Author |
Message |
|
|
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
|
2021/06/15 15:05:00
Subject: Kragnos and beastmen?
|
|
Liche Priest Hierophant
|
While they are not introspective or philosophical beings I think it is realistic to say they are induviduallistic with a strong sence of what they want. One huge gesture from Kragnos or Gorkamorka offering an alternative powersource for them could certainly sway some of them in destructions favor. If GW permits it so.
|
|
|
|
|
2021/06/15 15:43:06
Subject: Re:Kragnos and beastmen?
|
|
Lieutenant General
|
That's not going to happen either...
Though their primal motives often align, the Beasts of Chaos are unlike the servants of the Ruinous Powers. Where those god-following daemons and mortals are driven to extend the domains of the various Dark Gods into the Mortal Realms, the Beasts of Chaos are not beholden to deities, and only entreat with them on rare occasions. Instead, they seek to blend the Mortal Realms and the Realm of Chaos into a single anarchic whole, eroding the divisions that separate creatures, worlds and even gods, until all of existence is reduced to a lawless primordial wilderness.
|
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
|
|
|
2021/06/15 16:54:43
Subject: Kragnos and beastmen?
|
|
Liche Priest Hierophant
|
"eroding the divisions that separate creatures, worlds and even gods, until all of existence is reduced to a lawless primordial wilderness." what exactly are the destruction forces about then? Reusing everything to pebbles in general, but nothing further? Ogors think of themselves as the ensymes of Gorkamorka destroying the Realms. This is a very poorly written overlapp between the factions.
|
|
|
|
|
2021/06/15 19:18:39
Subject: Re:Kragnos and beastmen?
|
|
Lieutenant General
|
"... blend(ing) the Mortal Realms and the Realm of Chaos into a single anarchic whole..." is definitely not destruction. Additionally when it says "... Beasts of Chaos are not beholden to deities..." that would include GorkaMorka and Kragnos.
|
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
|
|
|
2021/06/16 05:41:54
Subject: Kragnos and beastmen?
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Platuan4th wrote: Hellebore wrote: Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:In Kragnos’ background, it’s made clear that his people allied with the Dragon races to topple the empires of Dragon Ogres, because they made a pact with Chaos.
Likewise, they’d hunt Beastmen because they’re inherently unnatural. An aberration and affront to Ghur itself.
perfect opportunity for a beastman herd to adopt a self flagellating martyrdom, following a god that thinks they live in sin so they throw themselves into battle to win his redemption.
So a Beastman army that goes against the entirety of Beastman lore where they view themselves as the only true children of Chaos and thus above every other race?
Someone telling Beastmen that they're scum is just going to have Beastmen double down on how hard they'll tear that being apart not make them reflect inwardly. These aren't introspective or philosophical beings.
Why is it reasonable that the elves who considered themselves superior to everyone else, turned to different aligments? Or the dwarfs who look down on everyone?
This is an entirely arbitrary division that prevents beastmen having any agency whatsoever.
|
|
|
|
|
2021/06/16 12:23:47
Subject: Re:Kragnos and beastmen?
|
|
Lieutenant General
|
You think Chaos is going to give it's children the free will that other races have? Beastmen are the mortal personification of Chaos and any other way of thinking is so alien to them that you will never have anything more than a handful think any differently than the rest of the herd (and those that do are most likely being influenced by one of the Dark Powers for some nefarious reason).
|
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
|
|
|
2021/06/17 13:12:41
Subject: Kragnos and beastmen?
|
|
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Hellebore wrote: Platuan4th wrote: Hellebore wrote: Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:In Kragnos’ background, it’s made clear that his people allied with the Dragon races to topple the empires of Dragon Ogres, because they made a pact with Chaos.
Likewise, they’d hunt Beastmen because they’re inherently unnatural. An aberration and affront to Ghur itself.
perfect opportunity for a beastman herd to adopt a self flagellating martyrdom, following a god that thinks they live in sin so they throw themselves into battle to win his redemption.
So a Beastman army that goes against the entirety of Beastman lore where they view themselves as the only true children of Chaos and thus above every other race?
Someone telling Beastmen that they're scum is just going to have Beastmen double down on how hard they'll tear that being apart not make them reflect inwardly. These aren't introspective or philosophical beings.
Why is it reasonable that the elves who considered themselves superior to everyone else, turned to different aligments? Or the dwarfs who look down on everyone?
This is an entirely arbitrary division that prevents beastmen having any agency whatsoever.
There's a massive difference between feeling superior and feeling so above other races that they're nothing but victims, sacrifices, and food to you. Elves and Dwarved aren't exactly known for their genocidal tendencies.
And there's entirely an argument to be made that Beastmen don't have their own agency in AoS, their own will being bent to the greater will of the Warherd.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/17 13:14:34
|
|
|
|
2021/06/26 16:57:39
Subject: Kragnos and beastmen?
|
|
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
|
Niiai wrote:"eroding the divisions that separate creatures, worlds and even gods, until all of existence is reduced to a lawless primordial wilderness." what exactly are the destruction forces about then? Reusing everything to pebbles in general, but nothing further? Ogors think of themselves as the ensymes of Gorkamorka destroying the Realms. This is a very poorly written overlapp between the factions.
For BoC the destruction they cause is a means by which they can bring about their end goal. For Destruction, the destruction IS the goal. They aren't destroying things so they can achieve a specific thing; the act of Destruction is what they do and neither needs nor has any rationale.
|
Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
|
|
|
2021/06/26 17:56:51
Subject: Kragnos and beastmen?
|
|
Liche Priest Hierophant
|
How are they different? Do Destruction secretly work for chaos but do not know it?
|
|
|
|
|
2021/06/26 20:11:57
Subject: Kragnos and beastmen?
|
|
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps
|
Technically speaking, everybody works for chaos, but most likely aren't aware of it.
|
|
|
|
|
2021/06/29 22:58:19
Subject: Kragnos and beastmen?
|
|
Preparing the Invasion of Terra
|
Rihgu wrote:Technically speaking, everybody works for chaos, but most likely aren't aware of it.
I think there's a difference between "working for" and "getting caught up in schemes laid by Tzeencht/the Great Horned Rat". A battle between a Stormhost and an Ogor tribe isn't going to benefit Khorne because the deaths aren't dedicated to it.
As for BoC, I never thought they were Chaos until AoS came out and I started looking into their background. They seem like they would be a Destruction faction from their beastliness and a general need to burn everything but then again the opposite of Order is Chaos and the BoC definitely seek to make things chaotic.
|
|
|
|
|