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The value calculation has been done above and the result is £127.5 of stuff for £85. That's a 30% saving, you have to have a post-modern perspective on the definition of 'real' to say that's not real.

tneva82 wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
I think it's more the fact that this is barely 500 points, and I thought the idea was that each combat patrol was at least enough to play a game. I assume the points of various units will be going up with the new codex.

Goal is to have 25pl in it

- Dunecrawler PL 6
- Skitarii PL 5 at 10 model unit or PL 6 as two 5 Model units
- Kataphron PL 5 (Breachers) or PL 7 (Destroyers)
- Enginseer PL 2
Total: PL 18 to 21

So a bit of a miss on the Combat Patrol target unless there are some serious PL/Points increases coming in these units.

tneva82 wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
I think it's more the fact that this is barely 500 points, and I thought the idea was that each combat patrol was at least enough to play a game. I assume the points of various units will be going up with the new codex.

Goal is to have 25pl in it

Shame literally nobody cares about PL

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
I think it's more the fact that this is barely 500 points, and I thought the idea was that each combat patrol was at least enough to play a game. I assume the points of various units will be going up with the new codex.

Goal is to have 25pl in it

Shame literally nobody cares about PL

Crusade is king locally. Stating opinion as fact is poor debate

Even PL wise its not on target.

Thing is I like the box and the minis are a good pick. Fairly solid set up which is what you want for a battalion box. Just it could have done with another unit to bulk it up. Something a little unusual for a change that would have made up the numbers.

It does feel a little empty. 2 troops, and HQ and a vehicle is alright but Drukhari had an HQ, troops, an elite, a transport and a gunboat that could be built as another transport. Definitely feels like it could have had another unit in there, but thats probably more a reflection of how expensive their models are.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
I think it's more the fact that this is barely 500 points, and I thought the idea was that each combat patrol was at least enough to play a game. I assume the points of various units will be going up with the new codex.

Goal is to have 25pl in it

Shame literally nobody cares about PL

It’s the only way I play nowadays and I’m getting really tired of people trying to tell me I’m playing toy soldiers wrong for doing so.

 Olthannon wrote:
Even PL wise its not on target.

Thing is I like the box and the minis are a good pick. Fairly solid set up which is what you want for a battalion box. Just it could have done with another unit to bulk it up. Something a little unusual for a change that would have made up the numbers.

Well assuming no pl changes.

Also another unit=higher price.

I hope we will see some point/PL increases with the new codex - alongside an appropriate buff for the units. I really didn't like how 8th edition turned my semi-elite techy boys into a sort of horde army.

As for the box set, for a beginner I think it serves really well as a foundation for an army. I'm not sure why people doesn't think it have a theme - it screams 'Ad Mech gunline' to me.

tneva82 wrote:
Also another unit=higher price.

Wot?

It's barely better than old, excellent value AM start collecting box. For nearly twice the price. They already had huge price jump, throwing in 5 more troops wouldn't touch GW profits one bit and it would do a lot to assuage complains.

It feels every CP box is becoming more and more garbage, just look at a whole TEN minis in DA one and now this...

So...is this literally the old Start Collecting box, but with the HQ swapped out and a Kataphron unit added in? The old one was 90 bucks before they replaced it right? That means bumping up to 140, and noting that the Enginseer is apparently 3$ cheaper than the Dominus (though both are drastically overpriced), the savings on this compared to the old box would be....5$. But on the whole, it increases the barrier for entry.

I've said it before, but I feel that if the Combat Patrols were in addition to Start Collecting boxes, they would be fantastic. You'd have a "Start Here" box plus an "Expand Here" box to get a small army fast. Replacing them wholesale just makes the entry point into the hobby more expensive, and makes me less likely to spend on it. I've for one have bought several of the Start Collecting boxes for "eventually" projects, because in Warhammer terms they were cheap and gave a small baseline, but haven't even touched the Combat Patrols - I find the concept of 1-5 extra models in the box for an additional 50 dollars a bit too rich for my taste.

 Irbis wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Also another unit=higher price.

It's barely better than old, excellent value AM start collecting box. For nearly twice the price. They already had huge price jump, throwing in 5 more troops wouldn't touch GW profits one bit and it would do a lot to assuage complains.

Not 5, 3. 3 more troops

 kurhanik wrote:
I've said it before, but I feel that if the Combat Patrols were in addition to Start Collecting boxes, they would be fantastic. You'd have a "Start Here" box plus an "Expand Here" box to get a small army fast. Replacing them wholesale just makes the entry point into the hobby more expensive, and makes me less likely to spend on it. I've for one have bought several of the Start Collecting boxes for "eventually" projects, because in Warhammer terms they were cheap and gave a small baseline, but haven't even touched the Combat Patrols - I find the concept of 1-5 extra models in the box for an additional 50 dollars a bit too rich for my taste.

