Switch Theme:

Is Abomination/Psychic Abomination an Aura?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Do the Abomination/Psychic Abomination abilities for the Culexus and Sisters of Silence count as an aura? Are those abilities still active while they're performing an action?
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Aura ability:
BRB wrote:A rule that is classified as an aura can affect multiple models or units that meet its criteria and are within a set distance of the model it is on [plus some irrelevant stuff]

Psychic Abomination (Sisters of Silence):
War of the Spider wrote:This unit cannot be targeted or affected by psychic powers. When a Psychic test or a Deny the Witch test is taken for an enemy model, subtract 1 from the total for each unit from your army with this ability within 18" of that model (to a maximum of 4).

Abomination {Culexus):
War of the Spider wrote:This model can never be targeted or affected by psychic powers in any way. PSYKER units that are within 18" of any CULEXUS ASSASSINS must subtract 2 from Psychic tests and Denty the Witch tests they take.

They rather unhelpfully worded the text for aura abilities backwards. it says that aura abilities affect multiple models, but does not explicitly state that all abilities that affect multuple models are auras. However, if people want to assume that the the second statement is true then that does seem to imply that both of the abomination abilities are auras.

Yes, that would mean that they could be turned off by performing an action (or some other things). Yes, that is stupid.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/21 15:59:39


8930 points 6800 points 75 points 600 points
2810 points 5740 points 2650 points 3275 points
55 points 640 points 1840 points 435 points
2990 points 700 points 2235 points 1935 points
3460 points 1595 points 2480 points 2895 points
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I think yes and no. The aura abilities in newer (post 9th edition) datasheets clearly identify when an ability is an Aura, but for older datasheets it is not so clear.

I think the first part of "abomination" and "psychic abomination", unable to be targeted by psychic powers, is not an aura ability, so still applies when performing an Action.

The second part, the modifier to psychic tests and deny the witch tests does seem to match the description for an aura ability for the Culexus , so it think this would be classed as an aura and so not work if they are performing an Action.

For Sisters of Silence, I'm not so sure, since the rule specifies that it can stack up to 4 times, whereas the core rules says identically named auras don't stack. It could be an aura with an exemption from the stacking rule, or it might not be an aura since it doesn't match the core rules definition.

Sorry I haven't been more helpful, but I don't think there is a clear answer for this. Best discuss it before the game with your opponent/TO and email GW asking for a FAQ.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/21 15:59:49


 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Aash wrote:
I think yes and no. The aura abilities in newer (post 9th edition) datasheets clearly identify when an ability is an Aura, but for older datasheets it is not so clear.


Citation please. Where in the rules does it say that (aura) is an aura ability ?

The definition of an aura ability is found in the core rules, pg. 202.

6. ABILITIES
Many units have one or more special abilities; these will be described here.

Aura Abilities
Some abilities affect models or units in a given range – these are aura abilities. A model with an aura ability is always within range of its effect. The effects of multiple, identically named aura abilities are not cumulative (i.e. if a unit is within range of two models with the same aura ability, that aura ability only applies to the unit once).


According to this definition above both abomination and psychic abomination are aura abilities.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 p5freak wrote:
Aash wrote:
I think yes and no. The aura abilities in newer (post 9th edition) datasheets clearly identify when an ability is an Aura, but for older datasheets it is not so clear.


Citation please. Where in the rules does it say that (aura) is an aura ability ?

The definition of an aura ability is found in the core rules, pg. 202.

6. ABILITIES
Many units have one or more special abilities; these will be described here.

Aura Abilities
Some abilities affect models or units in a given range – these are aura abilities. A model with an aura ability is always within range of its effect. The effects of multiple, identically named aura abilities are not cumulative (i.e. if a unit is within range of two models with the same aura ability, that aura ability only applies to the unit once).



According to this definition above both abomination and psychic abomination are aura abilities.


The first part of both abomination and psychic abomination don't match the definition of aura abilities though. The immunity to psychic powers only applies to the unit itself. If the datasheets separated the immunity to psychic powers and the modifier to psykers into 2 separate abilities, then I think it would be much more clear whether or not the ability is an aura. Also, the description "identically named aura abilities are not cumulative " doesn't match with the rules for Psychic Abomination, which I feel confuses the issue.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/03/21 16:55:56


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Yeah it's definitely strange. If we want to say those abilities are indeed auras, does that mean if they get shut off for whatever reason that means they can get targets and affected by psychic powers even if by definition that part of the ability would not fit the definition of an aura? Seems kinda silly imo. Goonhammer not too long ago did a ruleshammer article about aura abilities and RAW there are indeed abilities that would classify as auras that do not have (Aura) attached to their name.

Link to article: https://www.goonhammer.com/ruleshammer-march-12th-2021-auras-fast-dice-and-dense-cover/

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/03/21 17:08:00


 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 p5freak wrote:
Aura Abilities
Some abilities affect models or units in a given range – these are aura abilities. A model with an aura ability is always within range of its effect. The effects of multiple, identically named aura abilities are not cumulative (i.e. if a unit is within range of two models with the same aura ability, that aura ability only applies to the unit once).

According to this definition above both abomination and psychic abomination are aura abilities.

Not necessarily. Like I mentioned, the wording is bad. All auras can affect multiple models based on range, but can we be sure that all abilities that affect multiple models based on range are auras?

