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Not sure if this has been brought up already, but I've seen people commenting that kustom jobs might be free since they haven't listed the points down in the points dataslate. If I remember correctly, I don't think we've seen it in older chapter approved back when it was still located in the books, wouldn't we still use the current points cost in the codex? I wouldn't mind them being free, just unsure if that's considered normal since then why wouldn't you just take as many as you can?

Well, the 40k App still shows the old points cost for the kustom jobs (whereas the darasheets got the new costs) so I wouldn't get my hopes too high...

Blackie wrote:

gungo wrote:


Regardless they both compete for elite slots… the Kommandos cost 20pts more have More wounds, better saves, significantly more atks and Don’t require a transport. Imho nobs are still overpriced by at least 1pt but really 2. Nobs have +1 str but you do a lot less atks which you need when everything is -1ap (except klaw/saw)

To be fair kommandos have a better save.... while in cover. In combat, and we're talking about a melee unit, they're t-shirt save dudes while nobz have 4+ save. So against other models that don't wield melee weapons with high AP nobz are definitely tougher.

I don't think nobz are overpriced. They're just useless. Being elite and with their current rules/wargear they can either be too cheap and spammable or too expensive. They need to be troops, period. Then they'd be a legit option as they are, they could even be 1 or 2 points per model more expensive actually and still be ok.

Nobz have the issue that they don't have a niche. Massed Choppa attacks are covered by Kommandos, Boyz and Snaggas. PK attacks are covered by MANz. Shooty units are covered by Tankbustas, Burnas, Lootas and Flash Gitz.

The vast majority of the time they're taken for melee, so I think MANz need to be improved to give regular Nobz more breathing room as a discount PK delivery system unit.

Grimskul wrote:Not sure if this has been brought up already, but I've seen people commenting that kustom jobs might be free since they haven't listed the points down in the points dataslate. If I remember correctly, I don't think we've seen it in older chapter approved back when it was still located in the books, wouldn't we still use the current points cost in the codex? I wouldn't mind them being free, just unsure if that's considered normal since then why wouldn't you just take as many as you can?

I don't think kustom jobs have ever been in the points lists have they?

All the discussion I have seen tends to lean towards us still paying for them.

Looking at the gw app, they still have points when making a list. I personally think they still need to be payed for.

 Jidmah wrote:
As long as you manage to stay in cover, you still get a 4+ save from Sneaky Gitz in combat.

This and the entire point of kommandos is to forward deploy them into cover….

You know what nobs need powerstabbas to be ap-3 … the point is so they can be a high ap and low strength melee unit.. filly a niche orks lack…

Necron Arkanas were listed in points but i dont think ork Kustom Jobs were...for whatever reason (speaking in the book itself)

I dont think theyre all free. That'd be weird, even fi they are mostly underwhelming

gungo wrote:

You know what nobs need powerstabbas to be ap-3 … the point is so they can be a high ap and low strength melee unit.. filly a niche orks lack…

If they were also exclusive to the nob datasheet as well (boys nobs can take them), I would definitely consider them as something to hunt average T, high save units.

I also been asking this.

One side of the camp says their free since their not listed.

The other side mentions it must be a mistake since they never were.

But there are many armies with some examples of being listed and they mention if not listed it's free.

Not gonna pretend it's competitive in any way, but between the waaaagh bonuses and CP cost for a super heavy aux detachment going away I'm finally motivated to finish painting up this Gorkanaut. Tellyporta and Big Krumpaz, let's go!

imo the cp cost for a superheavy was only one problem
The other is lack of kultures, i dont think i saw them change that part. GW doesnt price things expecting kultures to be there or not.

Well and frankly, spending 365 points on a platform that'll often hit on 6s to hit in shooting is just not gonna fly. It's combat profile is also just not that impressive for that points cost.

It's too inefficient. The stormsurge went up 70 points to 400 and still embarrasses all of our super heavies.

Only one sort of ok is the Kill Tank and just because it's so cheap and it hits on 4s.

 xttz wrote:
Not gonna pretend it's competitive in any way, but between the waaaagh bonuses and CP cost for a super heavy aux detachment going away I'm finally motivated to finish painting up this Gorkanaut. Tellyporta and Big Krumpaz, let's go!

