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 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Well, now it's back down to just 800 PPM, so......

That's actually not so bad. Assuming the board size and stats make it worth it. Its still painfully high for a 2-3,000 point game but it's not ridiculously impossible to field with a 2HQ 3 Troop list.

A stompa is more expensive points wise and has a plastic kit.

At 800 this SM flyer can definitely fit into a 2000 points list.

Breton wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Well, now it's back down to just 800 PPM, so......

That's actually not so bad. Assuming the board size and stats make it worth it. Its still painfully high for a 2-3,000 point game but it's not ridiculously impossible to field with a 2HQ 3 Troop list.

At 30 T8 2+ wounds it's tougher than a Fellblade, and all weapons options are "free". Thunderhawk Heavy Cannon is 2d6 S8, AP-2, Dd3+2 Blast, while Turbo Laser Destructor is Heavy 3, S16, AP-5, D6. Then you get 2 lascannons 4 twin heavy bolters, and your choice of cluster bombs or helllstrike missiles. Definitely viable for Onslaught if the board is big enough. It's a big un.

Edit: It's also the only Classic Marines unit I'm aware of that can transport primaris.

 Blackie wrote:
A stompa is more expensive points wise and has a plastic kit.

At 800 this SM flyer can definitely fit into a 2000 points list.

Fit, yes, fit well not so much. A stompa carries presumably one unit (20) of cheapish boys. This thing fills up on 3 units (30) of moderate marines. But yeah, it was laughably bad at 1800 or whatever points it was you had to be running 4K or better to fill it and have anything left on the board - still at 800 it turns into a fun little fighter/bomber (depending on the stats)

No one runs a stompa with a unit inside, except maybe a Big mek with KFF as it's the only way to give a 5++ to the big guy ("wholly whithin" crap). Or maybe 10 gretchins, just because that's 50 points of obj sec stuff. That flyer should definitely be played empty, and it has the firepower to justify its cost. I don't think there are even that many SM models that actually need a ride.

Considering how powerful is the SM codex at casual levels I don't see any real issues for bringing a thunderhawk to the table. The stompa is way way harder to fit, even in friendly games. We're talking about the absolute worst unit, top of the gak .

Of course there's nothing competitive here, but I don't think there's a single unit in the entire 40k universe that costs more than 500 points and it's also competitive.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Breton wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Well, now it's back down to just 800 PPM, so......

That's actually not so bad. Assuming the board size and stats make it worth it. Its still painfully high for a 2-3,000 point game but it's not ridiculously impossible to field with a 2HQ 3 Troop list.

At 30 T8 2+ wounds it's tougher than a Fellblade, and all weapons options are "free". Thunderhawk Heavy Cannon is 2d6 S8, AP-2, Dd3+2 Blast, while Turbo Laser Destructor is Heavy 3, S16, AP-5, D6. Then you get 2 lascannons 4 twin heavy bolters, and your choice of cluster bombs or helllstrike missiles. Definitely viable for Onslaught if the board is big enough. It's a big un.

Edit: It's also the only Classic Marines unit I'm aware of that can transport primaris.

The Sokar Stormbird can carry Primaris as well. I was unsurprised the Mastodon couldn't as it is meant to be a legit Heresy era relic, but so is the Sokar pattern Stormbird so it's just a little bit daft in terms of consistency. Though, I wouldn't fully be surprised if it was a design aesthetic based decision, with Primaris not using any tracked tanks. Shame, I'd buy a Mastodon if my Primaris could use it, I'm not buying it just for display.

 Blackie wrote:

Considering how powerful is the SM codex at casual levels

That's kind of my point. Its biggest draw is as a "Narrative Play" kind of thing. People who want to recreate - or alternately create as every freakin book with a Thunderhawk I read has the Thunderhawk crash - some of the stuff they read. A small force (the rest of your army) holding out until the Thunderhawk drops in the reinforcements (3 squads and an HQ or so). Then the Thunderhawk flies high cover, while they reinforce. You can play with four toys, or one Thunderhawk. Most of us will pick the four toys to get the variety and quantity.

To make huge flyers like Thunderhawk more usable in a game they should have an alternate datasheet for a landed version that was effectively just a fortification. It could be much fewer points and wouldn't involve the hassle of moving a gigantic model on a flightstand awkwardly on a table far too small for it.

 Insectum7 wrote:
It means they're finally making the plastic Thunderhawk!

/joke

Maybe they broke their last clock

 Crimson wrote:
To make huge flyers like Thunderhawk more usable in a game they should have an alternate datasheet for a landed version that was effectively just a fortification. It could be much fewer points and wouldn't involve the hassle of moving a gigantic model on a flightstand awkwardly on a table far too small for it.

The first thing I thought of was the original metal Thunderhawks, and "It's not physically possible to put that on a flying stand". And then I realized they make a resin one now, but it's still a "GW model supplied without a base." So if you put it on a flying stand...

Just thinking about the absurdity of the metal Thunderhawk on a flying stand....

^The old pics of the full Ultramarine chapter all painted up show a couple of the metal Thundercats on custom stands. (Large custom stands )

Plastic Thunderhawks would sell like hot cakes.

Yes they’d be impractical gaming wise, but I’m pretty sure every SM collector would want one.

It would be a huge kit though.

 General Kroll wrote:
Plastic Thunderhawks would sell like hot cakes.

Yes they’d be impractical gaming wise, but I’m pretty sure every SM collector would want one.

It would be a huge kit though.

In my dreams they hand it off to the guys that make top of the line gundam kits...

 Insectum7 wrote:
^The old pics of the full Ultramarine chapter all painted up show a couple of the metal Thundercats on custom stands. (Large custom stands )

Is this what you are talking about?

^That's the one!

Where did that come from?

TinyLegions wrote:
Where did that come from?

The Ultramarine chapter? Games Day many, many years ago - every retail store had to paint up a squad or two.

beast_gts wrote:

TinyLegions wrote:
Where did that come from?

The Ultramarine chapter? Games Day many, many years ago - every retail store had to paint up a squad or two.

The picture is from the inside front cover of the 3rd ed SM codex. And maybe other places, but I know it’s there.

So these were labelled as the Games Day display but looks more like a store:

 Nevelon wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

TinyLegions wrote:
Where did that come from?

The Ultramarine chapter? Games Day many, many years ago - every retail store had to paint up a squad or two.

The picture is from the inside front cover of the 3rd ed SM codex. And maybe other places, but I know it’s there.

I remember originally seeing it in a White Dwarf.

There was a brief time when you could order a Space Marine Chapter through mail order too. If you had a White Dwarf subscription you got these extra product pamphlets from time to time, and it was in one of those iirc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

beast_gts wrote:
So these were labelled as the Games Day display but looks more like a store:

Spoiler:

baller!

So how do those old metal Thunderhawks compare in size to the newer FW ones, and the Storm Raven plastic kit?

 General Kroll wrote:
So how do those old metal Thunderhawks compare in size to the newer FW ones, and the Storm Raven plastic kit?

Bit smaller than the FW one, considerably bigger than a Storm Raven.

Weighs about as much as a boat anchor, so way waaay heavier than either. Wich has always made me suspicious of the UM Chapter pics where you see them on those flight stands and canted at some extreme angles (look at that one on the left!). Something is going on there. 1) doctored photo? 2) Those Hawks metal? 3) Those flight stands have to be bolted to the display board or secured somehow. Because that one on the left? It's not freestanding at that angle....

^Heh, the base could have just been a 10 lb weight.

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Heh, the base could have just been a 10 lb weight.

That's what I am thinking, and my guess is that the stem of that stand is like a steel pipe.