What is really funny is the fact that they DID this before!

I still remember Blood of Baal (BA vs Tyranids) - it had both base box, and expansion. I also recall expansions to similar boxes for SM, CSM, SW, and orks. I still regret not getting it, even though it was kinda overpriced in my local shop at the time - it would be a bargain today

Yes, yes, I get GW can't produce fast enough, and selling for very high prices might be better than being permanently understocked, but they are really killing the hobby side of things by scaring away new customers (and burning out the old) in their constant pursuit of ever higher $$$...

 Irbis wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Also another unit=higher price.

Wot?

It's barely better than old, excellent value AM start collecting box. For nearly twice the price. They already had huge price jump, throwing in 5 more troops wouldn't touch GW profits one bit and it would do a lot to assuage complains.

It feels every CP box is becoming more and more garbage, just look at a whole TEN minis in DA one and now this...

It already has about 30% discount. You really think gw is going to give it bigger? 127.5 for 85. If you think gw wouldnt add up to price i got island to sell for you.

Honestly, PL got off to a bad reputation due to "competitive" players hating it on principle just to be edgy.

But the new, much more streamlined points in all the 9th ed. books with points removed for 95% of all options is now essentially just a PL system that's only still called "points" to market it to the PL-haters.

Not to be pessimistic, but I'm very afraid of what this could mean for the Tau CP. The current SC! is basically the best one in the 40K range and it's base 19 PL already.

Screw over it and add something like Pathfinders or trade the Ethereal for and Enforcer or a Fireblade and a Devilfish and this could be either an alright change or pretty much a price increase for the sake of it.

Yeah, so far the only CP to really work for me has been the DE one. That box is just heavy.

At least this one still encourages you to buy more than one box, but my FLGS still has one with Cawl in it, if I want to buy it.

From a more seasoned player, I like the box more, as I couldn't want another Dominus but I also can't use another onager, so the box is a wash for me.

Of course GW cheap it up, it's GW the more money they make the worse deals they want to give. So for that I'm about as surprised as I am Tuesday comes after Monday.

If its a good buy, really is up to the new players and what they feel they get out of the box at this point.

At least it's not the worst and is better imo than the DG offering.

tneva82 wrote:
It already has about 30% discount. You really think gw is going to give it bigger? 127.5 for 85. If you think gw wouldnt add up to price i got island to sell for you.

Well, seeing past boxes had 50% off, yes, I expected them to keep doing so, especially when they already killed attractiveness of 'starter' boxes by squashing the impulse buy appeal. Especially seeing they don't even keep the 25 CP promise. Silly me

 CMLR wrote:
Not to be pessimistic, but I'm very afraid of what this could mean for the Tau CP. The current SC! is basically the best one in the 40K range and it's base 19 PL already.

I was mildly optimistic after DE, but that was obviously just a fluke seeing they had someone pushing them hard in both mini and rule department. Expect 10 minis, like DA box, they will probably throw in stealth suits, double price, and call it a day...

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
From a more seasoned player, I like the box more, as I couldn't want another Dominus

Dunno why people keep saying this when it just makes no sense. First, Dominus is more expensive, so the box would be more attractive with him. Second, they didn't run any boxes with Dominus for years now so no new player is going to have him, and big mini would be more appealing to someone starting than a mook who can be easily converted from a Skitarii and doesn't even look that different to them. Third, finally, if you really need seer more than Dominus it's trivial to convert him into one. Replace head, cut off bottom to make him 'human' sized, done. Converting into other direction is far harder. There is literally zero appeal in seers. The only reason GW started to put them into boxes is to price gouge the new players who need Dominus, if only because higher points tag actually helps them field legal army. No one besides min-maxing wombo-combos with big collection has any need for seer, and these types are the last people who should be considered for starter box...

I've got a reasonable amount of admech but having seen that the transport has disappeared in the transition from start collecting to combat patrol box I've just ordered 2 more of the SC boxes. More skitarii for weapon options and the possibility of themed ranger or vanguard forces are always welcome and I'll probably make one of the HQs into a genestealer cult HQ.

I'll probably also grab a CP box on release too as it has at least £80 of models I want.

I think either box makes a good option for a new player, they both have big discounts and don't include any special characters that you wouldn't want duplicates of.

I've just seen the dice leaked images and whilst nothing special it'll be good to have some so I'll probably try to grab a few packs when the pre-orders go up.

