Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2021/06/23 07:44:55
Subject: [KT] Rumours about a new KT box with plastic DKoK & Orks?!
Arnizipal wrote: Very cool.
Possible new edition of Kill Team as well then?
We are highly likely about to see a new edition of Kill Team. We know that there is an "evolution" on the way and August will mark the 3rd anniversary of the game, so we'll probably have a preview shortly.
Hopefully it will be on par with Warcry in terms of support.
Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.
2021/06/27 04:42:15
Subject: [KT] Rumours about a new KT box with plastic DKoK & Orks?!
A new edition would be cool. I don't know if I need another type of Guard infantry. I have two squads each of most of the previous types. New Orks maybe an auto buy depending what else comes with the box.
2021/07/10 17:36:00
Subject: [KT] Rumours about a new KT box with plastic DKoK & Orks?!
Apparently they are multipose-able. I guess it's a KT box so it makes sense to have a random Grenadier there. Big shame about no shotty poses, I like those, it remains to be seen just *how* poseable they are
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/10 23:18:14
I heard today they've got over 100 pieces in the 10-man kit. I expect they decided to shove all the possible variants into one box to save on packaging and marketing. If it doesn't make everything that would have used the base look from Forge World, I'd be surprised. As the second new IG kit after the updated Ghosts and the third update to the IG line after the upgrade sprue shoved into the Cadian box, I also expect the announcement that one of the next codex pair to be revealed is IG.
Unfortunately, I expect the new IG codex will now include updated rules for DKoK as they will be downgraded from a Forge World special regiment to just another Regimental Doctrine with few to no special choices, followed by the rest of the Forge World line being moved to Legends.
On the other hand, this shines new hope on all who have been asking for plastic versions of the discontinued metal IG lines. Now, we can only wait and pray to the tabletop gods that they will deliver unto us the long awaited updated plastic drugs for all non-SM lines.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/11 02:27:57
2021/07/11 04:36:02
Subject: [KT] Rumours about a new KT box with plastic DKoK & Orks?!
The DKoK sprues supposedly have over 170 components. The torsos are not multipart though so posability comes down to arms and heads. Swapping the arms and heads means you can use these for kitbashing other greatcoat guard as well.
Not sure if I like these as much as the gorgeous FW model versions, but at least they are heaps better looking than current guard plastics. Now the idea of starting a small Guard regiment doesn't feel like a joke anymore.
Speaking of the KT release specifically, I'm worried about the complete rules rewrite. Have they just butchered my favourite game?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/11 04:39:26
2021/07/11 10:02:37
Subject: [KT] Rumours about a new KT box with plastic DKoK & Orks?!
It all looks fairly normal, it's clearly a different style of combat resolution to 40k, hence the weird looking stats. That's not necessarily a bad thing at all and it looks like attacks in Killteam are going to be very slick to resolve.
The movement tools are a bit weird, but they're just normal inch distances given weird names.
2021/07/14 22:16:26
Subject: [KT] Rumours about a new KT box with plastic DKoK & Orks?!
has anyone been able to parse out the logic of switching to symbology as the primary distance method as opposed to as supplemental one? for me, Im finding it genuinely confusing and obscuring of the actual values, given their unwillingness to put the inch lengths in next to them.
when i see "torrent ", or whatever, i now have to go and check the rulebook to put that into a number I can work with. I know how far 2" is, and so does most people capable of playing KT or 40K. It doesnt seem to achieve anything beyond driving the some people to buy those plastic guages. Now, i know GW are a company that wants to sell plastic things, and i've found several of their play aids quite useful, like the strategem cards, but this seems.....excessively forced, even by GW standards?
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
2021/07/15 16:43:35
Subject: [KT] Rumours about a new KT box with plastic DKoK & Orks?!
I'm constantly astonished how much the distance symbols are tripping people's OCD. Fine trolling, GW
Why don't yall wait until the rules are revealed in their entirety before declaring the end of the world? Surely there must be even a hint of logic as to why the new system has been adopted.
