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 Dysartes wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
...from a physical copy of the rulebook that is rendered functionally useless by FAQ and Errata within 2 weeks of its release.

Ah, the sweet, sweet smell of internet hyperbole - how I do miss thee when I am not browsing Dakka.

Not really hyperbole. There were a couple instances in 8th edition where the changes made in the 2 week FAQ were fairly dramatic and the codex release was followed closely by a Chapter Approved/points update that updated the points values in a brand new codex. More recently, the points and power ratings in the Death Guard Codex which released in mid-January have already been modified by the Munitorum Field Manual and Power Rating Updates released on February 4th (and theres no doubt an FAQ scheduled to release any day now as well). On that note, the card packs that GW puts out with the codexes are the biggest scam ever. In a couple cases the FAQ made almost a quarter of the cards in the pack basically useless as printed right after release as a result of edits to wording and strategem point costs, etc. By the end of 8th edition the majority of the cards in some of the packs I purchased were no longer accurate as a result of subsequent faqs and balance adjustments.

Personally, I can't really justify spending money on something I know isn't going to be fully usable as-written within days of me purchasing it.

 jaredb wrote:
You can use the army builder for armies you don't have a code for. You just can't see any rules beyond the basic datatsheets for thr units without the code.

What's the point of that?

 Jidmah wrote:

 jaredb wrote:
You can use the army builder for armies you don't have a code for. You just can't see any rules beyond the basic datatsheets for thr units without the code.

What's the point of that?

Incentivizing the purchase of more codices?

When you can have the for "free" ? That is not a very good entice, even with a lowered price.

 waefre_1 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 jaredb wrote:
You can use the army builder for armies you don't have a code for. You just can't see any rules beyond the basic datatsheets for thr units without the code.

What's the point of that?

Incentivizing the purchase of more codices?

Two things :

1) Piracy of codexes through 8th was pretty simple. This makes it harder (not impossible).
2) An automatic path to get people using the app.

 Jidmah wrote:

 jaredb wrote:
You can use the army builder for armies you don't have a code for. You just can't see any rules beyond the basic datatsheets for thr units without the code.

What's the point of that?

You can use the army builder without the codex. Still have all the weapon and unit stats.

I feel like the "GW is a miniatures company" line wears a little thin when they seems to be so keen on selling books. Like, oodles of them.
The fact that they have an app, and that they seem much happier to dynamically update rules, should signal a move away from physical codexs as anything but collectors items... but if anything, as many have pointed out, we seem more tethered than ever.
I agree with choas above me that it seems to push people ever more towards piracy, which sucks.
If the Napster wars showed anything, is that, amongst people who are actually able to pay for a service, they are happy to do so if it is more convenient than the alternatives. Video streaming almost got there before fragmenting into a million competing services again. And GW were on the right path seemingly, but then screwed it up...
As soon as the app provides live, updated rules, for the whole game (including codexs), for a reasonable monthly fee, I will be there for that, as i am sure many other will. Seriously GW, I can either buy one codex for my main faction and get the rest of the rules wherever... OR I can send you a few quid a month, probably for the length of time I am into the game. And.. FYI, I have being paying spotify a monthly fee pretty much since they started... sooooo your call.

First they need to fix it. Second they need to make it free. After that go digital with the rules and make them free also. Especially with how they keep jacking up the minis prices.

Pointer5 wrote:
First they need to fix it. Second they need to make it free. After that go digital with the rules and make them free also. Especially with how they keep jacking up the minis prices.

Free - HA! Believe me, with GW you'll pay for that. Well, someone will - when they buy their next box of minis.

 jaredb wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 jaredb wrote:
You can use the army builder for armies you don't have a code for. You just can't see any rules beyond the basic datatsheets for thr units without the code.

What's the point of that?

You can use the army builder without the codex. Still have all the weapon and unit stats.

Yes, but then I have an army list without any rules. I really don't need to pay 2€/month to just add up points.

Karol wrote:
For GW to lower price, the app really had to be doing not alright at all. I wonder who those people that paid full since day one feel now.

Probably pretty happy, given that something which is worth $5/month to them now has more to it and costs less.