8930 points 6800 points 75 points 600 points
2810 points 5740 points 2650 points 3275 points
55 points 640 points 1840 points 435 points
2990 points 700 points 2235 points 1935 points
3460 points 1595 points 2480 points 2895 points
 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

 Bilge Rat wrote:

Not necessarily. Like I mentioned, the wording is bad. All auras can affect multiple models based on range, but can we be sure that all abilities that affect multiple models based on range are auras?


Yes, we can be sure, because thats the definition of an aura ability.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 p5freak wrote:
 Bilge Rat wrote:

Not necessarily. Like I mentioned, the wording is bad. All auras can affect multiple models based on range, but can we be sure that all abilities that affect multiple models based on range are auras?

Yes, we can be sure, because thats the definition of an aura ability.

By your reasoning a goose must be a duck because it fits the definition of a duck.
Oxford Languages wrote:Duck: a waterbird with a broad blunt bill, short legs, webbed feet, and a waddling gait.


8930 points 6800 points 75 points 600 points
2810 points 5740 points 2650 points 3275 points
55 points 640 points 1840 points 435 points
2990 points 700 points 2235 points 1935 points
3460 points 1595 points 2480 points 2895 points
 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 Bilge Rat wrote:
Spoiler:
 p5freak wrote:
 Bilge Rat wrote:

Not necessarily. Like I mentioned, the wording is bad. All auras can affect multiple models based on range, but can we be sure that all abilities that affect multiple models based on range are auras?

Yes, we can be sure, because thats the definition of an aura ability.

By your reasoning a goose must be a duck because it fits the definition of a duck.
Oxford Languages wrote:Duck: a waterbird with a broad blunt bill, short legs, webbed feet, and a waddling gait.

Actually geese have a Notched bill, not a broad bill.

But what does that have to do with 40k?

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Yes their is a definition either it meets the definition or it doesn't
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 DeathReaper wrote:

Actually geese have a Notched bill, not a broad bill.

Oxford Languages wrote:Goose: a large waterbird with a long neck, short legs, webbed feet, and a short broad bill. Generally geese are larger than ducks and have longer necks and shorter bills.

I was incorrect about auras though, as I foolishly assumed that GW would have a consistent definition for the same term in the main rules text and in the glossary. I just noticed that that is not the case, so the alternate definition is clearer

8930 points 6800 points 75 points 600 points
2810 points 5740 points 2650 points 3275 points
55 points 640 points 1840 points 435 points
2990 points 700 points 2235 points 1935 points
3460 points 1595 points 2480 points 2895 points
 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






I would say no its not an aura for the Sisters of Silence but yes towards the culexus.

It never actually affects multiple models at the same time.

It only affects a single model who is casting a psychic power and within range of the ability.

Then it affects the next single model who is casting a psychic power and so on.


If it stated something like "At the start of each psychic phase, any psycher within 18" of this model receive a -1 to cast or deny" then it would be more like an aura.


JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-PLCIKYCABW8PG 
   
Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch




dorset

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I would say no its not an aura for the Sisters of Silence but yes towards the culexus.

It never actually affects multiple models at the same time.

It only affects a single model who is casting a psychic power and within range of the ability.

Then it affects the next single model who is casting a psychic power and so on.


If it stated something like "At the start of each psychic phase, any psycher within 18" of this model receive a -1 to cast or deny" then it would be more like an aura.



ok, but that same logic could be applied to any model or unit in range of a aura. its just a marine shooting while in range of a buffing captain....then its his buddy, shooting in range of a buffing captain, etc.

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

Both of these abilities are two part abilities. My inclination is therefore they are not aura abilities since they have parts that meet the definition of an aura ability and parts that do not meet the definition.

At the risk of bringing up a conceptual argument, a square is a rectangle and a parallelogram. That doesn't make a parallelogram a square. Similarly, part of the rule meeting the requirements to be an aura doesn't mean it is an aura if part of the rule doesn't meet the requirements.
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 alextroy wrote:
Both of these abilities are two part abilities. My inclination is therefore they are not aura abilities since they have parts that meet the definition of an aura ability and parts that do not meet the definition.

At the risk of bringing up a conceptual argument, a square is a rectangle and a parallelogram. That doesn't make a parallelogram a square. Similarly, part of the rule meeting the requirements to be an aura doesn't mean it is an aura if part of the rule doesn't meet the requirements.
But on the other side of things, I can see where they would call these aura's because of the keyword thing for units.

If a single model of a unit has a keyword, then the whole unit has that keyword.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

But Aura isn't a keyword and the rules for keywords explicitly note that a unit that any models with a keyword are considered to have that keyword. You can't really generalize that onto a completely separate rule that has nothing to do with keywords.
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 alextroy wrote:
But Aura isn't a keyword and the rules for keywords explicitly note that a unit that any models with a keyword are considered to have that keyword. You can't really generalize that onto a completely separate rule that has nothing to do with keywords.
Yes you can, since the keyword rule is arbitrary, and if one has it they all have it.

Same could be said of aura's, if part of the rule is an aura, then it is an aura ability.

YMMV though, and it is not 100% clear.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I think it's definitely a weird grey area since part of the ability doesn't meet the definition of an aura while the other does so it's like, do you shut the whole thing down because part of it sounds like an aura or none of it because the whole ability isn't technically an aura or do you do this weird middle ground and only disable the aura part (which is probably not how shut off aura abilities work)? I'll probably gonna bring it up with the TOs and see what they judge.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K You Make Da Call
Go to: