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What was more cringey, Star Wars episode 8 or 9?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in ca
Dipping With Wood Stain






So I’m either a fan or a ‘toxic neckbeard whiner’ because I don’t like the new trilogy?
That’s weird, because I was a fan of Star Wars until the prequel trilogy ruined it. The new Disney movies just ruined it further.

Rogue 1 was the best Star Wars movie made to date. The Mandalorian is an acceptable Star Wars show.

I’ve watched the franchise slowly coast downhill for 44 years when I saw ep 4 for the first time in the theatre.
Ep 1,2,3,7 and 8 were not good movies I n any genre. Especially Star Wars movies. They were good for eye candy and little else. The writing, directing, acting and story were very poorly executed in all of them.
Ep 7 and 8 were bad enough that I have no desire to even watch ep 9. And have given up almost entirely on Disney doing something really good with the IP.

When my kids at age 8 and 10 can’t get through anything newer than the OT, it says a lot about how appealing and well made all the rest of those movies are. If my kids can’t stand a movie and can’t even sit through it for the spectacle?
I think that says more about rabid Star Wars fans than the toxic whining neckbeards.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Oxfordshire

We've had eight pages of passionate and reasonable discussion comparing the relative badness of two movies (though the OP asked about which was more cringy, not which was the worst so we have occasionally strayed).

Let's not let our tempers flare or lose control of our civilites just because one person comes in and tries to troll everyone by slinging insults and breaking rule #1. We're better than that, even if that person isn't.

Back on topic: to cringe is to recoil in either embarasement or in fear of harm. Given that definition, which would you say is more cringe worthy?

For me 8 is the still the more cringy as I was embarrassed at how close it came to doing something fascinating and then completely failing to do the basics of movie making. I feel no embarrassment for 9, only scorn.
   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

I can't really judge episode 9 because I never saw it. I thought 8 was a dumpster fire and it'd never be fixed with 9 and seems like I was right.

As I said 8 was bad but I just stopped giving a crap. I heard mandalorian was good at least or at least halfway decent but i never saw it. I enjoyed rogue one, episode 7 seemed ok but told a similar story to the first series so was forgettable.

For what it's all worth trying to revive a film property with a trilogy decades after the fact usually fails except with James bond for some reason.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/07 05:22:01


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Made in de
Huge Bone Giant






 Henry wrote:
Back on topic: to cringe is to recoil in either embarasement or in fear of harm. Given that definition, which would you say is more cringe worthy?


By that definition I didn't find either movie crngeworthy at all. I was somewhat bored throughout Episode 8 because everything was drawn out too long and it didn't show anything worthwhile. I wanted Episode 9 to get to the point a third way through, and was half asleep by the time they got to the Deathstar. I dimly remember something about Palpi being ALL THE SITH and Rey being ALL THE JEDI (no idea what that nonsense is about), but otherwise I have precious little recollection of the movie's finale. I know there's the Charge of the Light Brigade on the hull of a Star Destroyer, but I know that because it was in the trailer. If you asked me now, I'd swear that wasn't in the movie.

Hardly enough emotion in my response to find it in me to cringe.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I heard mandalorian was good at least or at least halfway decent but i never saw it.


If you enjoyed Rogue One you should probably watch it. It's good in its production values and I find it similarly respectful in slotting in with the established narrative of the original trilogy (and surrounding material as far as I have seen).

In my opinion Mandalorian does a much better job of world building than Episode 7 (with the comparison being they are both set post Endor). The story is smaller scale and closer to the end of the Empire, so nothing that you know of the setting is entirely thrown out and replaced with something new that, as was the case in Episode 7, the movie refuses to depict. Mandalorian isn't concerned with wider galactic politics and only hints at things in a similar fashion as the dissolution of the senate in Episode 4, but unlike Episode 7 Mandalorian doesn't deal with big fate of the galaxy stuff where an explanation of the political landscape and the motivation of large factions is kind of necessary as a backdrop to the conflict. It's self-contained enough to not need much of a larger galactic background, while adding glimpses of the New Republic and a view of an Imperial remnant that continues the story after Episode 6 a lot more naturally than the 30 year jump with an effectively new setting Episode 7 presented.

You'll get more out the show if you saw Clone Wars and Rebels, though, as the show also picks up the odd thread from those shows. They also both depict Mandalorians of the recent past and give you some context to the titular character and how he fits in.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

 Geifer wrote:


 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I heard mandalorian was good at least or at least halfway decent but i never saw it.


If you enjoyed Rogue One you should probably watch it. It's good in its production values and I find it similarly respectful in slotting in with the established narrative of the original trilogy (and surrounding material as far as I have seen).

In my opinion Mandalorian does a much better job of world building than Episode 7 (with the comparison being they are both set post Endor). The story is smaller scale and closer to the end of the Empire, so nothing that you know of the setting is entirely thrown out and replaced with something new that, as was the case in Episode 7, the movie refuses to depict.


It was great... until... you realised there was zero peril. Honestly I don't understand how any world was subjugated by the Empire as their elite troops are objectively awful.

Rogue One? It demonstrated what happens when a guerrilla force decides to fight a pitched battle. That is, they all die (in space and on the ground). Mandalorian? There is literally never enough Empire soldiers to worry the heroes (apart from when half a dozen are hiding badly at the end of tunnel, despite ten times their number just dying they were apparently scary).
   
Made in de
Huge Bone Giant






Yes, the disrespect for Stormtroopers is real. But it's been like that since 1983 and Mandalorian is hardly any more egregious than other media.

As much as I like Rogue One, Storm Troopers don't actually fare any better there. Stormtroopers are allowed to take down enemy troopers, as they occasionally are in other movies and shows, but even the pinpoint accuracy of Death Troopers fails the instant a protagonist strolls across the open without a care in the world. They just stop hitting.

If that's not something you can look past, I don't know how you'll ever enjoy Star Wars.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






 Geifer wrote:
Yes, the disrespect for Stormtroopers is real. But it's been like that since 1983 and Mandalorian is hardly any more egregious than other media.

As much as I like Rogue One, Storm Troopers don't actually fare any better there. Stormtroopers are allowed to take down enemy troopers, as they occasionally are in other movies and shows, but even the pinpoint accuracy of Death Troopers fails the instant a protagonist strolls across the open without a care in the world. They just stop hitting.

If that's not something you can look past, I don't know how you'll ever enjoy Star Wars.
On the other hand, maybe this thing from the 70s should get better 50 years later?


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

 Geifer wrote:
Yes, the disrespect for Stormtroopers is real. But it's been like that since 1983 and Mandalorian is hardly any more egregious than other media.

As much as I like Rogue One, Storm Troopers don't actually fare any better there. Stormtroopers are allowed to take down enemy troopers, as they occasionally are in other movies and shows, but even the pinpoint accuracy of Death Troopers fails the instant a protagonist strolls across the open without a care in the world. They just stop hitting.

If that's not something you can look past, I don't know how you'll ever enjoy Star Wars.


They still managed to hit them a few times. Up yours force!

Plus the rebel fighters blew up in pleasing numbers in space and din;t last long planet side...
   
Made in de
Huge Bone Giant






 Lance845 wrote:
 Geifer wrote:
Yes, the disrespect for Stormtroopers is real. But it's been like that since 1983 and Mandalorian is hardly any more egregious than other media.

As much as I like Rogue One, Storm Troopers don't actually fare any better there. Stormtroopers are allowed to take down enemy troopers, as they occasionally are in other movies and shows, but even the pinpoint accuracy of Death Troopers fails the instant a protagonist strolls across the open without a care in the world. They just stop hitting.

If that's not something you can look past, I don't know how you'll ever enjoy Star Wars.
On the other hand, maybe this thing from the 70s should get better 50 years later?


But can it?

Consider the A-Team, a show from the Eighties that had a team of ex-special forces guys who couldn't hit for gak. They didn't shoot up their opponents quickly and efficiently even in situations where it would have saved them from getting in a tight spot, which as I seem to remember would have been relevant a couple of times. How believable is that? Exactly. Yet that's how it was portrayed, for reasons I'm sure had nothing to do with in setting plausibility. Then a couple of years ago we got an A-Team movie remake where the team of ex-special forces guys actually was very good at shooting up their opponents and certainly didn't hold back. Presumably because the producers, very wisely so, assumed they couldn't sell special forces that can't shoot for gak to an audience anymore.

What's that got to do with Star Wars? The A-Team existed and worked in the Eighties as a TV show that was followed by jack all for a quarter of a century before someone dug it out for a movie. I remember there were people that noted that specific departure from the original and disapproved, but there was no notable buzz about it. Because there was no notable A-Team fan presence. With Star Wars being as big as it is, with near continuous media presence and new content built on the fateful decisions from (nearly) fifty years ago, and several generations of fans that have grown up with those specific depictions, some things are so cemented that I doubt any producer would have the balls to look at them and question the validity of the basic principle.

I'd love to see Stormtroopers redeemed, but in practical terms I think it's too late for that. I guess there's always games where basic game design and balance dictate that Stormtroopers cannot universally suck, but movies and shows? I don't think I'll see that change in my lifetime.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
 Geifer wrote:
Yes, the disrespect for Stormtroopers is real. But it's been like that since 1983 and Mandalorian is hardly any more egregious than other media.

As much as I like Rogue One, Storm Troopers don't actually fare any better there. Stormtroopers are allowed to take down enemy troopers, as they occasionally are in other movies and shows, but even the pinpoint accuracy of Death Troopers fails the instant a protagonist strolls across the open without a care in the world. They just stop hitting.

If that's not something you can look past, I don't know how you'll ever enjoy Star Wars.


They still managed to hit them a few times. Up yours force!

Plus the rebel fighters blew up in pleasing numbers in space and din;t last long planet side...


Navy pilots never had the same Ewok trauma as Stormtroopers.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain





Bristol (UK)

The sad part is the first time we see Storm Troopers they clean house. They quickly and professionally sweep through a corvette. This meshes well with Obi-wan telling us that they're crack shots, leaving precise and professional blaster marks.

Once the heroes get involved we see that accuracy disappear, but that's largely justified by the fact that they were ordered to let them escape.

It's seems more like people forgot that reality and the memes replaced the reality.
   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

You know what bugged me about star wars? In Empire strikes back Han told a rebel dude "I'll see you in hell!" I guess hell exists in this galaxy alongside force ghosts.

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Battleship Captain





Bristol (UK)

Could just be a figure of speech, I'm an atheist and I still say stuff like that.
When it comes to Star Wars canon that's not what bothers me much!

How come everyone can just communicate seamlessly with each other? There's aliens and droids which speak in nothing but simple beeps or guttural noises yet they appear to be able to convey and be understood by everyone just fine. Even someone that seems to have lived a very sheltered life on a farm in the sandy arse end of nowhere can understand these things fine.

   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





8 was more cringe-inducing than 9, but that also had to do with the level of expectation at that point in time. 7 was a rehash but at least it set up some interesting story beats and characters. When all that lead to nothing in 8, and was replaced by nonsense, it was a far greater shock than watching 9, where expectations were very low to begin with.

In a vacuum, 8 takes the cake, too. The casino planet, Rose's spectacular statement after saving Finn, the whole plot around Holdo and her justification for what she did and did not do, Leia surviving space, Luke trying to murder his nephew and turning into a defeatist, Snoke being a complete moron – there is just too much to ignore.
   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Could just be a figure of speech, I'm an atheist and I still say stuff like that.
When it comes to Star Wars canon that's not what bothers me much!

How come everyone can just communicate seamlessly with each other? There's aliens and droids which speak in nothing but simple beeps or guttural noises yet they appear to be able to convey and be understood by everyone just fine. Even someone that seems to have lived a very sheltered life on a farm in the sandy arse end of nowhere can understand these things fine.



I meant more the lack of universe consistency. I'm an atheist too but that God stuff doesn't bother me anymore. There are far bigger annoying things to me now.

Fiction has some weird things in it. For instance what do robots need to do bounty hunting for? Do they have a family to feed somehow? I suppose sentience would matter here. Assassin droids make more sense if robots lack sentience. You tell em to kill somebody and they do it and report back in.

That's a good point on the beeps and growls thing. Perhaps it was like dogs somehow being able to communicate via barks in tv like lassie or Timmy falling down a well or something. Who knows? Star wars is kind of an old series at this point.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/07 17:01:15


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Norn Queen






To be fair, the vast majority of the time when Luke is talking to and understands R2 he is in his x wing. Its not like he can hear R2 from the cockpit. There must be a HUD in the x wing console that reads out messages from the astromech and a mic that the astromuch is plugged into so it can hear the pilot.

That doesn't explain why an astromech needs to speak in beeps to begin with. If c3po can speak 6 million forms of communication and have most of its body be made up of mechanics for moving then why shouldn't an astromech have enough harddrive for something other than morse code.