Edit:
Dice pics here https://spruesandbrews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/spruesandbrews.com/2021/04/24/adeptus-mechanicus-combat-patrol-and-dice-spotted/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=16193474403897&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fspruesandbrews.com%2F2021%2F04%2F24%2Fadeptus-mechanicus-combat-patrol-and-dice-spotted%2F

Somebody with some know how can direct link to the image.

 Irbis wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
It already has about 30% discount. You really think gw is going to give it bigger? 127.5 for 85. If you think gw wouldnt add up to price i got island to sell for you.

Well, seeing past boxes had 50% off, yes, I expected them to keep doing so, especially when they already killed attractiveness of 'starter' boxes by squashing the impulse buy appeal. Especially seeing they don't even keep the 25 CP promise. Silly me

 CMLR wrote:
Not to be pessimistic, but I'm very afraid of what this could mean for the Tau CP. The current SC! is basically the best one in the 40K range and it's base 19 PL already.

I was mildly optimistic after DE, but that was obviously just a fluke seeing they had someone pushing them hard in both mini and rule department. Expect 10 minis, like DA box, they will probably throw in stealth suits, double price, and call it a day...

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
From a more seasoned player, I like the box more, as I couldn't want another Dominus

Dunno why people keep saying this when it just makes no sense. First, Dominus is more expensive, so the box would be more attractive with him. Second, they didn't run any boxes with Dominus for years now so no new player is going to have him, and big mini would be more appealing to someone starting than a mook who can be easily converted from a Skitarii and doesn't even look that different to them. Third, finally, if you really need seer more than Dominus it's trivial to convert him into one. Replace head, cut off bottom to make him 'human' sized, done. Converting into other direction is far harder. There is literally zero appeal in seers. The only reason GW started to put them into boxes is to price gouge the new players who need Dominus, if only because higher points tag actually helps them field legal army. No one besides min-maxing wombo-combos with big collection has any need for seer, and these types are the last people who should be considered for starter box...

You did read the part where I said " As a more seasoned player " yeah ? If GW wanted to make it a better savings, they would, they did not. However you can't also over look that one of each troop box is a good idea for a new player. I don't really think its an amazing box. To their credit though, they may have gotten some requests to use a different HQ unit now and then as the Dominus was all over for awhile.

Though honestly I don't think Ad mech is an army a new player would be steered to with how costly it can be for them so not sure how much milking they will do with the Dominus. Even before it was more expensive I'd seen a good number of new Ad mech players burn out when the cost mounted to high for the fun they would have with them.That experience is of course anecdotal but I can't imagine it hasn't happened to fresh players with them and other such factions around more than just my area. Some of these forces are stupid expensive to really flesh out to be functional.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'll say as well, the dice look nice, but I am sure they'll cost so much they won't feel nice. We will see I suppose.

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
I'll say as well, the dice look nice, but I am sure they'll cost so much they won't feel nice. We will see I suppose.

There are two things that could make me buy dice: The symbol of the Inquisition, and the symbol the Adeptus Mechanicus. I fear I won't be able to resist these.

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
You did read the part where I said " As a more seasoned player " yeah ?

Look who you're talking to?

Dice image, in case anyone doesn't want to have to click through to Sprues & Brews.

They're very RED.

Also there's that big, weird exoskeletally equipped Techpriest again!

Well yeah, it’s the codex cover.

Look you, the point is that it's still a weird dang thing to see!

Kataphron box leaks! breachers have a 2+ and destroyers a 3+

https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/n7ufy0/kataphron_boxed_rules/

Quite nice dice - good and legible.

As an aside, given we're in May, should the thread title get an update?

 Dysartes wrote:
Quite nice dice - good and legible.

As an aside, given we're in May, should the thread title get an update?

Just replace April with a question mark, since Vampires are up next for some reason. Bit of breathing room for my wallet at least.

Vampires killed the ad mech !!!

That said, I'm really on the ropes about the dice. I may just break down and get them, but I know I'll dislike doing so later as they'll be expensive for dice. At least they are easy to read.

Really, really frustrating that they were so dismissive of AdMech during Warhammer Fest while there was a reveal/discussion on a model that literally goes up for preorder on Saturday.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Really, really frustrating that they were so dismissive of AdMech during Warhammer Fest while there was a reveal/discussion on a model that literally goes up for preorder on Saturday.

It’s weird, but the difference is that everything for AdMech is already revealed, while the vampire stuff wasn’t. Still, I was sure it would be AdMech this weekend, and definitely before the Vamps.