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Made in us
Yellin' Yoof




Kansas

The new Ork codex entry for Mek Gunz does not state the number of krew to include. No stat line for the krew. All ranges are measured to the gun, not the krew. So the questions are:

If I choose to use less than six krew, will this be legal?

If the Mek gun is assaulted, but the assaulters are prevented from reaching engagement range due to the presence of krew, how shoukk ok’d this be handled?

Honestly, I’d much prefer to simply base my Mek Gunz with a couple of grot krew each and call it a day. Do you think I would get push back in a tournament setting for doing this? I think if I chose a reasonable base size, it would not represent modeling for advantage. What base seize would you recommend?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/31 17:10:49


Check out my blog at www.theundermind.com for lots od ORKY goodness... 
   
Made in ca
Foolproof Falcon Pilot




Ontario, Canada

The crew models are ignored entirely. They will not prevent enemy movement. Models cannot move within 1" of an enemy model, but the mek gun rules say that all measuring is done to the gun model. Therefore enemies can freely move "through" the crew models.

So, Yes. It's completely legal to include crew on the base - although I'd recommend magnetizing them so that you can remove them for the purpose of determining line of sight, since the rules say to ignore the crew for vision purposes as well. If you've got a few extra grots, you might even be able to use them as wound counters!
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





"Grot Krew: Each Mek Gun and its grot krew are treated as a single model for all rules purposes. The krew must remain within 1" of their Mek Gun and cannot be targeted or attacked separately. The range and visibility of all attacks made by a Mek Gun are measured from the Mek Gun, not the krew."

Attacks FROM the Mek Gun are measured from the gun, but it doesn't say the same is true for attacks against the Mek Gun.

So the crew count as the same model as the gun generally, which means if an enemy charges and gets within range of the any krew then a charge on the gun has succeeded, and and they can make attacks against the gun just by being in range of the krew.

You also must field all 6 Krew, as that is what the datasheet says.

I doubt most tournaments would be OK with you basing them all on one base. For casual games it might be fine. In either case, it's entirely up to the specific event or opponent.
   
Made in ca
Foolproof Falcon Pilot




Ontario, Canada

 Stux wrote:
"Grot Krew: Each Mek Gun and its grot krew are treated as a single model for all rules purposes. The krew must remain within 1" of their Mek Gun and cannot be targeted or attacked separately. The range and visibility of all attacks made by a Mek Gun are measured from the Mek Gun, not the krew."

Attacks FROM the Mek Gun are measured from the gun, but it doesn't say the same is true for attacks against the Mek Gun.

So the crew count as the same model as the gun generally, which means if an enemy charges and gets within range of the any krew then a charge on the gun has succeeded, and and they can make attacks against the gun just by being in range of the krew.

You also must field all 6 Krew, as that is what the datasheet says.

I doubt most tournaments would be OK with you basing them all on one base. For casual games it might be fine. In either case, it's entirely up to the specific event or opponent.


Seems like you're reading an old version of the Mek Guns. The new wording is:

"Each Mek Gun and its crew are treated as a single model for all rules purposes (crew models must remain within 1" of their Mek Gun model). This means that the crew models cannot be targeted or attacked separately and that visibility and all ranges are measured to and from the Mek Gun's model, not the crew models."

So the crew are NOT measured to or from for any rules purposes, additionally the datasheet says absolutely nothing about fielding the crew members. It lists the unit composition as "1-3 Mek Guns"
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





Ah my bad... thanks for the heads up
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Bojazz wrote:
 Stux wrote:
"Grot Krew: Each Mek Gun and its grot krew are treated as a single model for all rules purposes. The krew must remain within 1" of their Mek Gun and cannot be targeted or attacked separately. The range and visibility of all attacks made by a Mek Gun are measured from the Mek Gun, not the krew."

Attacks FROM the Mek Gun are measured from the gun, but it doesn't say the same is true for attacks against the Mek Gun.

So the crew count as the same model as the gun generally, which means if an enemy charges and gets within range of the any krew then a charge on the gun has succeeded, and and they can make attacks against the gun just by being in range of the krew.

