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One is a Custodes unit of three Allarus Terminators and 10 Sisters of Silence. Only three of these models have OBSEC, but the number of models on the objective is 10. Now if 10 Guardsmen are on the same objective, or wander over to it, who is now in control? I want to say the Custodes units, but the numbers rules says it's the Guardsmen. Can someone clear this up? We have a game going.

Thanks.

The guardsmen. You count the number of models with ObSec when contesting objective with other units with equivalent ability.

 skchsan wrote:
The guardsmen. You count the number of models with ObSec when contesting objective with other units with equivalent ability.

A player controls an objective marker if they have any models with this ability withing range of that objective marker, even if there are more enemy models withing range of that objective marker. If an enemy model within range of an objective marker also has this ability (or a similar ability), then the objective marker is controlled by the player who has the most models within range of that objective marker as normal.

This is what is confusing me. After the fact that both units have OBSEC, it's it's based of just units, not units with obsec.

It seems like, if that quote in purple is accurate, then if both players have at least 1 ObSec model in range, then "the objective marker is controlled by the player who has the most models within range of that objective marker as normal."

As normal would mean to add up all models in range regardless of ObSec.

I could be wrong, but according to the wording quoted, *models* not *number of models in a unit* within range are counted. So you could have a mob of 30 Orks with 5 models within range of the objective... and those 5 models are relevant and the 25 others are not.

I'm at work, but I think I remember reading something along those lines. But somebody out there has a rule where the fastest way to get the right answer is to post the wrong answer on the internet.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
The guardsmen. You count the number of models with ObSec when contesting objective with other units with equivalent ability.

A player controls an objective marker if they have any models with this ability withing range of that objective marker, even if there are more enemy models withing range of that objective marker. If an enemy model within range of an objective marker also has this ability (or a similar ability), then the objective marker is controlled by the player who has the most models within range of that objective marker as normal.

This is what is confusing me. After the fact that both units have OBSEC, it's it's based of just units, not units with obsec.

Based on models actually, not units. You wouldn't count all the models of a unit if some of them aren't in range. I see the confusion, though. The way they have it worded is as long as one model on each side it within range of the obejctive then you count the total number of models within range. They might have meant it to say models with ObSec, but that isn't what it says. It says models "as normal". So, do you normally count the Sisters of Silence if they are within range without any ObSec models around? If so, then they would count when you have some ObSec models on both sides.

Your opponent's mileage may vary on that, though you do have a RAW argument to support you. If you think it's going to come up, talk with you opponent beforehand so you can work it out before it becomes an issue.

If both units have obsec they cancel each other out, its like no unit has obsec anymore, and only the number of total models counts.

 p5freak wrote:
If both units have obsec they cancel each other out, its like no unit has obsec anymore, and only the number of total models counts.

This. Its actually the same as 8e, though it seems like a lot of people misinterpreted the rule.

I will make sure to clarify with the opponent before hand, as it's better to have a handshake before hand then a fist fight after.

But I was honestly hoping someone who's played ITC rules would be able to verify, because it's not fair that 50 points cancel's out almost 200.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
A player controls an objective marker if they have any models with this ability withing range of that objective marker, even if there are more enemy models withing range of that objective marker. If an enemy model within range of an objective marker also has this ability (or a similar ability), then the objective marker is controlled by the player who has the most models within range of that objective marker as normal.

As the rule clearly states, if both sides have any models in range of the objective that have Objective Secured (or similar rule), then you go back to counting models in general. Effectively, Objective Secured is negated for both sides.

So the Custodes would win in that instance, because the Sisters would add the numbers. I feel like I finally have a reason to buy sisters now!

While not applicable to RAW, if you and your opponent agree, you're always free to only count "obsec" models for control purposes if you feel the Obesc rules are "underpowered".

Like you said, talk with your opponent before hand. I like the handshake / fist fight analogy.