Switch Theme:

Hexfire - GK vs TS box discussion  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Using Object Source Lighting





Portland

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Like the new Nundam suits, the pilot was going to be more integrated, with his legs partially within the legs of the Dreadknight:
Spoiler:


If the model looked like that I doubt it would get anywhere near the ridicule that it has received for the past decade.
It looks like this was closer to a dreadnought (or now invictor) scale? To me it looks like they maybe did the baby carrier when they made the model larger? I think the frame being so large also adds to the silly feeling.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/05 16:06:00



My painted armies (40k, WM/H, Malifaux, Infinity...) 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
JimmyWolf87 wrote:
The concept is 'fine' (it's logically a sensible bit of kit, even if I'd argue that it's thematically problematic that they'd utilise it). It's more the execution of the design that just makes it look silly. There are any number of ways that the core idea could have been put out (even if it was just a 'bigger pattern dreadnaught') and it retain the purpose yet somehow that is what they settled on.
I've brought it up before - in this thread already, I believe - but the Dreadknight was't always going to have the Terminator just hanging there like a giant armoured baby carrier.

Like the new Nundam suits, the pilot was going to be more integrated, with his legs partially within the legs of the Dreadknight:

If the model looked like that I doubt it would get anywhere near the ridicule that it has received for the past decade.


I agree; it wouldn't have had the unfortunate 'baby carrier' moniker and would probably have much more of an acceptance.

For me though, the 'baby carrier' is just the icing on the cake for a concept that doesn't work for in the first place for the Grey Knights; it's a silly visual but not necessarily the core reason I don't like it (and I think the look of the thing in that original artwork is likewise pretty crap, just less so). It's an amalgamation of things and I just outright don't enjoy the 'mecha' or 'Ripley-Loader' aspect of the design in general, especially when it has an actual hand built in to hold a sword when it could quite easily just have a blade fixed into the limb with the same effect and look a whole lot less silly.

I know we're treading over old ground for this thread but the ADB reasoning for why he doesn't like it, I'm wholly on board with; it negates the inherent 'heroic' aspect of the GK, even if they should logically find a means to go 'toe to toe' with a greater daemon; it's not like the Imperium of Man is a regime of efficiency and devoid of dogmatic baggage.

Ultimately GW are a miniature company, I'm not going to complain when they make new toys. I just wish, in this instance, it didn't look so much like an actual child's toy.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Ever since 5th ed? It's not a new model, and people have been mocking it since its release.


I'm still catching up with the tabletop hobby since returning in 2017 and after being absent from the tabletop hobby for over a decade.

To be honest its made my day.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

Okay, okay. Let's get past the looks. Let's talk new rules for the Dreadknight. +1 attack, +1 wound, 4+ invulnerable save is pretty nice. I have to wonder if the HQ knight will have a 3+ invulnerable?
   
Made in gb
Walking Dead Wraithlord






I find it weird how GW thinks having 5 -4 D6 dmg attacks is better than 10 -2 2D damage attacks against big targets..

D6 damage is pants in CC when compared to the likes of Dark lances or Cognis that's being handed out like candy to a shooty platform..
Its the same reason nobody ever takes swords on their wraithlords lol

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/05 17:31:04


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

SamusDrake wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Ever since 5th ed? It's not a new model, and people have been mocking it since its release.


I'm still catching up with the tabletop hobby since returning in 2017 and after being absent from the tabletop hobby for over a decade.

To be honest its made my day.

That's fair. It is rather meme worthy.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




 cuda1179 wrote:
I have to wonder if the HQ knight will have a 3+ invulnerable?

No. At the minimum from these two codexes, I am expecting no sources of 3++ to be available on data sheets (and I'm counting 4++s with a +1 to the roll in this, so All Is Dust will be changed to something completely different or only works on armour save rolls) and 3++ to be very hard to achieve via strategems, spells or relics and quite limited in some way.

So far the exceptions to this I can think of are the DE Archon and a once per battle SM relic, any others? Sisters 'feel' like they probably have something.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

EightFoldPath wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
I have to wonder if the HQ knight will have a 3+ invulnerable?

No. At the minimum from these two codexes, I am expecting no sources of 3++ to be available on data sheets (and I'm counting 4++s with a +1 to the roll in this, so All Is Dust will be changed to something completely different or only works on armour save rolls) and 3++ to be very hard to achieve via strategems, spells or relics and quite limited in some way.

So far the exceptions to this I can think of are the DE Archon and a once per battle SM relic, any others? Sisters 'feel' like they probably have something.


Custodes have troops with 3+ invulnerable.
   
Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch




dorset

 cuda1179 wrote:
EightFoldPath wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
I have to wonder if the HQ knight will have a 3+ invulnerable?