2021/07/15 16:46:16
Subject: [KT] Rumours about a new KT box with plastic DKoK & Orks?!
For ranges, I think it could've been left out, but for movement values the purpose is to easily denote degrading movement values. An infantry that moves 3 square may get a -1 penalty and thus only move 2 square (I forget what square means but for this purpose let's say 2").
If you just said the infantry moves 6", would that penalty be -2"? reduce by 1/3rd? If a unit moves 4 square (8" in the alternative) should it be reduced by -2" or -2.5"?
The shapes for movement under the system adds a simpler level of granularity than the alternatives, but for ranges and torrent and the like I'm not sure it adds much unless you're going to do "2shape if stationary, otherwise 1 shape" or something.
when i see "torrent ", or whatever, i now have to go and check the rulebook to put that into a number I can work with.
No you don't. You're not moving 2", you're moving (Circle). I.E. You're grabbing the movement tool and putting that down. 2" is meaningless. Forget about 2". It has no bearing whatsoever on the game. Put it out of mind.
As for why, theres a few reasons but chiefly its that a pre-set movement tool is faster to use, more accurate, and less dangerous (to your minis - I once had an opponent drop his heavy contractors tape measure on top of my minis by accident, crushing a bunch of them) than a tape measure.
As for why you would drop numbers and replace symbols - I can really only gueess and infer, I know why I would do it if *I* was designing kill team - those symbols could correlate to a lot more than just the distance a model moves but also indicates how they interact with terrain features (i.e. this terrain feature halves movement for models with (Circle) but not models with (Square)) as well as triggering a variety of other potential effects, in which case you're using a symbol because simply putting 2" would be insufficient to convey the nature of the models movement characteristics. As Rihgu indicated, the symbols are also tied into a damage mechanic somehow, we don't exactly know how but its probably not dissimilar from what Rihgu suggested. Another key reason for it is clarity. Writing 3(Circle) is actually clearer than writing 3(2"), its very easy to confuse 3(2") for 2(3") if you aren't paying attention or trying to read someones statcard from across the table (especially upside down). With 3(Circle) that can't happen, because (Circle)3 is not a valid interpretation of the stat.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2021/07/15 20:30:54
Subject: [KT] Rumours about a new KT box with plastic DKoK & Orks?!
You can do exactly the same thing with numbers because numbers are also symbols. If you have different base movement values, you can still assign different effects to those different base values.
It’s a design decision to go with arbitrary symbols, and it seems they have done this without serious graphic design or user experience input, hence the online feedback.
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
The symbols are a multiplier. They've added multiplication and division into the game without really making it feel like multiplication and division, so that an 8 year old (or an 18 year old that's really bad at math) can play this game.
Circles, triangles, squares, pentagons, they're all multipliers that represent a number.
If you move 2 circles, you're multiplying 2 by 1, which is 2, therefore 2 inches.
If your gun is range 3 pentagons, you are taking 3 and multiplying it by 6, to get 18 inches of range.
If you can normally run 4 squares, but jumping over a barricade means you subtract 1 from your movement characteristic, then your movement becomes 3 squares. What would normally be 4 x 3 = 12 becomes 3 x 3 = 9.
Similarly, if you have a particularly speedy unit that runs 4 pentagons, but a barricade means you subtract 1 from your movement characteristic, you now run 3 pentagons. So it goes from 4 x 6 = 24 to 3 x 6 = 18.
This allows them to have modifiers to movement that change the multiplication algorithm without having to explain multiplication to anyone in the rules.
In one aspect, it's very clever and I look forward to seeing how the rules actually hash out and if it improves the gameplay experience.
In every other aspect, I'm screaming: "why aren't we just using a tape measure?"
If they were going to go this far, why not just make it a grid or hex based system?
2021/07/16 06:08:42
Subject: [KT] Rumours about a new KT box with plastic DKoK & Orks?!