It's definitely not good, but it's better than it was.

On that note though: now that it doesn't cost CP I might give the Kill Tank another go, specifically the Killbursta version.

It has D3 and AP-3, +1 to hit at half range, and it has a spiked ram.

Core would be;
Ghaz
Kill Tank
Snagga boys x2
Battlewagon x2
Grots x3
MANz

Then kommandos, Squighogs and Koptas to fill the rest of the points. Maybe Zagstruk to ride with the MANz.

Loads of T8 wounds, loads of scoring units and objective monkeys.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
imo the cp cost for a superheavy was only one problem
The other is lack of kultures, i dont think i saw them change that part. GW doesnt price things expecting kultures to be there or not.

I mean big krumpaz specialist detachment is pretty much given… +1 to hit melee
The only question is if you want to add kustomjobs aka stompa pistons Or shokka hull… 30pts is a lot though but movement 11 +1 to adv roll is nice for the gorkanaut.

With waaagh bonuses +1 atk and str, and -1ap shooting (+1 shot) And 5++ invul during waggh is good…
And your looking at 31 bs5+ Str6 ap-2 d1 shots And 22 str5 ap-1 d1 2x rokkits and skorcha
Followed by
18x str9 ap-2 d2 atks @ws2
The Morkanaut is useless… ignore it
The problem with the nauts is they are to easy to kill for the cost… even w 5++ 3+ t8 and 24wounds
Makari can give it fnp 6+ too but it evaporates quickly… it needs -1 damage or at minimum ramshackle

So..how does your new lists look like these days with these changes?

So many things changed that i find it difficult to really find a good balance. Simply because of so many options, not because things are bad.

Uh, not sure?

Currently packing up models for list a based around a brigade filled with bloodaxe kommadoz, beasty boyz, squigriders, zapkrumpas, stormboyz and *gasp* lootas.

So similar to the bomb squig list but with bloodaxe shenanigans sprinkled in. It will either be glorious or blow up in my face

Goff pressure list something like-
Battalion w supreme command
Ghaz- warlord
Beastboss on squig- BBK, beasthide mantle
Makari (or wierdboy if psychic interrogation)
10x beastsnaggas
10x beastsnagga
10x Gretchin
10x kommandos- pk, bomb squig
10x kommandos- pk, bomb squig
10x kommandos- pk, bomb squig
4x squigriders- bombsquig
4x squigriders- bombsquig
4x squigriders- bombsquig
Killrig- frazzle, squiggly curse
Killrig- frazzle, squiggly curse
Wazbom blastjet- 2x tellyporta blasta; kff, specialist:boomboys

Or bloodaxe brigade where you drop ghaz and makari and add more stuff like snikrot, stormboys, lootas, meganobs. I also want to try a bloodaxe list where I’m going for psychic interrogation and gaining a lot of command points..

You should switch out one of the squiggly curses - otherwise you'll not be able to cast a second power on the off chance that both are alive after your opponent's shooting phase.

I'm also not too sure on how viable Ghaz is anymore. Dropping him and makari allowed me to add three more units and a KFF for first turn, that seems to be more value to me. Then again, he is one of the few things that can smash a knights...

I'm also not a fan of units of 3 squig riders, 5 have served me much better.

I was trying to toy with an actual old school horde style list.

Currently working around:


On a more serious note maybe something around:


But there are many ideas. Maybe i should try an infantry heavy build with snakebites? Along side the KFF for 2 rounds of 5++ and a big gob painboss for a 6+++ as well. Mixed in with the snakebites transhuman along side Mozrog. Could be fun now. maybe even useful? To really maximize the survivability.

Beardedragon wrote:
So..how does your new lists look like these days with these changes?.

No real changes to my Grot force.

Pts wise, since my grots got cheaper, I've got a spare 30pts floating about.
So I gave my Mega-Tank a shokka hull.

Detachment wise? In the event that i find myself in a Nephlim game, it just shifted from being 1 patrol/1 fast/1 heavy Detachment to 3 patrols with the units reshuffled a bit.
I could've already been running it that way. But I prefer to have it set up as 2 distinct "factions" - the tank company & the artillery/gunz battery. Then a patrol to catch the misc stuff. Always cost me 5 - 6 cp to do that.
I could've always saved a few cp by fielding it as a blended 3x patrol.
And I still have my WL trait & Relic.
Starting with no CP is an annoyance but not much of a real hindrance as I really only use Ramming Speed turn 2+. Sure, a re-roll on something might be nice. But not really needed.
With 3 patrols I did lose 1 total fast slot (I was using 7). So 1 Grot Bomb launcha gets replaced by a 3rd Mek Gun. Largely the same effectiveness.

No changes to my speedwaaagh at all. Tomorrow I play last tournament with the old rules. I don ´t wanna mess my mind with the new rules

Hey I wonder, did anyone try a MW spam version of AoR already?
WLT Roadkilla, DA iron gob (on a Goff bike boss? ) strat crashing through & ramming speed & Burn Em all, Kustom job drag chain & shokka Hull, spiked ram, squig mine, koptas bomb, burna bomb, boom bomb, zapp gun (on wagon). I probably miss some more, but looks like if built accordingly, AoR can also generate quite a lot of mortal wounds.

Beardedragon wrote:
So..how does your new lists look like these days with these changes?

So many things changed that i find it difficult to really find a good balance. Simply because of so many options, not because things are bad.

Here's what I'm working with at the moment after the changes:



So lots of early pressure from Kommandos and Trukkboys, lots of MW potential from Bomb Squigs, Scrapjets and bigger Squigs. Characters are missiles looking to do damage while everything else nabs objectives and does actions.

XC18 wrote:
Hey I wonder, did anyone try a MW spam version of AoR already?
WLT Roadkilla, DA iron gob (on a Goff bike boss? ) strat crashing through & ramming speed & Burn Em all, Kustom job drag chain & shokka Hull, spiked ram, squig mine, koptas bomb, burna bomb, boom bomb, zapp gun (on wagon). I probably miss some more, but looks like if built accordingly, AoR can also generate quite a lot of mortal wounds.

Roadkilla, crashing through and ramming speed are decent, all others are are too unreliable, situational or require too much of an investment to be worth it.

You'll just spread a ton of mortal wound everywhere, but won't actually put them where they matter.

Alphaork Strike style back on the menu?

https://pastebin.com/D7tRDDzR

Have the stormboyz hop out of the wagons turn 1 to get a free 3", then hop snaggas back into the empty wagons (along with the couple mega nobs I brought)

This could probably get in 30 kommandos, 29 stormboyz, Zagtruck, 1 wagon (ramming speed), and a Kill rig in turn 1.

 Jidmah wrote:
You should switch out one of the squiggly curses - otherwise you'll not be able to cast a second power on the off chance that both are alive after your opponent's shooting phase.

I'm also not too sure on how viable Ghaz is anymore. Dropping him and makari allowed me to add three more units and a KFF for first turn, that seems to be more value to me. Then again, he is one of the few things that can smash a knights...

I'm also not a fan of units of 3 squig riders, 5 have served me much better.

Regarding powers i have never been a huge fan of most of the beastsnagga powers outside of frazzle on killrigs but I can probably add spirit of gork if I take larger beastrider units.

Now regarding beastriders i agree with you 5 is better I just ran out of points (And models; I only own 9) and like the bomb squig spam… it was just a quick list it needs tinkering.

I beleive ghaz is still one of the top placing armies and his double Waagh Is great. Makari is also a steal at 50pts w him. He is a ton of Points though and I think he’s slsoghtly overpriced.

So, what do you think about secondaries?
I still think we have no good faction secondaries.

Good bits is simply worse than banners in the long run (if your opponent is not able to kill a couple grot units mid board, you've allreay won the game regardless). And you can't perform it with your characters like meks and minimeks.

Green tide is an even worse version of engage on all fronts.

Killing stuff with your warlord... Considering that ork warlords are throwaway units or ghaz it's not a good one vs 90% enemies.