No. At the minimum from these two codexes, I am expecting no sources of 3++ to be available on data sheets (and I'm counting 4++s with a +1 to the roll in this, so All Is Dust will be changed to something completely different or only works on armour save rolls) and 3++ to be very hard to achieve via strategems, spells or relics and quite limited in some way.

So far the exceptions to this I can think of are the DE Archon and a once per battle SM relic, any others? Sisters 'feel' like they probably have something.


Custodes have troops with 3+ invulnerable.


Objection! Those are 8th edition rules not yet updated, 8fold was listing 9th ed codexes

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/05 18:50:55


To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
 
   
Made in us
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice






 cuda1179 wrote:
EightFoldPath wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
I have to wonder if the HQ knight will have a 3+ invulnerable?

No. At the minimum from these two codexes, I am expecting no sources of 3++ to be available on data sheets (and I'm counting 4++s with a +1 to the roll in this, so All Is Dust will be changed to something completely different or only works on armour save rolls) and 3++ to be very hard to achieve via strategems, spells or relics and quite limited in some way.

So far the exceptions to this I can think of are the DE Archon and a once per battle SM relic, any others? Sisters 'feel' like they probably have something.


Custodes have troops with 3+ invulnerable.


There is a pretty clear trend away from invulns that are better then 4+ in 9th edition. The only exception have come from relics or special characters. Pretty sure GK won't have a 3++ available, even on Draigo if I were a betting man, who will more likely receive a shrug from his shield like the indomitus captain did.

   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





I think Centurion Warsuits are even worse. Like a Russian doll.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I think Centurion Warsuits are even worse. Like a Russian doll.


Yeah they really call attention to the fact that absolutely no suit of space marine armor would ever actually work IRL. They went just like 5 degrees over the silly line with cents and it completely broke the usual 'eh, rule of cool dont worry about it' that space marine armor usually skates by on.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Argive wrote:
I find it weird how GW thinks having 5 -4 D6 dmg attacks is better than 10 -2 2D damage attacks against big targets..

D6 damage is pants in CC when compared to the likes of Dark lances or Cognis that's being handed out like candy to a shooty platform..
Its the same reason nobody ever takes swords on their wraithlords lol


Did you forget strength? The GMDK is a measly S6 meaning..

10 * .833 * .333 * .5 * 2 = 2.8

And

5 * .833 * .666 * .5 * 3.5 = 4.9



   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




xerxeskingofking wrote:

Objection! Those are 8th edition rules not yet updated, 8fold was listing 9th ed codexes

Sustained!

 Red Corsair wrote:
There is a pretty clear trend away from invulns that are better then 4+ in 9th edition. The only exception have come from relics or special characters. Pretty sure GK won't have a 3++ available, even on Draigo if I were a betting man, who will more likely receive a shrug from his shield like the indomitus captain did.

Layered defences seem more likely. Special characters might get one from -1 damage, half damage, -1 to hit, can't re-roll hits, -1 to wound, can't re-roll wounds, full shrug/fnp, MW shrug/fnp. I've just remembered one of my other predictions for NDKs, -1 damage like dreads. Although maybe being exposed like they are they don't get the dread -1 damage.

Just thought about the Aegis, 5+++ for mortal wounds is very handy for perils. I always found the anti perils rules in Thousand Sons and Tzeentch Daemons a bit strange, you would think the safe 'nerds' of the Grey Knights would have those rules, while the wild sorcerers who believe in power/knowledge at any cost would take the perils and risk of dying in exchange for more oomph.
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Yeah, but Makari didn't become the most powerful little git in the galaxy just so some 'umies could forget his 2++ invuln
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Argive wrote:
I find it weird how GW thinks having 5 -4 D6 dmg attacks is better than 10 -2 2D damage attacks against big targets..

D6 damage is pants in CC when compared to the likes of Dark lances or Cognis that's being handed out like candy to a shooty platform..
Its the same reason nobody ever takes swords on their wraithlords lol


Did you forget strength? The GMDK is a measly S6 meaning..

10 * .833 * .333 * .5 * 2 = 2.8

And

5 * .833 * .666 * .5 * 3.5 = 4.9





D6 damage will also be beneficial against models that reduce damage by one.
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

New updates to the Thousand Sons, specifically Rubric Marines and Scarab Occult Terminators.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/06/rubric-marines-and-scarab-occult-terminators-are-turning-everything-to-dust-with-the-rules-in-codex-thousand-sons/
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Thousand Sons are now more like machines than necrons.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in aw
Regular Dakkanaut





I am really sad about no news about any changes to Magnus.

   
Made in gb
Power-Hungry Cultist of Tzeentch




 Virules wrote:
I am really sad about no news about any changes to Magnus.

not even any snarky sentence like "and wait to see what Big Red himself can do" in the article, makes me slightly worried that he won't be getting much and won't really compare to Morty, specialy I can't think on any thematic way to make him more durable other than a 2++ which will never happen mmh mmh.
I guess we'll find out tomorrow
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Argive wrote:
I find it weird how GW thinks having 5 -4 D6 dmg attacks is better than 10 -2 2D damage attacks against big targets..

