Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
I'm unclear on how to handle cases where units are either partially or wholly unable to disembark from a vehicle.
8th edition was very clear on how to handle this, i.e.
any disembarking model that cannot be set up in this way is slain
The consensus seems to be that this is the same in 9th edition, i.e. as much of the unit is set up as possible with the rest being destroyed, but we were unable to find a rule or FAQ that actually states this.
A possible interpretation is that if the entire unit cannot be set up 'wholly within 3" of the transport and not within engagement range of any enemy models' then it cannot be set up at all as this is listed as a requirement of disembarking.
A further question would be whether any embarked models that are not set up count as being destroyed for morale purposes.
I feel like I'm missing something obvious so any pointers to the relevant rule/s here would be appreciated.
They did also add the emergency disembarkation stratagem in 9th that lets you disembark up to 6" out but you have to take dangerous terrain tests for every model.
I wouldnt be surprised if they forgot to add the part about models that cant be placed are destroyed in the BRB though, as they make many typos and errors in their publications.
JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-PLCIKYCABW8PG
alextroy wrote: This is covered by the Unit Coherency rules.
Unit coherency says :
If a unit cannot end any kind of move in unit coherency, that move cannot be made.
A disembarked unit counts as having moved. If i cant set up an embarking unit in unit coherency, the unit cant disembark ?
Counts as having moved, is not the same thing as ending your move in unit coherency.
Disembarking is specifically not a move, but you do count as moving after the fact.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
alextroy wrote: This is covered by the Unit Coherency rules.
Unit coherency says :
If a unit cannot end any kind of move in unit coherency, that move cannot be made.
A disembarked unit counts as having moved. If i cant set up an embarking unit in unit coherency, the unit cant disembark ?
Counts as having moved, is not the same thing as ending your move in unit coherency.
Disembarking is specifically not a move, but you do count as moving after the fact.
Ok, so what happens when you cant set up a disembarking unit in unit coherency ?
It does not seem like you can willingly disembark in that case.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/03/05 09:58:45
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
Ok, so what happens when you cant set up a disembarking unit in unit coherency ?
You need to apply the rules for breaking coherency then, killing off models that don't respect it.
Yes, true, models that cant be set up in unit coherency are destroyed. And for the morale question, you need to make a morale test when models in a unit are destroyed.
It's not a coherency problem, as you can't set the models up on the table in the first place. That means you're stuck unable to finish the disembark move. The coherency rules don't relate to having part of the unit on the board and part of the unit off the board anyway.
kirotheavenger wrote: It's not a coherency problem, as you can't set the models up on the table in the first place. That means you're stuck unable to finish the disembark move. The coherency rules don't relate to having part of the unit on the board and part of the unit off the board anyway.
There is no such thing as a disembark move. A disembarked unit is set up, they count as having moved, but thats not the same as if they actually moved.
UNIT COHERENCY
A unit that has more than one model must be set up and finish any sort of move as a single group, with all models within 2" horizontally and 5" vertically of at least one other model from their unit. While a unit has six or more models, all models must instead be within 2" horizontally and 5" vertically of at least two other models from their unit. This is called unit coherency. If a unit cannot end any kind of move in unit coherency, that move cannot be made. Units are primarily moved in the Movement phase, but they can also be moved in the Charge phase and the Fight phase.
Some rules allow you to add models to a unit during the battle; such models must always be set up in unit coherency with the unit they are being added to. Sometimes there will be insufficient room to set up all the models from a unit, or it will not be possible to set up all the models so that they are in unit coherency. When this is the case, any models that cannot be set up are considered to have been destroyed.
Looks like you are right anyway. The second paragraph only applies to models which are added to a unit during the battle.
Another question, what happens when a unit from a destroyed transport cannot be set up in unit coherency ? They wouldnt be able to disembark, but they also cant stay inside the transport, because its removed. Is the entire unit killed ?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/03/05 12:45:28
If you can’t satisfy the disembarking requirements you can’t disembark, is how I’d read it.
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
UNIT COHERENCY
A unit that has more than one model must be set up and finish any sort of move as a single group, with all models within 2" horizontally and 5" vertically of at least one other model from their unit. While a unit has six or more models, all models must instead be within 2" horizontally and 5" vertically of at least two other models from their unit. This is called unit coherency. If a unit cannot end any kind of move in unit coherency, that move cannot be made. Units are primarily moved in the Movement phase, but they can also be moved in the Charge phase and the Fight phase.
Some rules allow you to add models to a unit during the battle; such models must always be set up in unit coherency with the unit they are being added to. Sometimes there will be insufficient room to set up all the models from a unit, or it will not be possible to set up all the models so that they are in unit coherency. When this is the case, any models that cannot be set up are considered to have been destroyed.
I was speaking of the highlighted sentence. If you can't deploy in coherency, those models are destroyed.
