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That, then add in FFG’s known supply issues.

Whilst the upgrade sets covered a lot of stuff (certainly a superior option to releasing them ship by ship), that’s bugger all use if you can’t find them in stock.

the_scotsman wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
Why did 2.0 stall X-Wing so much? Were the rules not well received?

The real question is, why do people who arent giant mega-empires keep trying to do '2nd edition' resets?

I've literally probably played 10-15 games over the years that were all but obliterated by a new edition of the rules/resetting of the model range.

Monsterpocalypse, Axis and Allies Minis, Mage Knight, Xwing, WMH (3.0 rather than 2.0 I guess, but still), Flames of War (4th edition)

Pretty much any game system smaller than DnD/40k, tell people "hey, youre gonna have to rebuy all your stuff!" and 90% of your players just go "nope" and leave.

Because the X-wing rules were becoming a bloated mess? And the appeal of the game had always been concise, streamlined rules.

IMO it's too early to declare X-wing dead, 2.0 didn't have much time before the pandemic hit for anything to really pan out. I think the question will be whether players return after it's over, but the same is going to be true for a lot of games.

the_scotsman wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
Why did 2.0 stall X-Wing so much? Were the rules not well received?

The real question is, why do people who arent giant mega-empires keep trying to do '2nd edition' resets?

because unless you are GW, another Edition means "improvment" and re-print of the rules including FAQ/Errata and balance fixes
but because it works for GW that every Edition means "new game" other try this as well and fail

for X-Wing, the 2nd Edi was necessary as there were big problems in balance and the rules that could only be solved with a reset
in this case the main problem was the buisness model, as having everything on unit cards means that people need to buy new cards each time there are changes

the big drop in players was more the result of problems that were there prior the change, and for most people it was a trigger event and they took the chance to leave

it was more that X-Wing 2.0 happend to late to prevent something
making rules/points changes 2 years earlier with printable replacements, selling card packs instead of adding fixes for old units with new ships
and drop updated rules with point changes in smaller upgrade sets instead of one big per faction and the outcome would have been different

X-Wing was in desperate need of a 2.0 at the time. Honestly, I think the bigger fault was not recognizing this as doing a 2.0 a year or two sooner.

MonPoc is a totally different story. It was dead for the better part of a decade and relaunched with no real existing product to "port".

Both Warmachine and X-Wing ran into similar problems though. They kept growing more and more bloated, finding a lot of success in a treadmill that retained a strong playerbase, but increasingly raised the barrier of entry to cut off new players. Both needed a reset and both ran into trouble by doing the revamp without really having product to pull in new players.

Malifaux had a similar revamp to the the above, but in my experience its been a larger success and I think a big part of that is that the impact to existing players was offset by a barrage of releases that made the game far more accessible. That's a big part of GW's edition success. It's changes come with these big exciting box sets that hype both new and old players and refresh the playerbase.

Warmachine had some solid box set plans, but really struggled to make them competitively priced for new players or interesting for old. The total lack of interesting product for existing players is what I think really took the wind out X-Wing's sails.

The pandemic has certainly impacted different gaming companies differently. I started playing X-Wing with 2.0 (new players do exist!) and pre COVID I bought a couple of new ships every 3 months or so. Played a local tournie once a month. Then covid hit, tournies stopped and without the events I stopped looking at X-Wing entirely. The prepainted models which were a benefit for trying something new for an event with little effort was suddenly the opposite. Without the painting as a draw, the models never came out the box. My toys budget has gone into GW models to paint as the hobby side has been enforced over the gaming side. Without that hobby side, my X-Wing interaction has disappeared entirely.

Basically - gaming products that are largely about physical interaction of gaming have suffered more than others. Games that look like they’re “dying” right now may have a big post COVID resurgence. Or maybe not. Sometimes games die for reasons outside of their control.

