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There was a GT held in Texas this past weekend, and the top three were:

1. Craftworlds Eldar with Ynnari (Sean Nayden)
2. Orks
3. Custodes with Astra Militarum

https://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2021/03/15/all-you-can-eat-soup-covid-at-1st-us-major-of-2021/?fbclid=IwAR0EZ3KnIiG0Zz9Pp7qp9JTR6I9xKvHHj5eb92MlPX7zqfBly9uxq2InhH4

The article doesn't have many details, but its interesting that the top three do not have 9th Edition Codexes. The top list included Hellions. Yes. A squad of 14 Hellions. Who knew? He also had Dark Reapers, Incubi, Wyches, Wraithseers, a Ravager and Razorwings.

Dark Reapers are so 7th edition lol

I think this is the game - ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXWC4aUwjAA&t=3341s

A.T. wrote:
I think this is the game - ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXWC4aUwjAA&t=3341s

Yes, that's the game.

I've had a smile on my face that such a strange list won a GT and fought a solid bracket to do it ever since I heard.

Neat.

Avatar of Khaine nerfs when?

In all seriousness, looking at the list it's basically just a bunch of solid countermeta units (wraithseer in particular is very good at being obnoxious to kill with meta melta weapons thanks to its invuln save and T8 on a not super expensive platform that also has pretty quality melee attacks) with a bunch of hyper cheap units like razorwings that are really really great at scoring points.

The 2nd Place Ork had 18 Smasha Guns ; three Grot Mega-Tanks; Lootas and several squads of Grots. Thats some firepower!

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
The 2nd Place Ork had 18 Smasha Guns ; three Grot Mega-Tanks; Lootas and several squads of Grots. Thats some firepower!

LOL - this is a proppa ork army IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
Neat.

Avatar of Khaine nerfs when?

In all seriousness, looking at the list it's basically just a bunch of solid countermeta units (wraithseer in particular is very good at being obnoxious to kill with meta melta weapons thanks to its invuln save and T8 on a not super expensive platform that also has pretty quality melee attacks) with a bunch of hyper cheap units like razorwings that are really really great at scoring points.

It's always been good.

I don't play CWE often but support platforms with D cannons really should be dominating on these tables as well. Eradicators are basically useless against them cause they cant split fire effectively. Plus with the smaller table are 24" ILOS weapon can reach most of the objective points from a safe position!

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
The 2nd Place Ork had 18 Smasha Guns ; three Grot Mega-Tanks; Lootas and several squads of Grots. Thats some firepower!

Basically kill anything that makes the gretchin worry and put up flags with them and sneak kommandos in the back.

Grot Mob
Mek KFF
Bike Boss

20 Gretchin
20 Gretchin
10 Gretchin

5 Kommandos

3 Grot Mega KBBs
18 Smasha


Bad Moons
Weirdboy
27 Gretchin
9 Lootas


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
Neat.

Avatar of Khaine nerfs when?

In all seriousness, looking at the list it's basically just a bunch of solid countermeta units (wraithseer in particular is very good at being obnoxious to kill with meta melta weapons thanks to its invuln save and T8 on a not super expensive platform that also has pretty quality melee attacks) with a bunch of hyper cheap units like razorwings that are really really great at scoring points.

This list has some more to it.

Crafters/Concealment
Avatar
Skyrunner

3x3 Reapers
2 Wraithseers

Ynnari
Archon
Yvraine

3 min Razorwings
2 Ur-ghul

5 Wyches
Beastmaster
7 Inucbi
14 Hellions
Dissie Ravager


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

3. Custodes with Astra Militarum

Legit mega dreadnought spam ( 7! ) with some regular scions and one command with meltas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Interesting top 10 - here's the rest:

Death Guard ( no Morty )
BT
DA (lost very first game to Harlies)
T'au - Aun'shi, lots of Breachers, Carnivores, Coldstar, Riptide, Ghostkeel, 2 Stealth units, Pathfinders, Y'vahra, 2 Devilfish
BA
Dreadnoughts, Baby Knights, and Knight
"normal" Custodes

The BA list was exceptionally dangerous. In one of the later matches, it took the Slayer the Warlord secondary and scored it first turn by dive bombing the opponent. Very fast

The biggest surprise for me is actually the Tau list. Also, anyone got a link to the results?

So what, if anything, does this reveal about the state of "meta" in 9th. I keep hearing it's very much objectives and that's it, which most people seem to think is a bad thing because it's such a narrow focus (thanks ITC).