You also must field all 6 Krew, as that is what the datasheet says.

I doubt most tournaments would be OK with you basing them all on one base. For casual games it might be fine. In either case, it's entirely up to the specific event or opponent.


Seems like you're reading an old version of the Mek Guns. The new wording is:

"Each Mek Gun and its crew are treated as a single model for all rules purposes (crew models must remain within 1" of their Mek Gun model). This means that the crew models cannot be targeted or attacked separately and that visibility and all ranges are measured to and from the Mek Gun's model, not the crew models."

So the crew are NOT measured to or from for any rules purposes, additionally the datasheet says absolutely nothing about fielding the crew members. It lists the unit composition as "1-3 Mek Guns"


So, RAW, you measure the charge distance from the mek gun itself, but the charge succeeds when you get within 1" of a crew model, because crew models and the gun are treated as a single model ?

And you must field the crew, because crew models must remain with 1" of their mek gun model.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/01 06:14:53


 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 p5freak wrote:
Spoiler:
Bojazz wrote:
 Stux wrote:
"Grot Krew: Each Mek Gun and its grot krew are treated as a single model for all rules purposes. The krew must remain within 1" of their Mek Gun and cannot be targeted or attacked separately. The range and visibility of all attacks made by a Mek Gun are measured from the Mek Gun, not the krew."

Attacks FROM the Mek Gun are measured from the gun, but it doesn't say the same is true for attacks against the Mek Gun.

So the crew count as the same model as the gun generally, which means if an enemy charges and gets within range of the any krew then a charge on the gun has succeeded, and and they can make attacks against the gun just by being in range of the krew.

You also must field all 6 Krew, as that is what the datasheet says.

I doubt most tournaments would be OK with you basing them all on one base. For casual games it might be fine. In either case, it's entirely up to the specific event or opponent.


Seems like you're reading an old version of the Mek Guns. The new wording is:

"Each Mek Gun and its crew are treated as a single model for all rules purposes (crew models must remain within 1" of their Mek Gun model). This means that the crew models cannot be targeted or attacked separately and that visibility and all ranges are measured to and from the Mek Gun's model, not the crew models."

So the crew are NOT measured to or from for any rules purposes, additionally the datasheet says absolutely nothing about fielding the crew members. It lists the unit composition as "1-3 Mek Guns"


So, RAW, you measure the charge distance from the mek gun itself, but the charge succeeds when you get within 1" of a crew model, because crew models and the gun are treated as a single model ?
It does not mention crew models at all in the entry for Mek Guns in the 9th ed Codex. So it does not seem like they are even allowed on the table.

(The unit composition says "1-3 Mek Guns").

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/01 06:13:41


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We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

 DeathReaper wrote:
It does not mention crew models at all in the entry for Mek Guns in the 9th ed Codex. So it does not seem like they are even allowed on the table.

(The unit composition says "1-3 Mek Guns").


You must field the crew, because crew models must remain within 1" of their mek gun model. How can they remain within 1" of their mek gun, when they arent there ?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/01 06:19:17


 
   
Made in us
Yellin' Yoof




Kansas

You must field the crew, because crew models must remain within 1" of their mek gun model. How can they remain within 1" of their mek gun, when they arent there ?

Except there is no indication of how many krew to field. It’s a pretty glaring oversight.

I hope that when it’s FAQed, they just dispense with krew being anything more than a counter like ammo runts or grot oilers. This makes the most sense and eliminates all the silliness surrounding potential assault issues involving models with no profile. I suspect that was the intent to start with, based on the wording.



This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/01 06:45:30


Check out my blog at www.theundermind.com for lots od ORKY goodness... 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

There is no need to indicate how many krew you need to field. The crew is part of the model. If you dont field the entire crew that comes with the model, the model is incomplete. Thats modelling for advantage, because you are reducing its footprint.
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

 Stux wrote:


You also must field all 6 Krew, as that is what the datasheet says.


5, actually. One model is glued to the piece of artillery, it doesn't have his own base. It's like storm bolter gunners from imperium tanks, you don't need to glue the actual gunner to the tank to be able to equip your tank with a storm bolter, you just need the storm bolter.

 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 p5freak wrote:
There is no need to indicate how many krew you need to field. The crew is part of the model.

I can't find anything in the rules about needing to field any "Krew".
If you dont field the entire crew that comes with the model, the model is incomplete.
I don't see how this is relevant, models are fielded with missing parts all the time.
Thats modelling for advantage, because you are reducing its footprint.
When the rules are silent on how many "Krew" you need to have, how do you know it is MFA?

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

 DeathReaper wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
There is no need to indicate how many krew you need to field. The crew is part of the model.

I can't find anything in the rules about needing to field any "Krew".
If you dont field the entire crew that comes with the model, the model is incomplete.
I don't see how this is relevant, models are fielded with missing parts all the time.
Thats modelling for advantage, because you are reducing its footprint.
When the rules are silent on how many "Krew" you need to have, how do you know it is MFA?


I suggest you read the mek gun rule. Here it is, again :

Each Mek Gun and its crew are treated as a single model for all rules purposes (crew models must remain within 1" of their Mek Gun model). This means that the crew models cannot be targeted or attacked separately and that visibility and all ranges are measured to and from the Mek Gun's model, not the crew models.


See the red marked part ? How can the crew models remain within 1" of their mek gun model when they arent on the battlefield ? If we ever play together i will come with naked bases, because, according to you, models are fielded with missing parts all the time When you dont field the crew the mek guns footprint is smaller, because there arent any models around it.
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 p5freak wrote:
 DeathReaper wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
There is no need to indicate how many krew you need to field. The crew is part of the model.

I can't find anything in the rules about needing to field any "Krew".
If you dont field the entire crew that comes with the model, the model is incomplete.
I don't see how this is relevant, models are fielded with missing parts all the time.
Thats modelling for advantage, because you are reducing its footprint.
When the rules are silent on how many "Krew" you need to have, how do you know it is MFA?


I suggest you read the mek gun rule. Here it is, again :

Each Mek Gun and its crew are treated as a single model for all rules purposes (crew models must remain within 1" of their Mek Gun model). This means that the crew models cannot be targeted or attacked separately and that visibility and all ranges are measured to and from the Mek Gun's model, not the crew models.


See the red marked part ? How can the crew models remain within 1" of their mek gun model when they arent on the battlefield ? If we ever play together i will come with naked bases, because, according to you, models are fielded with missing parts all the time When you dont field the crew the mek guns footprint is smaller, because there arent any models around it.
Great quote, now find something that says how many "Krew" go with the Mek Gun.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




How many krew must be within range. If I have 0 krew, all are within range, satisfying the rule.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Biloxi, MS USA

 p5freak wrote:
because you are reducing its footprint.


How are you reducing the footprint when the rules themselves say to ignore the krew and only ever use the gun?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/01 22:23:14


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Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

nosferatu1001 wrote:
How many krew must be within range. If I have 0 krew, all are within range, satisfying the rule.


How is the crew in range when there is no crew ?

 Platuan4th wrote:

How are you reducing the footprint when the rules themselves say to ignore the krew and only ever use the gun?


That is not what the rule is saying. When i deepstrike the more than 9" distance is measured to the gun itself, but the charge distance needed is less than that. I only need to get within 1" of the crew, because the gun and its crew are treated as a single model. The crew is not ignored.
The crew must be there, and they take up space around the gun. If you deepstrike the gun you might be able to place it when there is no crew, but you wouldnt be able with the crew, its footprint is bigger with crew. If you play 18 mek gunz they use much less space without crew, you can hide more behind obscuring terrain.
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 p5freak wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
How many krew must be within range. If I have 0 krew, all are within range, satisfying the rule.


How is the crew in range when there is no crew ?
Because if all the "Krew" need to be in range and there are 0 "Krew", then if 0 "Krew" are in range, you have satisfied the rule.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
Steadfast Grey Hunter





 p5freak wrote:
When i deepstrike the more than 9" distance is measured to the gun itself, but the charge distance needed is less than that. I only need to get within 1" of the crew, because the gun and its crew are treated as a single model.