 Overread wrote:
Sadly these days most companies will do a Facebook channel, but forums are dead ducks. They simply don't get the marketing and attention and the signups to make them important enough marketing wise to make them viable to sustain for many companies; whilst the FB page costs them nothing to maintain and upkeep and the signup is huge because most people these days use a facebook account and joining groups is as simple as clicking "join".


FB is worse than a forum for long term discussions and preservation of discussions and generally everything forums do. I'm honestly surprised they've never built a forum style system into FB.
But if handles casual social connections really well and companies don't have to worry about trolls and arguments half as much as they might for a forum community.

But that's what's so bizarre to me about this situation - they already have a forum, and they are going to expand it to include the new games, so they already have the outlay of hosting and bandwidth and having to get mods on board, they're just only going to allow people to use it for FAQ stuff.

I feel like they have a kind of opposite vibe to GW's problem of being too UK-centric - FB and "organised play" kinda works for the US market because everything is so store-based, but anywhere where clubs and home games are prevalent really benefits from having a stable online community to organise around.

 Yodhrin wrote:

But that's what's so bizarre to me about this situation - they already have a forum, and they are going to expand it to include the new games, so they already have the outlay of hosting and bandwidth and having to get mods on board, they're just only going to allow people to use it for FAQ stuff.

The existing forums for Marvel are also only for rules questions.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

But that's what's so bizarre to me about this situation - they already have a forum, and they are going to expand it to include the new games, so they already have the outlay of hosting and bandwidth and having to get mods on board, they're just only going to allow people to use it for FAQ stuff.

The existing forums for Marvel are also only for rules questions.

And that affects my point in what way?

 Overread wrote:


FB is worse than a forum for long term discussions and preservation of discussions and generally everything forums do. I'm honestly surprised they've never built a forum style system into FB.
But if handles casual social connections really well and companies don't have to worry about trolls and arguments half as much as they might for a forum community.

FB Groups has actually gotten a bit better. You can search groups as of maybe 16 months ago and this year they added the ability to save posts to personal collections.

Everything relating to this hobby is pretty much on FB: painting, 3d printing, RPGs and so on. Dakka, Reaper's forums, lead adventures and r/minipaiting seam to be the only big non-facebook groups out there for the English communities.

Agreed that the X-Wing 2.0 rules were a breath of fresh air (that came with a gut punch for replacing the cardboard, but that was always going to be an "ouch time" for all of us that had big collections).

I'm just crossing my fingers for a Imperial Transport (& Tank version). I'll buy two, thank you - even if I field only one!

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Shick: "Miniatures first, everything else second." Wants to build on the foundations that already exist, but with more focus on the miniatures. Miniatures are "An expression of your self", so AMG wants to have a valuable miniature experience even outside the game.

Shick: **X-Wing and Armada will remain pre-painted.** Possibly put out some painting guides for custom x-wings. More exciting sculpts, more dynamic.

Oh goody. This screams Tactical Detritus to me... That's one of the things that puts me off the Crisis Protocol game.

Hope I'm wrong though.

tactical detritus?

chaos0xomega wrote:
tactical detritus?

Yes. Tactical Detritus. Descendent of the Tactical Rock. Loved by some, reviled by others.

In seriousness, I'm referring to any of the stuff on the base of figures that they are attached to, standing on, etc.

It's present on so many of the Marvel Crisis Protocol miniatures that I'm very afraid that the Legion minis will suffer from it once AMG takes over the design work. I bloody hate it.

Ah, gotcha! I didn't make the connection but now I get it lol.

Another big thing the caps X-wing is the reliance on the license, as an imperial player they have not got anything new except for a few models
and repaints, the same could be said with the rebellion, players will buy just so many x-wings before calling it quits.
But with games like 40k, they can go off in another direction with no problem and not have to get approvals from another company.
I still hold on to my Star Wars stuff and hopes to see more new things from the Mandalorian, or maybe stuff just mentioned in their books.

Well depending on the release pace, with SO many star wars things coming out, you can totally not run out because they are comstantly releasing new stuff.
Mandolorian gave us quite a bit of stuff they can put in(Razor Crest ship down the line) for much of the game.