box has been the sole way to get them for 3-4 months.

Basically, if a scalper buys the box to split it: GW wins, they basically sold a copy to a store but they didn't have to give a retail discount.

If a player buys the box to use it: GW Wins, they sold a bunch of units they wouldn't otherwise sold and most importantly every extra character they sell is a bump up on a low sales volume piece.

Looks wise?
I prefer the previous version.
Just looked far more gladiatorial and less “generic DE with tall hair”

From a modelling perspective though, the previous one was a pain.
Small metal joins made pinning it an irritating job and even then, it wasn’t an insanely strong join.
The finecast version was better to assemble, but it’s finecast, I needn’t say much more on that.

Old, pretty easily.

- 2 Feet on the base
- Less ridiculous Hair
- Better face

I really hate leaping poses with 1 foot connecting. The old pose was great

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:


They already did, "The Best Melee Duelist Evar" art:

That should be immortalised in a store exclusive model. Absolute classic!

I like to think the Pathfinder has just dropped Nob Strength Acid and is like "Woah, I have hands."

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I like to think the Pathfinder has just dropped Nob Strength Acid and is like "Woah, I have hands."

"Oh no, he's got my gun! Wait, it's okay, I'll just burn his hand away with my laser vision!"