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Made in gb
Been Around the Block





Hi guys, what can the ork trukk boyz do after disembarking a trukk thats moved? Move, advance, shoot, charge, or all? Iv heard so many mixed reviews and wondering if anyone knows? Or if iv missed an faq on this? Thanks.
   
Made in gb
Deadly Dire Avenger




They can do anything any other unit can do after disembarking, as per p211 of the Core rulebook.

The timing of their disembark is just different, in as much as they can disembark after the transport moves instead of before.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/29 08:16:18


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Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut



Bamberg / Erlangen

If this transport made a Normal Move, Advanced or Fell Back this turn, embarked units are considered to have done the same.

Disagree, they can disembark, shoot (counting as having moved this turn), charge and fight.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/29 12:01:13


   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block





There really needs to be an faq because these two answers are what i keep seeing, im leaning more towards the 'just shoot and charge' but could do with some clarification from GW on this
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






If they are considered to have moved, then that suggests that they cannot be selected to move again - they already did!

RAI is almost certainly that they disembark, shoot, then charge, with no extra movement for the boys.

12,300 points of Orks
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Made in gb
Been Around the Block





 some bloke wrote:
If they are considered to have moved, then that suggests that they cannot be selected to move again - they already did!

RAI is almost certainly that they disembark, shoot, then charge, with no extra movement for the boys.


Thanks i did think that but was just double checking
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut



Bamberg / Erlangen

I don't even think it's a RAW Vs RAI situation here. What other effect would it have on the embarked unit, if "you can't move, advance, fall back again separately, including the relevant limitations following that action" is not the effect of "being considered to have done so"?

   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

 some bloke wrote:
If they are considered to have moved, then that suggests that they cannot be selected to move again - they already did!
Any unit that disembarks from a Transport "can then move normally (move, shoot, charge, fight, etc.) in the remainder of the turn". As Trukk Boyz doesn't say otherwise, they are allowed to do the same.

Don't bother bringing up the rules for an embarked unit being considered to have made the same move at the Transport. Once they disembarked, they are not an Embarked unit and those rules no longer apply to them.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut



Bamberg / Erlangen

"You are considered to have moved. Unless you disembark after the move, then we forget that you did move and you can move again" does not sound convincing to me.

RAW
Embark
For all rules purposes, units that are embarked within a TRANSPORT model that has made a Normal Move, Advanced, Fallen Back or Remained Stationary also count as having made the same kind of move that turn.
---
Disembark
Units that disembark can then act normally (move, shoot, charge, fight, etc.) in the remainder of the turn, but its models count as having moved that turn, even if they are not moved further (i.e. they never count as having Remained Stationary).


The rules allow you to move after you disembark, but not to move twice in one turn. Since the transport moved, the embarked unit moved as well already before disembarking.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/29 15:15:55


   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

MadSpy wrote:
They can do anything any other unit can do after disembarking, as per p211 of the Core rulebook.

The timing of their disembark is just different, in as much as they can disembark after the transport moves instead of before.


This is the correct answer. It’s no more complicated than this.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut



Bamberg / Erlangen

Why ignore the part where it says that the unit already moved that turn?

   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

Because they are not an Embarked unit once they have Disembarked.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

This. You’re applying a rule for embarked units to one that is not embarked. I’m ignoring nothing and you’re applying a rule that is not relevant, a_typical_hero.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut



Bamberg / Erlangen

Let me quote myself:
a_typical_hero wrote:
Embark
For all rules purposes, units that are embarked within a TRANSPORT model that has made a Normal Move, Advanced, Fallen Back or Remained Stationary also count as having made the same kind of move that turn.

The embarked unit counts as having moved that turn. Why should it not count anymore because it disembarks?

At the moment you are just stating an opinion without any rules to back it up.

(1) The transport moves -> The embarked unit counts as having moved that turn as well.
(2) The embarked units disembarks because of special rules -> it can act normally, already having moved in that turn, since the transport moved (1).

   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

a_typical_hero wrote:
Let me quote myself:
a_typical_hero wrote:
Embark
For all rules purposes, units that are embarked within a TRANSPORT model that has made a Normal Move, Advanced, Fallen Back or Remained Stationary also count as having made the same kind of move that turn.

The embarked unit counts as having moved that turn. Why should it not count anymore because it disembarks?

At the moment you are just stating an opinion without any rules to back it up.

(1) The transport moves -> The embarked unit counts as having moved that turn as well.
(2) The embarked units disembarks because of special rules -> it can act normally, already having moved in that turn, since the transport moved (1).
  • Because they are not an Embarked unit when you go to move them.
  • Because the rules for Disembarking allow you to move normally after you disembark.

  • We can correctly state that a unit that disembarks from a transport is no longer a unit Embarked in a Transport. Why would the rules for an Embarked unit apply to one that isn't Embarked? It doesn't state that effect last until the end of the turn, even if the unit disembarks.
       
    Made in gb
    Decrepit Dakkanaut




    Units that ARE embarked....
    Once they disembark they are no longer a unit that "are" embarked. This none of that rule applies to them.
       
    Made in gb
    [DCM]
    Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





    Leicester, UK

    I can see both positions are they are equally valid. This definately needs an FAQ. Hard to say which line GW will take if they do. In the meantime, I would suggest playing the version that gives you the least advantage, whether it's you or you opponent playing orks, to be a good sport, or asking the TO at a tourney before the game starts.

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    Made in gb
    Decrepit Dakkanaut




    I disagree that they're equally valid

    It says units that are embarked
    Once they disembark they are not longer a unit that ARE embarked, they are a unit that WERE embarked.
       
    Made in de
    Longtime Dakkanaut



    Bamberg / Erlangen

     alextroy wrote:
    It doesn't state that effect last until the end of the turn, even if the unit disembarks.
    a_typical_hero wrote:
    For all rules purposes, units that are embarked within a TRANSPORT model that has made a Normal Move, Advanced, Fallen Back or Remained Stationary also count as having made the same kind of move that turn.

    It literally says that the unit counts as having moved that turn. "That turn" being limited to the "turn time spend inside the transport" would need to be spelled out explicitely.

    That you are able to "act normally" after disembarking is not contradicting with my argument. The way you act normally (moving, in this case), after you already did move once with that unit in that turn, is to not move again.


    I said everything I got to say in regards to that topic, since we are running around in circles. Until a FAQ comes out, people can decide which train of thoughts makes more sense to them in their games.

       
    Made in us
    Captain of the Forlorn Hope





    Chicago, IL

    The RAW says:
    Disembark
    Units that disembark can then act normally (move, shoot, charge, fight, etc.) in the remainder of the turn, but its models count as having moved that turn, even if they are not moved further (i.e. they never count as having Remained Stationary).

    Units that disembark can then act normally, so they are allowed to move.

    Basically you said
    a_typical_hero wrote:
    The rules allow you to move after you disembark, but not to move twice in one turn. Since the transport moved, the embarked unit moved as well already before disembarking.
    If you think they can not move after disembarking, then the part that says "Units that disembark can then act normally" would be meaningless as they could not move. since after disembarking from a stationary transport, the models count as having moved that turn...

    The transport moving or not still says " its models count as having moved that turn, even if they are not moved further"


    "Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

    I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

    We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
     
       
    Made in de
    Longtime Dakkanaut



    Bamberg / Erlangen

     DeathReaper wrote:
    If you think they can not move after disembarking, then the part that says "Units that disembark can then act normally" would be meaningless as they could not move. since after disembarking from a stationary transport, the models count as having moved that turn...

    The transport moving or not still says " its models count as having moved that turn, even if they are not moved further"

    It would not be meaningless, as you can always disembark before the transport itself moved.

    Starting in a transport -> the transport moves -> the embarked unit counts as having moved this turn -> the embarked unit disembarks -> it can act normally, already having moved that turn.
    Starting in a transport -> the embarked unit disembarks ->it can act normally, not having moved that turn already -> it counts as having moved even if it is not moved any further.