I’d subscribe if the subscription came with the digital rules. Until then I see no point.

the App market is different and the direct competition still better and it seems that GW is unable to improve their product in time so lowering the price because they see that "official 40k GW App" is not enough for people to pay a premium price

compared to others, still not worth the price for what you get

Oh, the app is already discounted! How very unfortunate for GW..

Maybe my wish comes true after all, and GW reintroduces digital editions of their current 40K books. This is a promising sign.

And even @2.5€/mo I'd rather use my DIY digital rulebooks, thanks

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Still less functional than Battlescribe, then?

They might finally catch up, but I think the usability will still be behind in many respects. (but I like list building on a PC instead of a phone)

I got the 40k app working in Bluestacks on my PC.
It is the same as the phone app, being an emulator, but can copy-paste, and use a keyboard and mouse.

I'm still hoping they release a digital codex option. I piled into getting them way back with the Eldar codex in 2013 (?), and there's no reason they canot still offer them.
It'd get around the 'stuck in customs' problems the UK is having. They should email the app code on purchase, if bought online, and send a codeless paper codex out.

ccs wrote:

Pointer5 wrote:
First they need to fix it. Second they need to make it free. After that go digital with the rules and make them free also. Especially with how they keep jacking up the minis prices.

Free - HA! Believe me, with GW you'll pay for that. Well, someone will - when they buy their next box of minis.

GW app becomes free. Wake up in 10th ed with basic box of infantry costing 85$.

Karol wrote:

ccs wrote:

Pointer5 wrote:
First they need to fix it. Second they need to make it free. After that go digital with the rules and make them free also. Especially with how they keep jacking up the minis prices.

Free - HA! Believe me, with GW you'll pay for that. Well, someone will - when they buy their next box of minis.

GW app becomes free. Wake up in 10th ed with basic box of infantry costing 85$.

I could play well with the funds I have.

taking bets what happens first?

10th Editon or a proper 40k App

That's the very definition of s suckers's bet. It will definitely be fifteenth edition.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
...from a physical copy of the rulebook that is rendered functionally useless by FAQ and Errata within 2 weeks of its release.

Ah, the sweet, sweet smell of internet hyperbole - how I do miss thee when I am not browsing Dakka.

Not really hyperbole. There were a couple instances in 8th edition where the changes made in the 2 week FAQ were fairly dramatic and the codex release was followed closely by a Chapter Approved/points update that updated the points values in a brand new codex. More recently, the points and power ratings in the Death Guard Codex which released in mid-January have already been modified by the Munitorum Field Manual and Power Rating Updates released on February 4th (and theres no doubt an FAQ scheduled to release any day now as well). On that note, the card packs that GW puts out with the codexes are the biggest scam ever. In a couple cases the FAQ made almost a quarter of the cards in the pack basically useless as printed right after release as a result of edits to wording and strategem point costs, etc. By the end of 8th edition the majority of the cards in some of the packs I purchased were no longer accurate as a result of subsequent faqs and balance adjustments.

Personally, I can't really justify spending money on something I know isn't going to be fully usable as-written within days of me purchasing it.

There is a substantial difference between "functionally useless" and not "...going to be fully usable as-written within days..." - hence, internet hyperbole.

Even after the update to the MFM and Points Level updates - v1.1? - the vast majority of the recently-released Death Guard book is usable. Even if we see a FAQ document released in the next week or two, we're unlikely to see many changes. Of the 9th ed Codex (or Supplement) FAQs I've looked at, none have acres of changes. I am a little surprised to see points cost and power level changes crop up in the FAQ docs as well as in the reference docs, but I've also given up understanding how GW try to organise their information, so...

 Dysartes wrote:
There is a substantial difference between "functionally useless" and not "...going to be fully usable as-written within days..." - hence, internet hyperbole.

Even after the update to the MFM and Points Level updates - v1.1? - the vast majority of the recently-released Death Guard book is usable. Even if we see a FAQ document released in the next week or two, we're unlikely to see many changes. Of the 9th ed Codex (or Supplement) FAQs I've looked at, none have acres of changes. I am a little surprised to see points cost and power level changes crop up in the FAQ docs as well as in the reference docs, but I've also given up understanding how GW try to organise their information, so...

This. I have used my DG codex and WotS all the way until the new codex dropped, and am still using the ork codex and SotB, with the former having two pages from the new IA book added. Any yes, those pages are not pirated, but cut from a legit book

If there is an errata for something I just mark the rule with a sticky note - most FAQs are just changing RAW to RAI anyways, so you only need the FAQ when you need the exact wording, many others just change one number to another.

And who uses the points/PL in codices to build lists anyways?

Until it becomes free, like the competition, I don't see any reason to even consider it. The fact they're touting as "upgrades" the kind of functionality that should have been there to start with is laughable.

 kodos wrote:
taking bets what happens first?

10th Editon or a proper 40k App

I know it's a meme to joke about how bad it is, but it's really a lot better than folks make it out to be. The price isn't something I'm going to argue about, but the functionality is pretty close, especially compared to launch.

Is it taking longer than it should? Yes. I also think they should have delayed the app until the army builder was out, or didn't charge during beta. But, here we are.

 jaredb wrote:

 kodos wrote:
taking bets what happens first?

10th Editon or a proper 40k App

I know it's a meme to joke about how bad it is, but it's really a lot better than folks make it out to be. The price isn't something I'm going to argue about, but the functionality is pretty close, especially compared to launch.

Is it taking longer than it should? Yes. I also think they should have delayed the app until the army builder was out, or didn't charge during beta. But, here we are.

being better than it was at launch just means we went from a paid Alpha Test to a paid Beta Test

and the main product to compare it with is the Age of Sigmar App and Army Builder
as long as the 40k version can do less but costs more, it does not matter how much it improved over the previous version it is still worse than the other support App from GW

so there is not even the excuse that GW cannot do it better, like people always have with the rules, but this time we know that they can do better, they just want to see with how much they can get away with

I completely agree about cost at launch.

And, I don't think people remember, but the AOS army builder was a complete mess when it cam out too.

I think the whole thing should have been delayed until the army builder was out, and launched with the Space Marine + Necron codex. Then for free for the next couple of months as they worked out most of the kinks/ rolled out features. But, we are at the point we are now.

It's a great looking, and easy to use tool, and a fantastic resource. Including all the 8th ed stuff was a nice touch, but man it's going to be really hard to get adoption now after such a shaky start, no matter how good it gets.

I'm surprised anyone ever considered paying for that app honestly, £5 a month is too steep but then so is £3.

If it was £5 a year then sure, but monthly subscription nah.

 tauist wrote:
Maybe my wish comes true after all, and GW reintroduces digital editions of their current 40K books.

I just want digital codexes back - in 8th I bought codexes for armies I don’t have just for the fluff, but, since I move a lot, I’m not down with being forced to have paper books and/or an app that doesn’t even work properly on iPad.

I agree, also because in my mind a book is forever mine... A subscription app is basically a rent.

As long as the app costs approximately as the paper book (take 2/3 year of life of an edition, multiply by the monthly fee: unless it's below 50%-75%) I won't even consider it.

GW already destroyed the Old World, put some of my models in Legends (Bike Characters, only to release Primaris... On bike) so I won't consider renting anything from them unless it's very cheap. And don't even let me start on Covid (I would have let the app free during this period and raise the price when the tournament scene will get traction again)

Mine still crashes on my android tablet whenever I try to type something into the search function or just manually navigate through the menu. It is literally unusable for me.

I've also been spoiled from having used War Room for Warmahordes which is the level of quality I'd expect from a paid app. I think the idea of a 40K app is a great one but it needs to be of a similar level of quality and functionality to war room and include fully functional digital codexes that auto-update. Once that happens I'll consider subscribing to it. When it actually works for more than a couple of seconds without crashing I'll consider using the free version. Right now I feel worse off because of the apps existence because I used to buy all my codexes digitally, which is an option I no longer have.

EDIT: out of curiosity I just installed the app on my phone. It seems more stable in that I can get all the way to selecting the unit datasheet via search or menu navigation before it crashes.

I'm glad I haven't spent 1 monetary unit on this!

Pointer5 wrote:
First they need to fix it. Second they need to make it free. After that go digital with the rules and make them free also. Especially with how they keep jacking up the minis prices.

Completely agree. It's pretty absurd we still have to pay for rules. Get with the times, GW!