UNIT COHERENCY
A unit that has more than one model must be set up and finish any sort of move as a single group, with all models within 2" horizontally and 5" vertically of at least one other model from their unit. While a unit has six or more models, all models must instead be within 2" horizontally and 5" vertically of at least two other models from their unit. This is called unit coherency. If a unit cannot end any kind of move in unit coherency, that move cannot be made. Units are primarily moved in the Movement phase, but they can also be moved in the Charge phase and the Fight phase.
Some rules allow you to add models to a unit during the battle; such models must always be set up in unit coherency with the unit they are being added to. Sometimes there will be insufficient room to set up all the models from a unit, or it will not be possible to set up all the models so that they are in unit coherency. When this is the case, any models that cannot be set up are considered to have been destroyed.
I was speaking of the highlighted sentence. If you can't deploy in coherency, those models are destroyed.
But that paragraph only applies when you add models to a unit during the battle.
UNIT COHERENCY
A unit that has more than one model must be set up and finish any sort of move as a single group, with all models within 2" horizontally and 5" vertically of at least one other model from their unit. While a unit has six or more models, all models must instead be within 2" horizontally and 5" vertically of at least two other models from their unit. This is called unit coherency. If a unit cannot end any kind of move in unit coherency, that move cannot be made. Units are primarily moved in the Movement phase, but they can also be moved in the Charge phase and the Fight phase.
Some rules allow you to add models to a unit during the battle; such models must always be set up in unit coherency with the unit they are being added to. Sometimes there will be insufficient room to set up all the models from a unit, or it will not be possible to set up all the models so that they are in unit coherency. When this is the case, any models that cannot be set up are considered to have been destroyed.
I was speaking of the highlighted sentence. If you can't deploy in coherency, those models are destroyed.
But that paragraph only applies when you add models to a unit during the battle.
Mmmm, disagree. I believe that paragraph is speaking more broadly, even though it is under the semi-header "some rules allow you to add models to a unit during the battle." I believe, though I do not have definitive proof, that all those sentences apply to UNIT COHERENCY, and are not limited to the sub-header.
Death Guard - "The Rotmongers"
Chaos Space Marines - "The Sin-Eaters"
Dark Angels - "Nemeses Errant"
Deathwatch
UNIT COHERENCY
A unit that has more than one model must be set up and finish any sort of move as a single group, with all models within 2" horizontally and 5" vertically of at least one other model from their unit. While a unit has six or more models, all models must instead be within 2" horizontally and 5" vertically of at least two other models from their unit. This is called unit coherency. If a unit cannot end any kind of move in unit coherency, that move cannot be made. Units are primarily moved in the Movement phase, but they can also be moved in the Charge phase and the Fight phase.
Some rules allow you to add models to a unit during the battle; such models must always be set up in unit coherency with the unit they are being added to. Sometimes there will be insufficient room to set up all the models from a unit, or it will not be possible to set up all the models so that they are in unit coherency. When this is the case, any models that cannot be set up are considered to have been destroyed.
I was speaking of the highlighted sentence. If you can't deploy in coherency, those models are destroyed.
But that paragraph only applies when you add models to a unit during the battle.
Mmmm, disagree. I believe that paragraph is speaking more broadly, even though it is under the semi-header "some rules allow you to add models to a unit during the battle." I believe, though I do not have definitive proof, that all those sentences apply to UNIT COHERENCY, and are not limited to the sub-header.
Yeah, it reads to me were only the first sentence of the second paragraph applies to adding models (hence the semi-colon and "such models"), while the next two sentences are more general.
You could interpret it this way if your being strict
Emergency disembarking gives you permission to set up on the battlefield subject to restrictions
Coherency then states
"A unit that has more than one model must be set up and finish any sort of move as a single group"
So you cannot set up only part of a unit
"If a unit cannot end any kind of move in unit coherency, that move cannot be made."
Any kind of move covers disembarking so if you cannot disembark a unit fully it cannot be disembarked
Alternatively the sentence
"Sometimes there will be insufficient room to set up all the models from a unit, or it will not be possible to set up all the models so that they are in unit coherency. When this is the case, any models that cannot be set up are considered to have been destroyed."
Is not contingent on the previous sentence and is pretty clear only the individual models that are unable to be deployed are destroyed so thats what I'd go with.
UNIT COHERENCY
A unit that has more than one model must be set up and finish any sort of move as a single group, with all models within 2" horizontally and 5" vertically of at least one other model from their unit. While a unit has six or more models, all models must instead be within 2" horizontally and 5" vertically of at least two other models from their unit. This is called unit coherency. If a unit cannot end any kind of move in unit coherency, that move cannot be made. Units are primarily moved in the Movement phase, but they can also be moved in the Charge phase and the Fight phase.
Some rules allow you to add models to a unit during the battle; such models must always be set up in unit coherency with the unit they are being added to. Sometimes there will be insufficient room to set up all the models from a unit, or it will not be possible to set up all the models so that they are in unit coherency. When this is the case, any models that cannot be set up are considered to have been destroyed.
I was speaking of the highlighted sentence. If you can't deploy in coherency, those models are destroyed.
But that paragraph only applies when you add models to a unit during the battle.
No it does not. There is a full stop, and nothing about the second sentence implies or states it is related to the first.
