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Made in nl
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Cozy cockpit of an Imperial Knight

Doing some research for a future project and we've come across something of a disagreement between two aspiring necromancers: which is easier to reanimate? A zombie or a skeleton? I know that in some old fluff (Vampire Counts army book, one of the Von Carstein novels or was it Liber Necris?) it was pointed out that one of the two was easier to reanimate, but I can't for the life of me remember, so anyone know which one?

Right now the argument has boiled down to..

- Zombies are easier to reanimate because they are still pretty much whole, so less magic is expended to keep them together, whereas a necromancer would have to expend more magic to keep the bones together.

- Skeletons are easier to reanimate because you only need to animate and "glue" together the bones, not infuse the entire rotting body with magic to get it moving again.

Cheers!



Fatum Iustum Stultorum



Fiat justitia ruat caelum

 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I don't know if there's any lore on that, but thinking about it logically


A zombie moves mostly by its own motive power, its' rotting but its muscles and body still function at a basic level. This is why they shamble along and have erratic movements. So all you need to animate them is some means to promote the muscles to work, ergo to get enough of the brain working to make the zombie move.

A Skeleton on the other hand has nothing to move it. All its motion has to come from some magical force. So not only have you got to give it will and direction (like the zombie) but you've also got to ensure it has enough magical power to allow itself to move.



Now in AoS my impression is that skeletons come in two forms - those that are purely robotic and are animated by the necromancer; and those which are essentially a soul (and associated soul energy) bound to a skeletal frame.

The former might require more power continually from the necromancer, but might require less power to get started. The latter might require more power to get going, but once going run on their own power.



So I'd say zombies are easier
Then slaved skeletons
Then soulbound Skeletons.



However the concept of easier and harder are variable. I've looked at it in terms of relative power and such; however it might be that one is neither easier nor harder, just different.

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Mighty Vampire Count






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Overeed has covered it well but a few thoughts:

Skeletons are often mentioned as retaining more martial elements and performing "familiar" tasks and some such as the Empire of Neferata consider them more asthetic.

As Overeed says there are fully sentient skeletons as well - much closer to Wights in fact.

Finally there a cultural reasons to animate different versions especially in the Realm of Shyish where the living and dead often "live" alongside reach other.

A good read which covers some of this is the Undying King by Josh Reynolds

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Historically speaking, in WHFB zombies were easier to animate. AoS has not explicitly leaned one way or the other, but think of it this way: zombies are quite commonly portrayed as being weaker than skeletons, if they weren't easier to animate why use them? Inside of every zombie is a skeleton, after all.

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I'd view it as you have to put more effort into holding a skeleton together, unlike a zombie which has (most) of its body attached together by fleshy bits, so the drain on magic would be greater to raise a skeleton.
   
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According to Liber Necris, it was zombie (thanks to still having brains, but that also made them slow and clumsy) < skeleton (requiring more magic, but better performance) < golem (more magic, more performance) < ghost < wraith (being more complete ghost) < wight (because it's skeleton + wraith at once in a sense) < vampire.
   
Made in nl
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Cozy cockpit of an Imperial Knight

Many thanks for the replies, they've given us some excellent food for thought.



Fatum Iustum Stultorum



Fiat justitia ruat caelum

 
   
Made in gb
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To delve a bit deeper into Liber Necris.

It describes the soul as being comprised of different element/aspects.

A Vampire, the technical pinnacle of the Undead are the entire soul bound into the body.

Zombies are the most basic, as they only require animus, that is the body be moving about. They lack pretty much everything else, rendering as puppets in need of direction (though not constant direction.

Skellingtons are a cut above, and because of what’s bound into them have some capacity for independent thought. No true sentience, but enough of who they were (typically soldiers) that their old skills come to the fore without being forced by the Necromancer.

I’ll dig out my copy when I get home, and explain a bit more, because it’s a very interesting concept.

   
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Nads. I can’t find the book. It’s here somewhere so I’ll report back when pops up again.

   
Made in us
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Is it bound in human skin? It's not cannon unless its bound in human skin.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in gb
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I have dug out the book!

The Liche Priests believed every intelligent and self aware mortal being is comprised of seven separate though related elements.

Kha The physical or mortal shell. The body, corpse

Ka Ego, reason and abstract thought

Ba The subconscious self and emotion

Ab The consciousness or awareness of right and wrong, also the freedom to choose between right and wrong.

Sekhem Life force itself. Power, soul-fire or aetheryic energy

Ren One’s true name. The signifier of self and individuality

Khaibit The Shadow. Literally one’s shadow.

By these definitions, a Zombie is Kha (the body), Khaibit (has a shadow), and Sekhem (magic). It’s essentially a fleshy automaton, given motion and orders implanted into its brain by magic,

A Skellington though is Kha, Sekhem, Khaibit and a fragment of Ka (ego). They require a greater amount of Sekhem, as the magic needs to saturate the bones, effectively acting as an invisible musculature.

So Skellies are somewhat harder to create than Zombies.

   
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Thumbs up Doc for the proper spelling of Skellington

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