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2021/09/30 21:37:53
Subject: Still undecided on what resin printer to buy.
Right now they don't really exist for consumer printers. There's two kickstarters running right now from two reputable printer firms to make them and Phrozen might be doing one too (they teased a new printer appearing today with a quick top of product shot but nothing below to tell what kind it is).
Basically its the top end for professional printers; but those run into vast sums of money. Consumer wise they are untested and we don't really know the ins and outs. In theory they should be superior to LCD printers in that the projector setup should last far longer than even monocrome LCD screens and the resolution should be higher than even 4K Screens (even though the projector stated resolution is less the way it transmits the light to the print results in getting more out of less whilst the LCD screens there's more light scatter).
I'd say if you've money to burn jump in now on one of the KS; but otherwise wait until next year and see how they fare in the market. These first ones might also raise issues that are only resolved in latter models/with upgrades/repairs.
One issue that has been raised already with a few of the early photos/videos is that layerlines might be sharper/more firmly defined. However adjustments to the layer height and AA settings and more could resolve that issue.
That said I'd say right now waiting is best unless you've money to burn on a printer that "might" work well or might have some odd quirks.
I do know that Atlas is still working on an LCD printer motherboard and setup so there's every chance that the two technologies could run side by side for a good while. Esp as 4K printers already show really good resolutions.
Thanks. I won’t be able to commit until spring anyways… no stable home just yet but should be able to settle somewhere by then, … tired of living in basically a hotel room in the mountains.
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2021/10/02 10:29:12
Subject: Still undecided on what resin printer to buy.
MDSW wrote: Agree - I believe DLP for the masses in an economic and reliable format is a ways off and what is available now will more than support your needs.
Homestly, the current quality/price range is at a good spot fot the hobbyist. The current printers I have can make smaller details than I can paint anyway >_>
2021/10/15 14:57:56
Subject: Still undecided on what resin printer to buy.
This thread is exactly what I was looking for. I am coming off the fence and contemplating starting out in 3D printing from what I have seen over the past month or two in my research. Elegoo's Mars 3 does interest me a lot, but am hesitant in pulling the trigger on something that I can only use one software company with the current firmware. The talk is that there will be a SDK for other slicer packages, but I would prefer to wait and see on that.
So I started to look around at other companies and found Phrozen which brought up two questions. What do people think of the Phrozen mini 4K? Does the 8K look like it really will make a difference? I ask because the 8K have the same software issues as Mars 3 will have on top of obscene shipping charges($150 shipping to US ) due to supply chain blockages that don't simply allow these to be shipped via ship any time soon. Having said that, it does look like it will produce awesome prints. Whereas the 4K is available now, has the older firmware that allows for other programs to run on it apparently, and appears to be in stock in the US right now. Basically which one would be a better starter printer in your opinion, or am I going in the wrong direction all together?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/10/15 15:02:13
The last talk I've heard is that the SDK by Chitu is functionally (and legally with their contract) useless for anyone wanting to actually use it. That said the lock has been cracked and there are options out there now that let you slice with other slicers.
The Sonic Mini 4K (I own one) is a great printer if it works. It's core problem is that the Z axis wasn't best built for the level of printer and it can flex. Some people never have an issue, others do and the quality control has been a problem that plagued the printer. It has improved over time since its launch.
There's also a brand new Z axis assembly going on sale end of this month (3d Jake has the distribution of it but I don't think there's a US store distributing it); or you can get it direct from Phrozen (high shipping cost though).
I would assume newer units will come with the new axis already installed, but I don't know when the stock for them will be in the market so it might be prudent to ask any store which version they have. They do tend to sell out fast which suggests that stock cycles fairly quickly so there's a good chance of it not being long before new ones ship with the new assembly.
If you have a solid assembly it should print great.
The new 8K has a MUCH better looking Z axis all round including a duel rail. The downside is, as you note, the shipping cost for direct shipping is very high right now. In addition its a new printer and thus if you do take it on you are on the front lines to find out if it has any odd quirks. The Mars 3, for example, has a quirk where the build plate wobbles on some copies.
First runs of printers can have issues and if you are getting started I'd nudge you toward established printers first. It just removes a huge bunch of "what if" problems from the equation of getting started.
Thanks Overread. The issue with flexing for the sonic is definitely an issue that I want to avoid. I waited on the Mini 4K for a couple of days and it went out of stock on Amazon in the US. Now it looks like it is back in stock today. Is there a way for us the consumer to know if they have a new z-axis arm or not?