D6 damage is pants in CC when compared to the likes of Dark lances or Cognis that's being handed out like candy to a shooty platform..
Its the same reason nobody ever takes swords on their wraithlords lol


Well -3 but doing math vs knight gave 6 wounds and spare with big strike, tad under 3 with 10 attacks

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut







Very happy with all of this.

I wonder what happens to the Mutalith when the Infernal Master seems to be taking up it's design space.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 the_scotsman wrote:
 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I think Centurion Warsuits are even worse. Like a Russian doll.


Yeah they really call attention to the fact that absolutely no suit of space marine armor would ever actually work IRL. They went just like 5 degrees over the silly line with cents and it completely broke the usual 'eh, rule of cool dont worry about it' that space marine armor usually skates by on.


I'm with Rogal Dorn on this; Centurions aren't even in the same ballpark as the Dread Knight.

(I do realize that I'm distinctly in the minority on liking the Centurion models, but I really do like them a lot. If GW had just updated the basic Marine kits and put out several more Centurion variants instead of all the Primaris malarkey I'd have been a happy camper.)

Back on topic, not updating the basic GK marine kit is a bafflingly bad decision.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/06 15:28:53


   
Made in us
Rampaging Chaos Russ Driver





Albany, NY

The cap on cultist/Tzangor units vs. Rubric units seems like a bigger deal with TSons than it was for Death Guard but I like the push to make Chaos Marines more a part of a Chaos Marine army.

   
Made in us
Twisting Tzeentch Horror





So far I am happy with what the TS are getting. Can't wait until we can get basically all the details tomorrow. I am a little surprised there weren't more leaks ahead of the release as it seems for other armies there was a bit of leaks of things like box data sheets (only GK are known) etc. Guess I will have to be patient like a kid on Christmas eve.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 xeen wrote:
So far I am happy with what the TS are getting. Can't wait until we can get basically all the details tomorrow. I am a little surprised there weren't more leaks ahead of the release as it seems for other armies there was a bit of leaks of things like box data sheets (only GK are known) etc. Guess I will have to be patient like a kid on Christmas eve.


There's enough info for me to play know given we know points. Spells are still fudge, but it will be close enough.
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




 Daedalus81 wrote:
 xeen wrote:
So far I am happy with what the TS are getting. Can't wait until we can get basically all the details tomorrow. I am a little surprised there weren't more leaks ahead of the release as it seems for other armies there was a bit of leaks of things like box data sheets (only GK are known) etc. Guess I will have to be patient like a kid on Christmas eve.


There's enough info for me to play know given we know points. Spells are still fudge, but it will be close enough.


Spells, Warlord Traits, Relics and most the strats. There's a surprising amount missing still. Imagine fighting Drukhari without Drazhar's total re-rolls and the Competitive Edge Succubus. It's really different!
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Feel like All Is Dust was left unchanged because of the assumption that you'll be popping Unwavering Phalanx on your Rubrick every round... I'd really like to run multiple squads of Rubrics but with these rules it seems like a single very large squad is probably what you want. Maybe one max squad of Rubrics and one max squad of SOTs so you can fill out the rest of your troops with cultists.
   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




The AID change was the one I feared most. Still workable depending on strats, the 1 CP (5 man unit version) -1 damage strat looks like it could win games by earning 5 points of your primary on turn 4 or turn 5.

The 2 dmg swords on Scarabs look very good for killing 4~6 wound characters.

I like the SRCs staying 1 damage, so if they are teched vs. 1 dmg the swords do work or if they are teched vs. 2 dmg the guns do work. That is kind of why I'm not too sad about AID combined with the new strat as it allows you to tech vs 1 dmg and 2 dmg at the same time.

 Prometheum5 wrote:
The cap on cultist/Tzangor units vs. Rubric units seems like a bigger deal with TSons than it was for Death Guard but I like the push to make Chaos Marines more a part of a Chaos Marine army.

I think someone has asked on facebook or twitter and GW have confirmed the Shaman isn't a BRAY unit, not sure if Englightened are either. It is possible only the footslogging Tzaangor are restricted. If so, 3 Scarab units means 3 Tzaangor units.

If Tzaangors remain unchanged or barely changed stats and rules wise, they look good at 7 points each.
   
Made in ca
Nihilistic Necron Lord




The best State-Texas

To the Tzaangor Bray unit question:



Unless they are wrong here, which is possible, looks like the Troop Tzaangors are the only models that have the bray keyword.

4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
:Necron: Necron Discord: https://discord.com/invite/AGtpeD4  
   
 
Forum Index » News & Rumors
Go to: