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Oh yeah the totally new pandemic that it's still fine to use as an excuse for shambolic crap like this, how silly of me for forgetting


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It really just serves to demonstrate how bs it is to make your players pay for an annual balance patch but sure, let's just completely let them off because of reasons

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:

I find it hilarious that they've released stinky marines and now egypt marines before standard chaos.

It makes a kind of sense, especially if the rumored Emperor's Children and World Eater books are coming.

These have been "rumored" for ages...

EC and WE are not coming until we see some figures
to herald them.

Togusa wrote:

Billicus wrote:
Nice, buy a book that is 50% just points updates and by the way, those points updates are fething wrong. Well played

In case you haven't heard, there is the virus that has raged unchecked across the planet for over a year now, reaping destruction of lives, economies and trade as it moves from area to area.

They clearly say that these books were supposed to have been out before now and they're telling these players that the points in the book is wrong, so that they do not have to buy the book if they do not want to. That's really dang nice of them to do in my book.

Indeed.

The problem has less to do with Covid and more to do with supply chains. When the cost of a shipping container goes from $2,000 to $20,000, some leeway is deserved.

So the big Gk hypocrite gets a new model wielding his demon sword but shame on the Relictors chapter for also using the weapons of chaos against the enemy..

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Not sure how I feel about Thousand Sons getting another HQ, that's basically the only slot that book already has plenty of. I was really hoping for a psychic helbrute...

It could just as easily go into elites. We do need more support options.

The article specifically says that it's an HQ model.

dogfender wrote:
So the big Gk hypocrite gets a new model wielding his demon sword but shame on the Relictors chapter for also using the weapons of chaos against the enemy..

The Black Blade of Antwyr must be wielded by a warrior devout and pure of heart, lest the bearer be corrupted by the powerful Daemon bound within.

None less than a Purifier could resist it's corrupting influence. Such is the power of the blade, were it left in a secret armory, it would be discovered and stolen for use against the Emperor. It's a burden, not a trophy.

Relictors got so worked up grabbing Chaos goodies they made war with Inquisitors. Same with the Soul Drinkers. Bad moves don't entitle them to the good stuff.

 techsoldaten wrote:

dogfender wrote:
So the big Gk hypocrite gets a new model wielding his demon sword but shame on the Relictors chapter for also using the weapons of chaos against the enemy..

The Black Blade of Antwyr must be wielded by a warrior devout and pure of heart, lest the bearer be corrupted by the powerful Daemon bound within.

None less than a Purifier could resist it's corrupting influence. Such is the power of the blade, were it left in a secret armory, it would be discovered and stolen for use against the Emperor. It's a burden, not a trophy.

Relictors got so worked up grabbing Chaos goodies they made war with Inquisitors. Same with the Soul Drinkers. Bad moves don't entitle them to the good stuff.

The events of the eye of terror campaign have since been retconned by the gathering storm. Relictors use the artifacts without signs of taint. Having to undergo long periods of fasting, meditation and needing to be among the inner circle ranks.

But yeah, guy is still a hypocrite for using it considering what the GK are all about, pure of heart or not lol.

dogfender wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

dogfender wrote:
So the big Gk hypocrite gets a new model wielding his demon sword but shame on the Relictors chapter for also using the weapons of chaos against the enemy..

The Black Blade of Antwyr must be wielded by a warrior devout and pure of heart, lest the bearer be corrupted by the powerful Daemon bound within.

None less than a Purifier could resist it's corrupting influence. Such is the power of the blade, were it left in a secret armory, it would be discovered and stolen for use against the Emperor. It's a burden, not a trophy.

Relictors got so worked up grabbing Chaos goodies they made war with Inquisitors. Same with the Soul Drinkers. Bad moves don't entitle them to the good stuff.

The events of the eye of terror campaign have since been retconned by the gathering storm. Relictors use the artifacts without signs of taint. Having to undergo long periods of fasting, meditation and needing to be among the inner circle ranks.

But yeah, guy is still a hypocrite for using it considering what the GK are all about, pure of heart or not lol.

Nah. Black Blade is that bad, even if they were retconned the Relictors would promptly fall to Chaos.

Nobility of spirit is the required counterbalance, all the Relictors are is glorified line troops with a Chaos fetish.

WRT using the Blade, Crowe doesn't actually get the benefits of a Daemon Weapon (at least not in recent Codexes.) He never activates it, which might be the difference you're looking for.

@dogfender I think you misunderstood his explanation.


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Billicus wrote:
Oh yeah the totally new pandemic that it's still fine to use as an excuse for shambolic crap like this, how silly of me for forgetting


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It really just serves to demonstrate how bs it is to make your players pay for an annual balance patch but sure, let's just completely let them off because of reasons

He literally just explained how this is not true and you completely ignored it. The only thing being demonstrated here is about you.


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jaredb wrote:
The cover art is phenomenal.

Glad I'm not the only one!

Billicus wrote:
Oh yeah the totally new pandemic that it's still fine to use as an excuse for shambolic crap like this, how silly of me for forgetting


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It really just serves to demonstrate how bs it is to make your players pay for an annual balance patch but sure, let's just completely let them off because of reasons

Sigh some people　have no idea how companies work and think gw just snaps fingers and products appear out of thin air designed, produced and transported.

Snap your fingers and show　how it's done or shut up.

tneva82 wrote:

Billicus wrote:
Oh yeah the totally new pandemic that it's still fine to use as an excuse for shambolic crap like this, how silly of me for forgetting


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It really just serves to demonstrate how bs it is to make your players pay for an annual balance patch but sure, let's just completely let them off because of reasons

Sigh some people　have no idea how companies work and think gw just snaps fingers and products appear out of thin air designed, produced and transported.

Snap your fingers and show　how it's done or shut up.

I'm personally impressed by GW's financials and will gladly pay for "balance patches" to keep them going strong.

It's out of a sense of self interest. I don't want to invest in a hobby that goes away. Thinking back to around 2014, there was a legitimate chance of that happening.

We're fortunate GW is guided by Kevin Roundtree, who is stepping down as CEO and taking a board seat. Hoping the company continues to flourish.

Togusa wrote:

Billicus wrote:
Nice, buy a book that is 50% just points updates and by the way, those points updates are fething wrong. Well played

In case you haven't heard, there is the virus that has raged unchecked across the planet for over a year now, reaping destruction of lives, economies and trade as it moves from area to area.

They clearly say that these books were supposed to have been out before now and they're telling these players that the points in the book is wrong, so that they do not have to buy the book if they do not want to. That's really dang nice of them to do in my book.

Hyperbole come to thy aid ! Yeah that has been happening so maybe they should have ya know, delayed the release of the edition. They could also put out the point changes for free knowing some of it will be wrong, so no they aren't doing anything dang nice at all. They just aren't doing something as dang wrong as when they tried to put out the mini version of the 8th edition rule book without the erratas in it but claiming it was up to date with erratas, have to back track then go silent on it.

That Thousand Sons cover art is simply stunning, my favourite of 9th edition so far. The headdresses with plain blue instead of blue + other colour look magnificent.

TS only getting a single HQ is disappointing but not unexpected. I'll be surprised if GK get any Primaris at all, given GW's past comments on the subject, seems far more likely that Crowe will simply be resized.

Hopefully these are indeed primaris - or at least a scale update. Either one would get me right back into throwing money at GK.

Wonder what the complainers think gw should have done. Since gk/ts books delayed delay this　release further to september? So hurt other factions? Lol. Throw already printed books into bin and produce new version with current point values(ie the ones　in pdf) and...have inferior book when codexes comes out?

Interesting preferences. But then again whiners are whining just for sake of whining

 AngryAngel80 wrote:

Togusa wrote:

Billicus wrote:
Nice, buy a book that is 50% just points updates and by the way, those points updates are fething wrong. Well played

In case you haven't heard, there is the virus that has raged unchecked across the planet for over a year now, reaping destruction of lives, economies and trade as it moves from area to area.

They clearly say that these books were supposed to have been out before now and they're telling these players that the points in the book is wrong, so that they do not have to buy the book if they do not want to. That's really dang nice of them to do in my book.

Hyperbole come to thy aid ! Yeah that has been happening so maybe they should have ya know, delayed the release of the edition. They could also put out the point changes for free knowing some of it will be wrong, so no they aren't doing anything dang nice at all. They just aren't doing something as dang wrong as when they tried to put out the mini version of the 8th edition rule book without the erratas in it but claiming it was up to date with erratas, have to back track then go silent on it.

Yeah, this is more my point - even *if* you somehow think even after a year these challenges are still insurmountable, the point is the right thing for GW to do would be to do anything other than release this dead-on-arrival book and say oh, the book is wrong by the way, please still buy it, here's an errata of the errata of the errata to tide you over til the next fething book


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tneva82 wrote:
Wonder what the complainers think gw should have done. Since gk/ts books delayed delay this　release further to september? So hurt other factions? Lol. Throw already printed books into bin and produce new version with current point values(ie the ones　in pdf) and...have inferior book when codexes comes out?

Yeah, that's it, the second one. Don't release the DOA book. It harms their brand as much as anything to put out such a messy product, so even if you're white knighting the hell out of it you should still be able to appreciate releasing the balance patch WITH a balance patch is a bad move for the brand

tneva82 wrote:
But then again whiners are whining just for sake of whining

Writing off the opinions of everyone you disagree with as "whining for the sake of whining" is pretty bad behaviour. It's also deeply unconvincing as far as arguments go. It does your argument no favours to couch it in a constant refrain of "Anyone who disagrees with me is just complaining for the sake of it!"

Billicus wrote:

 AngryAngel80 wrote:

Togusa wrote:

Billicus wrote:
Nice, buy a book that is 50% just points updates and by the way, those points updates are fething wrong. Well played

In case you haven't heard, there is the virus that has raged unchecked across the planet for over a year now, reaping destruction of lives, economies and trade as it moves from area to area.

They clearly say that these books were supposed to have been out before now and they're telling these players that the points in the book is wrong, so that they do not have to buy the book if they do not want to. That's really dang nice of them to do in my book.

Hyperbole come to thy aid ! Yeah that has been happening so maybe they should have ya know, delayed the release of the edition. They could also put out the point changes for free knowing some of it will be wrong, so no they aren't doing anything dang nice at all. They just aren't doing something as dang wrong as when they tried to put out the mini version of the 8th edition rule book without the erratas in it but claiming it was up to date with erratas, have to back track then go silent on it.

Yeah, this is more my point - even *if* you somehow think even after a year these challenges are still insurmountable, the point is the right thing for GW to do would be to do anything other than release this dead-on-arrival book and say oh, the book is wrong by the way, please still buy it, here's an errata of the errata of the errata to tide you over til the next fething book


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
Wonder what the complainers think gw should have done. Since gk/ts books delayed delay this　release further to september? So hurt other factions? Lol. Throw already printed books into bin and produce new version with current point values(ie the ones　in pdf) and...have inferior book when codexes comes out?

Yeah, that's it, the second one. Don't release the DOA book. It harms their brand as much as anything to put out such a messy product, so even if you're white knighting the hell out of it you should still be able to appreciate releasing the balance patch WITH a balance patch is a bad move for the brand

tneva82 wrote:
But then again whiners are whining just for sake of whining

Writing off the opinions of everyone you disagree with as "whining for the sake of whining" is pretty bad behaviour. It's also deeply unconvincing as far as arguments go. It does your argument no favours to couch it in a constant refrain of "Anyone who disagrees with me is just complaining for the sake of it!"

And since they know half of it is useless, how about helping the community and dropping the price. Show that they are reacting to the pandemic and the delay. It sucks to take a hit on the bottom line, but knowing about the delay and still shipping something inherently flawed is not excusable. If I ordered any other item and it didn't do what it was intended to do the manufacture would provide a replacement or reimbursement for the item. This is effectively a defective item still being sold.

GW should have been able to see the delays in their shipping schedule and production tables and made changes, because COVID is not a new thing.

I'm playing Thousand Sons open at the moment with a Terminator Sorcerer leading a small patrol of horrors, and quite fond of them so it would be nice to have some fancy bits to go with them.

A new HQ, eh? Whats that all about then?

 AngryAngel80 wrote:

Hyperbole come to thy aid ! Yeah that has been happening so maybe they should have ya know, delayed the release of the edition. They could also put out the point changes for free knowing some of it will be wrong, so no they aren't doing anything dang nice at all. They just aren't doing something as dang wrong as when they tried to put out the mini version of the 8th edition rule book without the erratas in it but claiming it was up to date with erratas, have to back track then go silent on it.

I feel like you're confused. Unless you're referencing something different?

They are giving "free" points for TK & GS, because they book went to print and with the upended shipping / software / etc it would be a better idea not to destroy those books for no reason.

tneva82 wrote:
Wonder what the complainers think gw should have done. Since gk/ts books delayed delay this　release further to september? So hurt other factions? Lol. Throw already printed books into bin and produce new version with current point values(ie the ones　in pdf) and...have inferior book when codexes comes out?

Interesting preferences. But then again whiners are whining just for sake of whining

It’s pointless too argue with the “I’m never happy with anything people”. I agree the whiners will whine no matter what GW does. Sad really. Also too all the complainers about how useless GW is and how bad their ideas are. Where is all your games your clearly are experts on developing and manufacturing and distributing?

My personal experience attempting (and failing) to kickstart aside, there's more successful attempts than mine that have documented how difficult actual production can be: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian-protocol/obsidian-protocol-mecha-miniature-wargame/posts

tneva82 wrote:
Wonder what the complainers think gw should have done. Since gk/ts books delayed delay this　release further to september? So hurt other factions? Lol. Throw already printed books into bin and produce new version with current point values(ie the ones　in pdf) and...have inferior book when codexes comes out?

Interesting preferences. But then again whiners are whining just for sake of whining

They could, and hear me out here, have continued making epubs and just released those on time with hardbounds coming when available?

People would lose their mind if GW did that. Can you imagine the complaining about that.

dogboy311 wrote:
Where is all your games your clearly are experts on developing and manufacturing and distributing?

This is a flawed way of thinking. For example, a person does not have to be a civil engineer to point out obvious flaws in a badly-built bridge.

I don't mind disruptions in their release schedule, but these field manuals in general were a bad idea. They flop points back and forth and expect customers to pay for it. Wraithguard are a prime example.

Mchagen wrote:

dogboy311 wrote:
Where is all your games your clearly are experts on developing and manufacturing and distributing?

This is a flawed way of thinking. For example, a person does not have to be a civil engineer to point out obvious flaws in a badly-built bridge.

I don't mind disruptions in their release schedule, but these field manuals in general were a bad idea. They flop points back and forth and expect customers to pay for it. Wraithguard are a prime example.

You made a terrible example that totally ignores how complex things like bridges are. Perhaps you might see a crack and call the bridge unsafe, but you have no clue where the actual issue is.

The field manuals are absolutely necessary to keep things from settling.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Mchagen wrote:

dogboy311 wrote:
Where is all your games your clearly are experts on developing and manufacturing and distributing?

This is a flawed way of thinking. For example, a person does not have to be a civil engineer to point out obvious flaws in a badly-built bridge.

I don't mind disruptions in their release schedule, but these field manuals in general were a bad idea. They flop points back and forth and expect customers to pay for it. Wraithguard are a prime example.

You made a terrible example that totally ignores how complex things like bridges are. Perhaps you might see a crack and call the bridge unsafe, but you have no clue where the actual issue is.

The field manuals are absolutely necessary to keep things from settling.

Weird engineering aside, I'm... really confused as to why you wouldn't want a game ruleset to settle. Editions come fast enough. They could at least be stable and functional for the duration.

Voss wrote:
Weird engineering aside, I'm... really confused as to why you wouldn't want a game ruleset to settle. Editions come fast enough. They could at least be stable and functional for the duration.

Because it won't settle as long as codexes come out and kinks need to be ironed out.

Then they need to be less kinky and more reliable, not simply passively accepted as a continual failed state with a dozen subsystems per codex with a random array of moving parts.


Lso, the idea that new codexes affect the point costs of old books seems inherently wrong. Its either a blatant admission of codex creep on a scale undreamed of, or the game design process they're using is just inherently wrong.

The points appear to be changing very little. The entire scope of these updates encompasses the missions as well. It is also a good time to encompass the real world feedback from thousands of games - something no playtesting ( open or closed ) would accomplish.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Mchagen wrote:

dogboy311 wrote:
Where is all your games your clearly are experts on developing and manufacturing and distributing?

This is a flawed way of thinking. For example, a person does not have to be a civil engineer to point out obvious flaws in a badly-built bridge.

I don't mind disruptions in their release schedule, but these field manuals in general were a bad idea. They flop points back and forth and expect customers to pay for it. Wraithguard are a prime example.

You made a terrible example that totally ignores how complex things like bridges are. Perhaps you might see a crack and call the bridge unsafe, but you have no clue where the actual issue is.

The field manuals are absolutely necessary to keep things from settling.

So you've made a terrible example out of my 'terrible example?' Where did I say anything about cracks in the bridge? The point is (which you are missing completely), is that a person doesn't need to be in a specific field to make valid criticisms of it.

And no, the field manuals (specifically) are not absolutely necessary to keep things settling.