TinyLegions wrote: Thanks Overread. The issue with flexing for the sonic is definitely an issue that I want to avoid. I waited on the Mini 4K for a couple of days and it went out of stock on Amazon in the US. Now it looks like it is back in stock today. Is there a way for us the consumer to know if they have a new z-axis arm or not?
Asking the seller directly might be the only way. Even if Phrozen are sending them out now there might be all kinds of supply lag going on between shipments moving around and local warehouses and supply and such. Asking the seller is the only way
Bringing this subject back up. Since I was reviewing these things last year, life happened and delayed my purchase. I see that phrozen has a sale on for almost all of their existing printers. Now I thinking of pulling the trigger on the 4k Mini, but I wanted to know what people thought about the 4K Mighty. The reason why I am interested in the 4K Mighty is that with a larger plate, I will always be able to do terrain pieces until it dies, but I may switch to something with more detail once I get the hang of 3D printing. Does anyone have any thoughts on which one is the better starter printer for me?
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/08/16 13:35:15
I've not checked prices, but if the Saturn 2 is cheaper than the Mighty 4K then I'd get the Saturn 2 without question. 8K printer at that size is a fantastic thing.
I've personally got my eye on the Saturn and Mighty 8K (which is more expensive as well).
Saturn 2 is 550€ /550$ on preorder, mine should be here in about 2 weeks and I'll report back. So far reviews have been stellar. I think it will be the machine to beat for the next 1-2 years.
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2022/08/16 23:45:04
Subject: Still undecided on what resin printer to buy.
Saturn 1 was certainly a top machine that I know a lot of people loved and hit a sweet spot for merchants with a good build plate and affordable price.
Phrozen have gone down extras with webcam and such on the Mighty 8K and that's pushed their price up and might just have meant that they don't have quite enough special features to tempt people over the more affordable Saturn 2.
Thanks for your help guys. I also saw that EPAX is selling their 8K for $940 and a refurbished 4K for $540. Not sure which way that I want to go on this, but EPAX is 2.5 hours in the car from me, and free shipping for larger orders. Size may be an issue for me, which is something that I just thought of, so I this all may be moot for me.
Perhaps the mid sized printers will have more price elasticity in the coming year or two than the smaller lines. At least until the Mars 4 comes out with an 8K resolution, or Anycubic comes out with a DLP that is NOT a postage stamp for a build plate.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/08/17 01:00:30
I have an original Saturn, like the ones on Amazon for $332 right now. I have to say if you are on the fence about a larger scale resin printer, this is a steal and a beast of a machine. I totally love mine and while I am in the processing of abusing my Saturn right now, it is a workhorse and will look to where the market is in the next few years if I even need to upgrade.
Those that jumped on the Saturn 2, I am super jealous, but know I have no regrets on by basic Saturn and with the price of them now, if you are still printing on a 'tiny' build plate, you need to make the move!!
MDSW wrote: I have an original Saturn, like the ones on Amazon for $332 right now. I have to say if you are on the fence about a larger scale resin printer, this is a steal and a beast of a machine. I totally love mine and while I am in the processing of abusing my Saturn right now, it is a workhorse and will look to where the market is in the next few years if I even need to upgrade.
Those that jumped on the Saturn 2, I am super jealous, but know I have no regrets on by basic Saturn and with the price of them now, if you are still printing on a 'tiny' build plate, you need to make the move!!
The regular Saturn is an absolutely great machine, so you should totally continue using it. I only got the Saturn 2 because I was in the market for a bigger one and the timing was good enough that I managed to get it for $475.
2022/08/18 15:56:27
Subject: Still undecided on what resin printer to buy.
Pulled the trigger this morning on a Phrosen Mini 4K. Amazon had a deal on them that I could not pass up. I did check out the larger printers, and unfortunately, I don't have enough space for them at this moment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/18 20:12:54
TinyLegions wrote: Pulled the trigger this morning on a Phrosen Mini 4K. Amazon had a deal on them that I could not pass up. I did check out the larger printers, and unfortunately, I don't have enough space for them at this moment.
Still a great machine. I love mine.
2022/08/18 22:50:19
Subject: Still undecided on what resin printer to buy.
Mini 4K had some issues at its launch, but pretty much all the new stock out there now will have the new Zaxis build arm setup so you should be perfectly fine
I got one (old build arm then upgraded it) and its a great machine. Certainly made me go wow when I got prints off it. Was a bit - brutal on the learning curve (I think some machines a little more forgiving to get started with) but its darn amazing when you get prints off!
@ Valander: Great to hear, hopefully it works out for me.
@ Overread: I agree with you about the new arms should be on what I just ordered, however I am going to be watching the arm closely to see if there are any issues with while I am running it for a while. It does not look like it came from a resell, so it should be newer stock. You want to PM me any tips that might help me starting out with this machine, I would appreciate it. Or anyone else for that matter too!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/19 02:39:50
So for a block of general getting started tips (which honestly work for ANY resin printer).
1) https://atlas3dss.com/learn Check out the Ameralabs town print and video. Best step in calibrating your printer and getting aid with it. There are a range of calibration prints out there, some very flat ones print super fast, but they are often affected by the burn layers, meanwhile some others are very basic in shape and mostly tend to show that your printer at least prints something. The Town print is much more accurate and, correctly used, can help calibrate your printer really well.
One trick some do is to use one of the flat prints to get the settings close, then use the town print to finish up and fine tune settings.
You can find lots of settings online, but even the best might not be right for your printer, resin bottle and atmospheric conditions; so you always have to calibrate. Also check calibration when changing to a new resin bottle (if you buy bottles in bulk chances are you can skip that as they will most likely all be the same mix; buying now and then you are more likely to get bottles from different production batches)
They also have a bunch of videos worth watching on how to do supports as well. If you use discord the Atlas Discord is a wealth of information and advice.
2) https://printhunter.org/3d-printing-articles/ I should really write more, but right now there are two articles there. One is all about temperature and heating how important it is. The other is VERY important and is about PPE - ergo all the safety gear you need to keep safe. I strongly recommend reading the safety one at the very least, resin printing is great, but if you don't treat it with respect and take the proper precautions you can injure yourself and others.
3) You will get more fails at the start as you learn things. This can be very frustraiting because it feels like you never get anywhere; but each time you get a fail just work slowly and steadily through it. Chances are you'll come out the other end learning a bit more.
A few rough theories I've picked up that generally work well
1) Burn/base/bottom layer theory
a) Have at least 0.2mm depth of bottom/burn layers
b) After those layers ensure the remainder of your raft depth, plus a little more, is covered by transitional layers. If your printer doesn't support transitional layers, use more bottom/burn layers.
The idea here is to cover the raft plus a little bit of the start of the columns with more exposure to ensure that they print well and strongly, giving you a good foundation for the rest of the supports and model.
As you can see the number of layers you'll need will depend on both your layer thickness and raft thickness. However as most presupported models use a 0.5mm thick raft, that's a good generlaist number to work with. How many layers you add extra depends a bit on your layer thickness and there's no hard and fast rule. Eg with 0.05mm thickness you might only use one extra layer whilst with 0.02mm thickness you might use two or three more layers.
Transitional layers are not too complex, they just reduce the exposure time from your burn time to your normal exposure time, in equal steps. It basically "eases" the exposure from one to the other.
2) Lift speeds. This is like taking off a plaster, you either peel slow or rip fast. Between the two speeds is where the risk zone is where you've more chance of a fail.
In general the limits are 60 or slower or 180 or faster. Either end works on most printers. All printers should use slower speeds for the burn/bottom layers; meanwhile for regular you can generally pick either approach - slow or fast.
Note whilst some very big printers are not advised to go too fast; there is generally no upper limit for fast lifting speeds, so you generally go as fast as the printer can go (180 and 240 are the common top speeds).
Personally with the SM4K I've never felt comfortable with its build on the Z axis to use the fast speeds (also called vroom speeds). The new build arm is vastly superior and can likely take it, but its not something I've tried with it.
3) Build Plate Levelling. As long as you approach this sensibly its generally pretty easy to get right and only gets complicated if you are printing directly on the build plate (no raft) and if you want very accurate print dimensions.
However generally speaking whilst many people will say "the build plate isn't level" as a solution to many fails; it is, in my observation and experiences, often one of the rarer faulty parts.
As long as you take your time, tighten the screws slowly and in an alternate pattern (just like doing the bolts up on a tyre) you should be fine.
I personally level with the VAT installed (no resin in it of course). But you can also remove it and use the paper method. Remember the paper method won't have the build plate stopping the paper moving, its about ensuring even pressure on the paper.
And the first test with water washable is pretty good, too (I didn't clean it much, though, but you can see it did everything correctly and there's no overexposure)
) due to supply chain blockages that don't simply allow these to be shipped via ship any time soon. Having said that, it does look like it will produce awesome prints. Whereas the 4K is available now, has the older firmware that allows for other programs to run on it apparently, and appears to be in stock in the US right now. Basically which one would be a better starter printer in your opinion, or am I going in the wrong direction all together?