That sounds suspiciously like you're illegally measuring a distance of 1" or less to the crew models.
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

The Dataslate does not list anything other than "1-3 Mek Gunz" Therefore no "Krew" needed. (Probably not intended, but 100% RAW)

Spoiler:

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

 DeathReaper wrote:
The Dataslate does not list anything other than "1-3 Mek Gunz" Therefore no "Krew" needed. (Probably not intended, but 100% RAW)


When the rules mentions a crew, and a crew comes with the model, the crew must be there.

ryzouken wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
When i deepstrike the more than 9" distance is measured to the gun itself, but the charge distance needed is less than that. I only need to get within 1" of the crew, because the gun and its crew are treated as a single model.

That sounds suspiciously like you're illegally measuring a distance of 1" or less to the crew models.


No, i dont. When the gun and crew is one model i only need to get within 1" of a crew model. The crew cannot be targeted (i am not targeting the crew), and it cannot be attacked separately (i dont attack them), and the charge distance is measured to the mek gun.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/02 05:36:54


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







 p5freak wrote:

No, i dont. When the gun and crew is one model i only need to get within 1" of a crew model. The crew cannot be targeted (i am not targeting the crew), and it cannot be attacked separately (i dont attack them), and the charge distance is measured to the mek gun.


What part of "Each Mek Gun and its crew are treated as a single model for all rules purposes (crew models must remain within 1" of their Mek Gun model). This means that the crew models cannot be targeted or attacked separately and that visibility and all ranges are measured to and from the Mek Gun's model, not the crew models." do you think is making an exception to measure engagement range?

   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Platuan4th wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
because you are reducing its footprint.


How are you reducing the footprint when the rules themselves say to ignore the krew and only ever use the gun?


Good luck putting mek gun over crew model.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain





Bristol (UK)

How many threads have we had p5freak in and you guys are still engaging him on this nonsense?

It seems clear to me the writers have decided the crew is pointless to deal with and have all but disregarded them. The rules about "include them but ignore them for absolutely all purposes" seems purely for thematic reasons and because they're in the box so they need rules.
Hence it doesn't list number of crew because it's irrelevant.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/02 07:41:59


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

 solkan wrote:
 p5freak wrote:

No, i dont. When the gun and crew is one model i only need to get within 1" of a crew model. The crew cannot be targeted (i am not targeting the crew), and it cannot be attacked separately (i dont attack them), and the charge distance is measured to the mek gun.


What part of "Each Mek Gun and its crew are treated as a single model for all rules purposes (crew models must remain within 1" of their Mek Gun model). This means that the crew models cannot be targeted or attacked separately and that visibility and all ranges are measured to and from the Mek Gun's model, not the crew models." do you think is making an exception to measure engagement range?



They still need to be there for LOS which does require range
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain





Bristol (UK)

You measure visibility to and from the gun as well.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






*sigh* really guys?

A mek gun krew is what comes with the box. A mek gun model consists of the gun itself and its krew. They are part of the model just like the turret of a LRBT is.
Not putting every krew member on the board is the same as deploying a model with a missing arm, turret or other part. Simple as that.
It might not matter for measurement or LOS bit sure has heck matters for footprint and moving across those units. Especially with the traffic jam problems orks have and mek guns now being stuck to each other, not deploying krew is a massive advantage.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/02 10:40:42


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain





Bristol (UK)

If it doesn't matter for measurement why would it matter for footprint?

Leman Russ turrets matter for measurement, you can measure from the gun barrel for example.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/02 10:52:32


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 kirotheavenger wrote:
If it doesn't matter for measurement why would it matter for footprint?

Leman Russ turrets matter for measurement, you can measure from the gun barrel for example.


You are not allowed to put models on top of other models or move through other models. The krew makes the mek gun cover more area and thus take up space in your deployment zone, makes them harder to deploy in narrow places and makes them harder to move around - all very real problems for buggy lists.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/02 11:02:27


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

 kirotheavenger wrote:
If it doesn't matter for measurement why would it matter for footprint?


Because crew models need space on the battlefield. Is it so hard to imagine 18 mek gunz without crew, and imagining 18 mek gunz with crew ??
   
 
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