Wayniac wrote:
So what, if anything, does this reveal about the state of "meta" in 9th. I keep hearing it's very much objectives and that's it, which most people seem to think is a bad thing because it's such a narrow focus (thanks ITC).

Well, the quick takeaways are:

1. The meta is fairly diverse in what factions can perform well. Orks, Chaos soup, Death Guard, flavors of Space Marine and Eldar soup are all strong contenders (and other tournaments let us know that AdMech and Harlequins are riding high in there too with Custodes and Adepta Sororitas still contenders but trailing a hair).

2. Terrain remains, as always, critical. This tournament had at least one table with a special 'bunker' terrain in each deployment zone that allowed vehicles/monsters to walk through the walls.

3. Based on the last match-up between Nayden and Nanavati, raw killing power isn't the winning formula. You want to balance playing the mission with having the tools necessary to surgically remove problematic enemy units.

Wayniac wrote:
So what, if anything, does this reveal about the state of "meta" in 9th.

More than anything else, the takeaway is that the US meta is still *very* young, and we'll need more data to get a handle on how factions are performing on that side of the pond(s). There are absolutely flying rodent gak lists in that roster relative to the bulk of the 9th edition data so far (from entirely different environments).

 Daedalus81 wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
The 2nd Place Ork had 18 Smasha Guns ; three Grot Mega-Tanks; Lootas and several squads of Grots. Thats some firepower!

Basically kill anything that makes the gretchin worry and put up flags with them and sneak kommandos in the back.

Grot Mob
Mek KFF
Bike Boss

20 Gretchin
20 Gretchin
10 Gretchin

5 Kommandos

3 Grot Mega KBBs
18 Smasha


Bad Moons
Weirdboy
27 Gretchin
9 Lootas


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
Neat.

Avatar of Khaine nerfs when?

In all seriousness, looking at the list it's basically just a bunch of solid countermeta units (wraithseer in particular is very good at being obnoxious to kill with meta melta weapons thanks to its invuln save and T8 on a not super expensive platform that also has pretty quality melee attacks) with a bunch of hyper cheap units like razorwings that are really really great at scoring points.

This list has some more to it.

Crafters/Concealment
Avatar
Skyrunner

3x3 Reapers
2 Wraithseers

Ynnari
Archon
Yvraine

3 min Razorwings
2 Ur-ghul

5 Wyches
Beastmaster
7 Inucbi
14 Hellions
Dissie Ravager


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

3. Custodes with Astra Militarum

Legit mega dreadnought spam ( 7! ) with some regular scions and one command with meltas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Interesting top 10 - here's the rest:

Death Guard ( no Morty )
BT
DA (lost very first game to Harlies)
T'au - Aun'shi, lots of Breachers, Carnivores, Coldstar, Riptide, Ghostkeel, 2 Stealth units, Pathfinders, Y'vahra, 2 Devilfish
BA
Dreadnoughts, Baby Knights, and Knight
"normal" Custodes

I think he had the Yncarne in there too?

Audustum wrote:

I think he had the Yncarne in there too?

I don't see it on BS.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Audustum wrote:

I think he had the Yncarne in there too?

I don't see it on BS.

You're right, the screenshot I had listed Yvraine twice due to overlap and my brain fried.

Darsath wrote:
The biggest surprise for me is actually the Tau list. Also, anyone got a link to the results?

WWWWLW

Scored as follows:
82 to 38 - UM
88 to 51 - CW
72 to 49 - The Marine Dreadnoughts and Knights list
92 to 47 - Custodes & Scions
50 to 75 - ( Nanavanti ) DG
88 to 82 - weird CSM soup using Heretic Astartes keyword

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Darsath wrote:
The biggest surprise for me is actually the Tau list. Also, anyone got a link to the results?

WWWWLW

Scored as follows:
82 to 38 - UM
88 to 51 - CW
72 to 49 - The Marine Dreadnoughts and Knights list
92 to 47 - Custodes & Scions
50 to 75 - ( Nanavanti ) DG
88 to 82 - weird CSM soup using Heretic Astartes keyword

They class Nanavati's list as DG but it is also some kind of Chaos Soup itself I think. Focused on MW's with a Lord of Change or am I assuming too much overlap with TJ's list?

Everything about that ork list is odd. The whole tournament feels like people bringing their 8th edition lists out to play 9th.

People kind of missing the fact that it's Sean Nayden. He always plays to the beat of his own drum and makes up the weirdest jank-ass lists that are uniquely him and which people try to replicate and fail.

Audustum wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Darsath wrote:
The biggest surprise for me is actually the Tau list. Also, anyone got a link to the results?

