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Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Nice to see this, thank you. I think this model needs an underdeck armature.

From the image it may be possible to keep the quarterdeck separate and model the aft section below deck.

If I am reading this right the main deck is false under the quarterdeck. On sloops and some earlier ships the decks are at split level with the stern decks being at half height above/below the adjoining decks. This does mean multiple smaller stairs.

Therei s an openable door so we can capitalise on that and cut away the rear section of the main deck under the quarter decks and reset it at the base of the model. Then model in a side hatch leading forward to the hold. The forward has the main deck leading straight down to the orlop deck and this cannot be modelled with a waterline kit. But you could make a great cabin for your sloop.

I wonder if the model includes a variant with a single flat deck and no split level elevated quarterdeck. This would explain the wood texture on the whole deck.

Piece 8 might include a significant elevation as there is no separate piece to cover the arch of piece 9.

Sophie is as long as three plastic sloops.
Hull length at waterline being the usual measure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 pancakeonions wrote:
Super stoked about that Blood and Plunder starter set, all in HIPS! Maybe the two sloops could give Sophie a run for her money?

Unlikely


Not likely at all. Even if they tried to pull the same stunt as Cochrane they are just too small. HMS Speedy was a brig-sloop, very different though still a small vessel. These sloops could get under Sophie's guns, literally, but could they do any damage when there? Cochrane boarded and won at 4:1 odds against, but even he, or Nelson, would more than struggle against 20:1.

Sloops were common pirate vessels, and too light to be hunted down efficiently. However frigates are fast ships, faster than sloops against most wind directions. In a pirate campaign you have a sloop, fight other sloops and merchantmen, and if you stay in one place too long Sophie turns up for a boss battle. Which generally means 'it is too late, you should have moved on'. The sloops are frankly more useful than Sophie for miniatures gaming which while a good base for a pirate themed campaign needs other big ships to fight.

What you could do is have the PC's on Sophie yet depict actual battles at a completely different ship scale, so you can have anything from cutters to 1st rates floating about, while the adventurers command a 5th/6th rate, which is about right for a heroic adventuring captain and crew.

However if you have a Sophie and two sloops on the way, what next to consider? I would be looking at a brig next. Maybe a plastic brig is just over the horizon, it would be a logical next step. Do both of those and anything else would be a luxury you don't really need to depict at 28mm.
You could use the gundeck as a stand in for the main deck of a fat merchantman to take as prizes with your sloops. Beyond brigs and merchantmen there is nothing you need to depict in 28mm. If fighting from Sophie against anything that is a challenge to her you need to depict the battle in multiple scales with only the home side depicted in individual or small crew scale, and all OPTOR being ship models facing against your frigate token and whatever allies she has around.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/30 23:26:54


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran





Sophie could be run undergunned, not unreasonable considering you have suggested she is an older ship refitted, and as a also under crewed merchant trying to save on wages, perhaps a decent target for a pair of sloops.

Or perhaps a well gunned ship but crippled on a sandbank like Blackbeard’s flagship was.

Or a Royal Navy 5th Rate caught at anchor in a tight harbor with too many crew on shore leave.

Or a privateer in the middle of sacking a port with only a skeleton crew aboard.

Or a captured ship sailing home with a limited prize crew and a bunch of prisoners on board willing to fight for those brave enough to try to free them.

Lots of opportunities to even the odds between Sophie’s Revenge and some smaller ships.

But yeah, eventually I would like to get something equal, or close to equal to Sophie’s Revenge, to playtime part of her nemesis.

Edit: I have a copy of the Black Seas rulebook that I have considering using as you have suggested for running the ship to ship fights largely with then use the 28mm ships more for boarding and RP.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/31 10:19:20


Rick, the Grumpy Gnome

https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/ 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
Sophie could be run undergunned, ....... perhaps a decent target for a pair of sloops.
Or perhaps a well gunned ship but crippled on a sandbank like Blackbeard’s flagship was.
Or a Royal Navy 5th Rate caught at anchor in a tight harbor with too many crew on shore leave.
Or a privateer in the middle of sacking a port with only a skeleton crew aboard.


Indeed Grumpy Gnome, there are many ways to even up a scenario. I was just taking the ships at face value.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

not unreasonable considering you have suggested she is an older ship refitted, and as a also under crewed merchant trying to save on wages,


Sophie being a refitted older ship is based on three factors, her exact armament, her general architecture and her stern architecture.
The design is reasonable, if we allow for standard features omitted from the model but presumed to be present, but in my opinion somewhat ahistorical. What gives her away is the late 18th century prow design versus the presence of a stern balcony and general architecture reminiscent of 17th and even 16th century ship design.
I do not consider this a problem frankly. Age of Sail ships had a slow evolution in design and I shouldn't have to go far to find a real ship that looked somewhat like Sophie.

Older is a relative term as the classic Age of Piracy is centered at the late 17th century, with the Age of Privateers being a century earlier. Wheras when we look at ahistorical naval vessels they are nominally rated according to that late 18th century/Nelsonic Era, which is the high point of the Age of Sail with regards to fleet action.


 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

But yeah, eventually I would like to get something equal, or close to equal to Sophie’s Revenge, to playtime part of her nemesis.


A second Sophie will set you back $125 plus taxes. That is still a bargain. I am strongly tempted. I will then mod the second vessel heavily. One option is to scratch build a deck extension to turn one into a 4th Rate. Would be a tad short, but not excessively so. 4th Rates usually ran at about 145' by 40', about 10% bigger, excluding height. In any case will be waiting for the inevitable .stl mods for this vessel. The optimum answer will be to have the additional deck as a fully removable, so I would have two 5th/6th Rates with option to upgrade one to a 4th.
Sadly nobody else is making anything comperable, unless you go backwards and select a galleon, or pick up the Viking Carpenter 'ship of the line' which is an obsolete/17th century two deck frigate.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

Edit: I have a copy of the Black Seas rulebook that I have considering using as you have suggested for running the ship to ship fights largely with then use the 28mm ships more for boarding and RP.


There are lot of options for Age of Sail vessels at 1:600 or smaller scale.

In all honesty all else you need at this point (Sophie and a pair of plastic sloops) at 28mm is a brig. That is the link ship between the sloop and frigate sized vessels. I only recommend a second Sophie because the price is so ridiculously good still.

If you want an earlier period, or fantasy, go back rather than forwards, so Sophie is ultra modern rather than an obsolescent, and pick up a galleon. There are a surprisngly large number of options available.




n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Dangerous Outrider




Baltimore, MD USA

They are out of print now, and the company out of business , but if you can find them, the Renaissance games ships were nice, and their largest one (a frigate) is not that smaller than Sophie.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/renaissanceminiature/ships-pirates-and-wildwest-terrain-for-28mm-gamers

HMS Surprise (and the Esperanza):

"This is our "flagship" model. Having a 33" long frigate on your gaming table makes an imposing statement! This model is a true representation of the historical HMS Surprise - and just like the ship that was described in the Master & Commander books, and the historically accurate movie. HMS Surprise had a long and fascinating career, starting out as a French ship, captured as a prize and seeing long service in the British Navy.

The "Esperanza" ('expectation') is identical to the Surprise, but with red paintwork (where Surprise is yellow) and black sails.

You can pull out the masts and remove the upper deck. The real Surprise had two below-waterline decks, which we were obviously unable to model so we provide two "2D" maps of the lower decks, gridded into squares with internal walls and stairways etched in place. These slide into an area under the gun deck for storage.

HMS Surprise comes with all 24 cannons, with metal barrels and wooden carriages. The kit also include two Longboats (complete with masts and sails) and a historically accurate structure that fits over Surprises' hold to keep them in position while they were sailing. The longboats come with a detachable lower hull section so they look good both on the water or above water with the entire hull visible."

I have a Surprise I have not assembled yet. The picture above is my "Esperanza"

[Thumb - 33CC9BBB-A68C-4B00-B2A4-82315342E9C3.jpeg]

[Thumb - 6E04BF37-1A4A-4DFA-B884-748A2C9B712B.jpeg]

[Thumb - 8BBA6F4D-8F06-4DF9-9B5A-630D49A541A9.jpeg]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/01 01:37:47


 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Everyone. I have updated the OP with additional information.


Smokestack, I am sure that ship was made with love.


Now to Sophie. My Bones 5 arrived yesterday afternoon and I had patience enough, barely, top keep Sophie boxed up so a friend could help unbox her. Very nice, I do think I will be able to free the hull from the deck but it will be tough and there are sacrifices to make. The vessel was only partly misassembled, one half of the lower hull is 1mm out of true. It is visible but fixable. I suppose I got lucky, it could have been much worse.
I knew the ship was big, but wasn't prepared for what I saw. Pictures do not do her justice. Measures given do not give her justice. Seeing the monster for myself, that does her justice. She is a big ship. Threw some cold water on my dreams for a fleet, but maybe not enough to prevent my buying a second one.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran





Well our Bones V pledge finally arrived.

Sophies Revenge is huge but not so big I think that it will overly dominate a 6x4 table, so Mrs. GG and I are really pleased with that. However, I am a bit disappointed that the walls are connected to the upper decks rather than the lower decks.

Rick, the Grumpy Gnome

https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/ 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Worth the wait Grumpy.
I have taken a long look at deck separation and think it can be done, but it is a big task. Consequently it has been put off in favour of many other Bones related builds and painting.
Sophie was a must buy for salt insurance, which is a weird purchase psychology but does work, and I do not regret the spend. However I will likely wait for my plastic sloops before delving into 28mm age of sail properly.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran





We are in agreement mate.