The only semi-decent is killing stuff in mellee but it's situational at best. And risky as our units tend to be squishy and worse than stuff we usually face in mellee.

I'm not sure what's good to take now except for banners.

 koooaei wrote:
So, what do you think about secondaries?
I still think we have no good faction secondaries.

Good bits is simply worse than banners in the long run (if your opponent is not able to kill a couple grotunits mid board, you've allreay won the game regardless). And you can't perform it with your characters like men's and minimeks.

Green tide is an even worse version of engage on all fronts.

Killing stuff with your warlord... Considering that ork earlords are throwaway units or ghaz it's not a good one vs 90% enemies.

The only semi-decdnt is killing stuff in mellee but it's situational at best. And risky as our units tend to be squishy and worse than stuff we usually face in mellee.

I'm not sure what's good to take now except for banners.

i dont agree with this assessment. I mean, i agree they arent exceptional, but they have gotten better.

Biggest and da best is a secondary i never used before because it was too difficult to get points out of it. But now, there are also easier ones to do, like it gives you VP for simply sitting on an objective, among other changes, making it much easier to do. Hell i would do this with a speed mob just to get at least 10 points for being parked on an objective, and maybe some more if i can deal a bit of damage or finish someone off near my objective. Unless you are playing against a psyker heavy faction, keeping a beastboss on squig, or even a wartrike from a speed mob, alive is possible as long as you dont actively try to get him killed. In the games ive played Speed Mobs, i only ever got my wartrike killed when i lost or i needed to throw him out the window as a blockade to defend more important stuff. So i dont think it will be difficult to get a minimum of 10 from biggest and da best with a wartrike in a speed mob. I can see myself getting 10 points from that decently often as long as im not psyker sniped. While its not the best secondary and its tricky (and certainly risky), i feel like it can still yield some points, around 10 if not more.

The Good bits is buffed to be able to get them with grots on the same turn. If you can get them to 2 secondaries turn 1 or turn 2, then thats already 5 points. And if you keep something else like some cheap boys nearby to do the rest it should be fine. Good bits objectives at WTC terrain is often behind obscurring anyway, and they give 3 VP per objective, so if you get grots on an objective turn 1, you just need to hold a single objective for the rest of the game and do bits to get all 15. I mean if they want to focus on getting to grots sitting behind obscurring, then thats their deal. You can then pummel away at his army while doing good bits with something else later. Anything that priotizes a grot is another valuable unit that isnt destroyed.

Stomp em good was decent, though not the best because we kinda have to survive. But with the changed waaagh mechanic, it will be easier for us to kill, and easier for us to survive in return. And lets face it, those that take Stomp em good, will not use the speed waaagh. So while this secondary isnt changed, its easier to pull off now i believe.

Im uncertain about the last "engage on all front" kind of secondary we have.. I mean if im already swarming the board with 30 grots trying to hold backline objectives, and doing good bits, added with a few boys here and there, maybe getting 3+ points would come naturally. Im not sure. Boys still do die fast, so i might not do that one. However, WTC terrain often has a lot of obscurring, so being hidden while doing bits while still getting VP from Greentide might be viable.


All in all, i can see myself doing Good bits, and if im not using ghaz, i can see myself potentially using Biggest and da best, if i can avoid being sniped one way or the other.

Im not here for 95 point games, im here to win. So if i can hold my enemy back while doing good bits, while has to deal with my 5++ waaagh units charging in then maybe this will be enough for us to be good again.

Honestly I struggle to justify ghaz as anything outside of a beatstick. For a third of the cost you can get a warboss for 1+ to hit and the foot centric part of the waagh. The extra 200pts can be spent on a painboy, a kff mek then more infantry for the pressure lists.

It's just so hard to fully utilise his kit.

I think Ghaz is fine as long as you bring a list with decent shooting from vehicles. So 2-3 scrapjets and/or 2-3 kill rigs for example. And hopefully avoiding AoC armies.

Otherwise, for a more melee focussed list, a regular warboss is probably a more effective option.

Also about banners; Speed mobs cant run banners due to lack of infantry.

Bits would be good for them in this regard, if you can keep your bikers alive.