I think GW still wants us to be buying all that sweet terrain. And with big enough terrain pieces, how are you going to tackle a hex/square grid board if the terrain pieces don't have those same grids?
2021/07/16 06:11:05
Subject: [KT] Rumours about a new KT box with plastic DKoK & Orks?!
tauist wrote: I think GW still wants us to be buying all that sweet terrain. And with big enough terrain pieces, how are you going to tackle a hex/square grid board if the terrain pieces don't have those same grids?
Great question.
It was mostly hyperbole on my part anyway, but still. We'll see how it all goes down.
2021/07/16 07:44:46
Subject: [KT] Rumours about a new KT box with plastic DKoK & Orks?!
The really weird thing is that they managed to get the shape thing right In Blackstone Fortress. Am I right in thinking Kill Team is still part of their boxed games division? If so then it’s a weird failure of knowledge transfer within quite a restricted part of the company. I can see the KT team being entirely different actual development team, but you would think that the box games division senior staff would have twigged to something.
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
I wouldn't be surprised at all if the shapes mechanic was inspired by Blackstone, I was immediately reminded of that game when I saw the shapes.
I think whoever decided on the shapes didn't stop to think "what would make sense?", they just slapped shapes on and shrugged. The specialist games team seems very rushed from my experience of it's games, a real shame though.
2021/07/16 09:13:29
Subject: [KT] Rumours about a new KT box with plastic DKoK & Orks?!
drbored wrote: The symbols are a multiplier. They've added multiplication and division into the game without really making it feel like multiplication and division, so that an 8 year old (or an 18 year old that's really bad at math) can play this game.
Circles, triangles, squares, pentagons, they're all multipliers that represent a number.
If you move 2 circles, you're multiplying 2 by 1, which is 2, therefore 2 inches.
If your gun is range 3 pentagons, you are taking 3 and multiplying it by 6, to get 18 inches of range.
If you can normally run 4 squares, but jumping over a barricade means you subtract 1 from your movement characteristic, then your movement becomes 3 squares. What would normally be 4 x 3 = 12 becomes 3 x 3 = 9.
Similarly, if you have a particularly speedy unit that runs 4 pentagons, but a barricade means you subtract 1 from your movement characteristic, you now run 3 pentagons. So it goes from 4 x 6 = 24 to 3 x 6 = 18.
This allows them to have modifiers to movement that change the multiplication algorithm without having to explain multiplication to anyone in the rules.
In one aspect, it's very clever and I look forward to seeing how the rules actually hash out and if it improves the gameplay experience.
In every other aspect, I'm screaming: "why aren't we just using a tape measure?"
If they were going to go this far, why not just make it a grid or hex based system?
Ok, I can get that, that makes a degree of sense. I suppose my problem is more that they display values purely with the symbols instead of eith both symbols and numbers. If that flamers torrent value had been 'torrent (2") ', I'd be not nearly so annoyed by it. I think that's what I meant by obscuring.
I don't object to the rest of the changes, certainly. It's not 40k, obviously, but then I don't think kill team SHOULD be "40k lite" in the 1st place anyway, so diverging from the 40k baseline is probably a good idea if it improves the game and removes problems that come with scaling 40k down to this small a scale.
I just felt like the symbology thing didn't add to the playability of the game, particularly, at least in the form shown. I'd have preferred circle for one, a large X for 2, triangle of 3 and hexagon for 6, which links the shape to the number a little better
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
2021/07/16 11:31:01
Subject: [KT] Rumours about a new KT box with plastic DKoK & Orks?!
But again, why do you need to see torrent (Circle) 2"? You aren't measuring 2", you are measuring circle. 2" is irrelevant, it means nothing. You are using the measuring tool they gave you. No doubt if there ends up being an official competitive circuit for Kill Team, use of that tool will be mandated/other measuring devices will be banned.
Stop trying to hold on to the use of your tape measure - they aren't anything special, magical, or significant.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.