Mrs. GG is skeptical of my idea to use a hot water bath to sort out the warping on the ship but I remain optimistic. I am not prepared at this stage to glue the decks together to deal with the warping but it may eventually come to that, at least for the gun deck.

Rick, the Grumpy Gnome

https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/ 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

I am skeptical too, if you cut free the decks from the hull, excepting the waterline timbers, you will have more manageable sections to heat and reset.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran





The little sloop is quite a nice kit. Lots of great details. Might make a nice gunboat. I see this doing well in retail.

Rick, the Grumpy Gnome

https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/ 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran





An interesting blog post about using a 1/96 scale Revell Spanish Galleon for 28mm Blood and Plunder gaming.

http://spanishleadpainting.blogspot.com/search?q=Galleon


Rick, the Grumpy Gnome

https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/ 
   
Made in us
Dangerous Outrider




Baltimore, MD USA

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
An interesting blog post about using a 1/96 scale Revell Spanish Galleon for 28mm Blood and Plunder gaming.

http://spanishleadpainting.blogspot.com/search?q=Galleon



That was a cool article... would have liked to have read the part 2, if there is one, but searching the blog i couldnt find one.
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Long time away from this thread, and the information I have is limited and belated.

However at Salute last month I did see Blood and Plunder, tried the same, asked a lot of questions about the rules and saw the new 28mm Sloops.

Now a caveat, the sloops I saw were the resin ones but the demonstrator was able to confirm in detail any size and content differences between those and the plastic sloops.

I am now thoroughly looking forward to them, they are mush larger than I had imagined and have a lot of playable deck space. To think that a basic pledge to Blood and Plunder will net backers two.
If anything the limitation is in the number of crew miniatures, we will need more, not only to man the ships but for general gaming in this genre. Crew sculpts are solid and versatile.

I didn't back Bones 5.5 though, could not afford it, and while I should have picked up at least ten more cannon I decided I had spent enough already.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/15 19:40:50


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Dangerous Outrider




Baltimore, MD USA

Blood and plunder posted an update, showing one of the sprues for the sloop.

[Thumb - 1.jpg]

[Thumb - 2.jpg]

   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Is that a free helmsman miniature?

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Dangerous Outrider




Baltimore, MD USA

Latest update on the Blood and plunder kickstarter ship has an assembled ship. Here are the pics
[Thumb - 1.jpg]

[Thumb - 2.jpg]

[Thumb - 3.jpg]

[Thumb - 4.jpg]

[Thumb - 5.jpg]

[Thumb - 6.jpg]

[Thumb - 7.jpg]

[Thumb - 8.jpg]

[Thumb - 9.jpg]

   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







Hella nice.

Posters on ignore list: 36

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User






I am preparing to put together and paint my Sophia's Revenge. I have been looking for a fix to the weird mast situation with the ship. I had hoped someone would do a printable fix for it but nothing so far. I have a Middle Eastern/East Asian/South Asian Pirate themed warband and their background is that they are the crew of the Queen Shahrazad's Revenge, while I have several smaller ships, when the Sophia came along she seemed tailor made for the project as this is a large and growing warband. I had thought her story could be that she was a captured European ship and her square sails would make perfect sense. However, the other day I was looking through the web and I came across some pictures of Xebec rigged frigates. I remember one of these from the Aubrey Maturin books. However, I couldn't find pictures of a ship, large enough to have a gun deck, rigged with lateen sails. Would this look ridiculous? I had thought you could even use the masts from the kit and just not use the part at the top and affix the spar(?) near the top of it. Obviously I am not a nautical guy, any help suggestions would be appreciated.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/04/07 14:24:58


 
   
Made in us
Using Inks and Washes





San Francisco, CA

What do you mean by "weird mast situation"? I know the ship is not very historical (being a fantasy ship and all...), but it sounds like you might want a completely different style of sails - you prefer the lateen style of the Xebec? (Which I think also look really cool!)

You could conceivably just take the sail yard, and angle it differently (e.g., 45 degrees relative to the mast, instead of its current 90 degrees), that shouldn't be too hard, but might require a little greenstuff and sculpting to make it look nice.

But if you wanted to add a topsail and / or other elements that are missing from Sophie's Revenge... That's a bigger job! You could just go with the solution that Blood and Plunder does, and use a few simple wooden dowels and customize it as you see fit?

I play...

Sigh.

Who am I kidding? I only paint these days... 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User






I mean the fact that the masts are not complete. I understand they cut them off to make it easier to play on the deck but I think it looks too strange.
   