WWWWLW

Scored as follows:
82 to 38 - UM
88 to 51 - CW
72 to 49 - The Marine Dreadnoughts and Knights list
92 to 47 - Custodes & Scions
50 to 75 - ( Nanavanti ) DG
88 to 82 - weird CSM soup using Heretic Astartes keyword

They class Nanavati's list as DG but it is also some kind of Chaos Soup itself I think. Focused on MW's with a Lord of Change or am I assuming too much overlap with TJ's list?

All DG. Lots of pox.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Darsath wrote:
The biggest surprise for me is actually the Tau list. Also, anyone got a link to the results?

WWWWLW

Scored as follows:
82 to 38 - UM
88 to 51 - CW
72 to 49 - The Marine Dreadnoughts and Knights list
92 to 47 - Custodes & Scions
50 to 75 - ( Nanavanti ) DG
88 to 82 - weird CSM soup using Heretic Astartes keyword

They class Nanavati's list as DG but it is also some kind of Chaos Soup itself I think. Focused on MW's with a Lord of Change or am I assuming too much overlap with TJ's list?

All DG. Lots of pox.

Huh, I thought I saw a birdman in the youtube video. Oh well.

 Jidmah wrote:
Everything about that ork list is odd. The whole tournament feels like people bringing their 8th edition lists out to play 9th.

Sort of. I can see where he's going with it, which is enough shooting to keep gross safe. The gross don't care to shoot so they're stringing up banners and then Engage with kommandos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Audustum wrote:


Huh, I thought I saw a birdman in the youtube video. Oh well.

Probably the DP


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bosskelot wrote:
People kind of missing the fact that it's Sean Nayden. He always plays to the beat of his own drum and makes up the weirdest jank-ass lists that are uniquely him and which people try to replicate and fail.

It's a quintessential 9th edition list. The problem is other people and how they perceive options especially with no experience in this edition due to covid.

He has cheap and hideable units for actions, speed and unit count for table control, durability, and effective unit removal for big threats.

Sean Nayden’s list was unfortunately illegal. He ran 3 units of 1 razorwing flocks (which was part of his MSU screening/secondary grabbing) and per the current Munitorum Field Manual the minimum unit size is 3.

greyknight12 wrote:
Sean Nayden’s list was unfortunately illegal. He ran 3 units of 1 razorwing flocks (which was part of his MSU screening/secondary grabbing) and per the current Munitorum Field Manual the minimum unit size is 3.

That's unfortunate. He can probably keep the general list dropping one and squeezing a couple other models out.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Everything about that ork list is odd. The whole tournament feels like people bringing their 8th edition lists out to play 9th.

Sort of. I can see where he's going with it, which is enough shooting to keep gross safe. The gross don't care to shoot so they're stringing up banners and then Engage with kommandos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Audustum wrote:


Huh, I thought I saw a birdman in the youtube video. Oh well.

Probably the DP


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bosskelot wrote:
People kind of missing the fact that it's Sean Nayden. He always plays to the beat of his own drum and makes up the weirdest jank-ass lists that are uniquely him and which people try to replicate and fail.

It's a quintessential 9th edition list. The problem is other people and how they perceive options especially with no experience in this edition due to covid.

He has cheap and hideable units for actions, speed and unit count for table control, durability, and effective unit removal for big threats.

Interesting to note that Nanavati thought Nayden's list 'lacked punch' before facing it and that it seemingly did surprise him. So even people immersing themselves in 9th were surprised by it.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

greyknight12 wrote:
Sean Nayden’s list was unfortunately illegal. He ran 3 units of 1 razorwing flocks (which was part of his MSU screening/secondary grabbing) and per the current Munitorum Field Manual the minimum unit size is 3.

That's unfortunate. He can probably keep the general list dropping one and squeezing a couple other models out.

Probably, but it looks like at least some of the power of the list was the great zoning/board control from those inexpensive Razorwings. They're actually quite easy to hide as well because they're so small, especially if you take units of 1.

Shouldn't the headline here be 'Top Player Sean Nayden Cheats to Win a 40k Tournament' given his illegal list?

 Canadian 5th wrote:
Shouldn't the headline here be 'Top Player Sean Nayden Cheats to Win a 40k Tournament' given his illegal list?

It's legal by the Codex - for all you know he cleared it with the TO. Might want to watch for cheating accusations.

Yeah, I have to confess I'm now struggling to find where the unit entry was updated to be 3+ models rather than 1-12. Does anyone have a reference for that?