For that matter, why have translator robots at all. The other droids clearly have such advanced programing that they should have plenty of room for plenty of languages including by default galactic common.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/07 18:39:38



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

Wait. Wasnt the only worthwhile time c3p0s translator skills came into use was return of the jedi for jabba the hutt?

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Leader of the Sept







It might be an Imperial code.

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

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MN (Currently in WY)

Also it was pretty useful with the Ewoks.

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Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

 Lance845 wrote:
To be fair, the vast majority of the time when Luke is talking to and understands R2 he is in his x wing. Its not like he can hear R2 from the cockpit. There must be a HUD in the x wing console that reads out messages from the astromech and a mic that the astromuch is plugged into so it can hear the pilot.

That doesn't explain why an astromech needs to speak in beeps to begin with. If c3po can speak 6 million forms of communication and have most of its body be made up of mechanics for moving then why shouldn't an astromech have enough harddrive for something other than morse code.

For that matter, why have translator robots at all. The other droids clearly have such advanced programing that they should have plenty of room for plenty of languages including by default galactic common.


I assume the reason is not technological but sociological. Out of universe, why are little droids all beepy? To seem cute, quirky, non-threatening? Perhaps that is also the reason in-universe. The more expendable droids sound more like machines or pets and less like people. There are classes of droids who are treated more like people than the laborers and machine-interfacers, and they have humanoid speech. Perhaps this is all baggage from the way droids are treated by the galaxy, as sapient yet disposable slaves.

We’ve seen an Astromech droid capable of humanoid speech—the same astromech droid who upgraded herself to have limbs and a gender role, the only droid who fought for droid rights.

Somewhat related video:





   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




I suspect the thing with the droids is a product of the time (70s) and Lucas' limited imagination when it came to scientific stuff.

Monotask robots (translators, ship repair/accessories, etc) probably fit with the limits of what he thought machines could do.

The 'computers' in the early movies (nearly 100% physical switches or droid screwdriver ports) certainly leave a lot of gaps with even a couple decades worth of computer tech.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Oxfordshire

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I assume the reason is not technological but sociological. Out of universe, why are little droids all beepy? To seem cute, quirky, non-threatening? Perhaps that is also the reason in-universe. The more expendable droids sound more like machines or pets and less like people.

It's reasoning after the fact but that's not half bad. It fits with the astromech droids getting picked off one by one in TPM and R2 beginning to stand out by the humanisation projected by Padme. I wonder if there would be more in the series that would fit this.

On the subject of languages, am I remembering right in Solo that Chewbacca is surprised to learn that Han speaks Wookie?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





So we're done with this one?

Sigh. It was fun while it lasted.

CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. 
   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

 Lance845 wrote:
To be fair, the vast majority of the time when Luke is talking to and understands R2 he is in his x wing. Its not like he can hear R2 from the cockpit. There must be a HUD in the x wing console that reads out messages from the astromech and a mic that the astromuch is plugged into so it can hear the pilot.

That doesn't explain why an astromech needs to speak in beeps to begin with. If c3po can speak 6 million forms of communication and have most of its body be made up of mechanics for moving then why shouldn't an astromech have enough harddrive for something other than morse code.

For that matter, why have translator robots at all. The other droids clearly have such advanced programing that they should have plenty of room for plenty of languages including by default galactic common.


In ESB at least, there is a screen that fills with text as R2 is speaking to him, so there's at least some machine translation happening (the X-wing does have computers running ship stuff - it even has a hyperdrive, just no space for a navicomputer - because the astromech socket allows them to plug one of them in to take that role. They are astrogators as well as mechanics, hence "astro-mech" ).

That said, certain beeping "phrases" were understood in much the same way that certain IT nerds of an age can understand what the myriad beeping noises made by old Pcs mean.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/22 10:29:02


I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Could just be a figure of speech, I'm an atheist and I still say stuff like that.
When it comes to Star Wars canon that's not what bothers me much!

How come everyone can just communicate seamlessly with each other? There's aliens and droids which speak in nothing but simple beeps or guttural noises yet they appear to be able to convey and be understood by everyone just fine. Even someone that seems to have lived a very sheltered life on a farm in the sandy arse end of nowhere can understand these things fine.



Babel fish are an endemic parasite. They get everywhere exposed to the wider galaxy. Hence none on the ewoks as they would have started to catch them after the rebels showed up.

   
 
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