Made in us
Using Inks and Washes





San Francisco, CA

Ya, that's a good point. They do look weird... But not weird enough to bother me, lol.

But if you angle the yard, setting them to lateen style, does that improve them for you? I think (but am not sure) that lateen sails had a single yard, so this could work?

I play...

Sigh.

Who am I kidding? I only paint these days... 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

I would go with a full rig, scaled down for convenience. No progress has been made on my Sophie but it is well down the list of things to do, and was bought as 'salt insurance' anyway.

Nevertheless I did a fair bit of thought in the rigging. Here is where I am at so far.

1. Take oyamaru casts of the spars and castle plates, I will need three to four times as many spars (see step, 6) and twice as many castle plates as provided.

2. Cut the base of the masts provided and remove the magnets, glue the bottom sections of the masts, sans magnets to the deck below, The masts will run through the ship and should be depicted on each deck, and the support will be needed once the replacement masts are made.

3. Take several sections of wooden dowel to match the girth of the masts, bind them with string in places and add the magnets to the bottom of each mast. Add the castle plate and then add a second mast in front of the first bound with more string (and glue). A good wrapping of string and shaping of the mast heads to a square section will be all that is needed to make the masts look good.

4. A third mast should be added atop the second, but I might make the second mast tall enough for two sails. Thus abstracting down the rig.

5. Add magnets to the masts at the position of the spars. I will stick with the 'traditional abstract of three sails per mast, most miniature wargaming ships used this standard rather than the more accurate six. Basically you get a main sail, topsail and topgallant, the upper two sails being on the second adjoining mast

6. assemble the spars from smaller wooden dowels and add sails of thick paper sealed with mod podge.. You need two copies of each spar both magnetised, one with a billowing sail and one with a fully furled sail. You could use the spars provided and two additional castings instead (step 1). Spars do rotate, but again abstract sailing ships have sails forward at all times in one of two states, furled and unfurled. Copying this is normal and greatly simplified the rig.

7. I will include one jib mounted on wire that I can attach to a connector on the bowsprit and foremast. I do not recommend adding stay sails as they will compromise access to the ship. I might add two or more jib sails to the single piece. When furled the jib sails can be hauled down and do not need to be represented.

8. I will include a spanker, likely a later design spanker with a flat spar. I might also remove the mainsail from the mizzen, which was sometimes done as it interfered with the spanker. A Spanker should rotate around the mizenmast to a good angle on either side, as this was the spankers main job and the sail was unique I will keep this functionality.. A furled spanker is lowered but, the lowered spar of the spanker will be set artifically high so as not to inhibit model access to the poopdeck. The spar will have two sails magnetised for it, one furled and one billowed. I will make the sail symmetrical so it can be removed and reversed to follow the rotation of the spar. This is a bit of a hack but will allow a good approximation of function including variable numbers of sails to set while maintaining a simplified rig that does not interfere.

9. Net rigging on the mast castles will be retained, of simplified, the net rigging running to the deck will have to be magnetised and set on a bar that can be attached. I might however just omit net rigging, it looks better with it but adds to the complexity of the model and reduces access too much. With exception of a simple wire jib line all other rigging will be absent.

Done this way I should have a usable playing piece players can command and set, and also understand as this simple ten sail rig is a greatly thinned down variant of a full rig.

If anyone is after a galleon rig do as above but replace the mixxenmast sail plan with a lateen.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Using Inks and Washes





San Francisco, CA

Dang. I do hope you post here when you've updated your work-in-progress blog... I wanna see how this is coming along!

Like you, my Sophie's Revenge is a bit down the priority list, but I'm going to magnetize the hulls, to help make her feel a bit more solid (and perhaps minimize the gaps between pieces - which aren't too bad on my model). A friend has loaned me his airbrush, so learning how that thing works will also become a priority then... I've also got the Blood and Plunder kickstarter coming (now August... Sigh!), so perhaps I can paint up SR in late summer? I'll be taking pictures and keeping track of her progress. Probably over at Reaper (or maybe here?).

I play...

Sigh.

Who am I kidding? I only paint these days... 
   
Made in us
Using Inks and Washes





San Francisco, CA

This might be interesting for folks who follow this thread. I just finished a massive painting project of Reaper's Sophie's Revenge, a "Heroic Scale Pirate Ship"

It's awesome (not my paintjob, but the model!). Lots of fun to paint, lots of character. Now I just have to figure out how to use it!

Here's a pic the picture I took when I first got the thing:


This is what it looks like now:




Here's the playable areas (the decks are magnetized together, to make it easier to play without it falling apart):



If you want more details, I blogged more here in the Reaper forum:
https://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/98995-sophies-revenge-or-how-to-get-stuck-in-a-very-very-long-project/

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/13 00:08:00


I play...

Sigh.

Who am I kidding? I only paint these days... 
   
 
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