       
    Made in us
    Captain of the Forlorn Hope





    Chicago, IL

    a_typical_hero wrote:
     DeathReaper wrote:
    If you think they can not move after disembarking, then the part that says "Units that disembark can then act normally" would be meaningless as they could not move. since after disembarking from a stationary transport, the models count as having moved that turn...

    The transport moving or not still says " its models count as having moved that turn, even if they are not moved further"

    It would not be meaningless, as you can always disembark before the transport itself moved.

    Starting in a transport -> the transport moves -> the embarked unit counts as having moved this turn -> the embarked unit disembarks -> it can act normally, already having moved that turn.
    Starting in a transport -> the embarked unit disembarks ->it can act normally, not having moved that turn already -> it counts as having moved even if it is not moved any further.
    Emphasis mine.

    The underlined is exactly correct.

    If the transport moves "the embarked unit disembarks -> it can act normally, already having moved that turn." So it gets to move.
    If the transport does not move, it can act normally, not having moved that turn already -> it counts as having moved even if it is not moved any further. So it gets to move.

    You switched your position.
    a_typical_hero wrote:
    The rules allow you to move after you disembark, but not to move twice in one turn.
    You have changed you mind, then this is settled.

    "Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

    I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

    We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
     
       
    Made in us
    Confessor Of Sins





    Tacoma, WA, USA

    a_typical_hero wrote:
     alextroy wrote:
    It doesn't state that effect last until the end of the turn, even if the unit disembarks.
    a_typical_hero wrote:
    For all rules purposes, units that are embarked within a TRANSPORT model that has made a Normal Move, Advanced, Fallen Back or Remained Stationary also count as having made the same kind of move that turn.

    It literally says that the unit counts as having moved that turn. "That turn" being limited to the "turn time spend inside the transport" would need to be spelled out explicitely.

    That you are able to "act normally" after disembarking is not contradicting with my argument. The way you act normally (moving, in this case), after you already did move once with that unit in that turn, is to not move again.

    I said everything I got to say in regards to that topic, since we are running around in circles. Until a FAQ comes out, people can decide which train of thoughts makes more sense to them in their games.
    The point is that rule only applies to units that are embarked. The moment they are not embarked, the rule doesn't apply to them. If it said "units that are embarked within a TRANSPORT model that makes a Normal Move, Advanced, Fallen Back or Remained Stationary also count as having made the same kind of move until the end of the turn", you'd have a point. But that's not what it says.
       
    Made in de
    Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






    The actual rule that supposedly disallows moving twice says this:

    No unit can be selected to move more than once in each Movement phase.


    The trukkboy unit has never been selected during the movement phase, so it doesn't matter whether it counts as having made some sort of move. You still have permission to select and move it.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/10 14:40:15


    7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
    Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
    A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
    Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
    Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
    Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
    Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
    Orks do not have the power of believe. 
       
    Made in gb
    Longtime Dakkanaut






    UK

    On a related Trukk Boyz note, I was confused by the rules.

    1) You have to swap out the <Clan> keyword to become a Specialised Mob
    2) Trukks can carry only <Clan> or Freebooterz infantry

    Have I missed something, or are Trukk boyz useless?

       
    Made in gb
    Moustache-twirling Princeps




    United Kingdom

     Slinky wrote:
    On a related Trukk Boyz note, I was confused by the rules.

    1) You have to swap out the <Clan> keyword to become a Specialised Mob
    2) Trukks can carry only <Clan> or Freebooterz infantry

    Have I missed something, or are Trukk boyz useless?



    The FAQ fixed that:

    Page 118 – Trukk, Transport Change the first sentence to: ‘This model has a transport capacity of 12 Flash Gitz, Specialist Mob Infantry or <Clan> Infantry models.’

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/15 12:08:36


     
       
    Made in it
    Waaagh! Ork Warboss




    Italy

    FAQ fixed trukk boyz and any other specialist mob that has access to a trukk but they can't still be embarked in another type of <Klan> transport. No pyromaniacs burnaboyz or big krumpaz meganobz in a battle wagon for example. Or inside a naut.

     
       
    Made in de
    Longtime Dakkanaut



    Bamberg / Erlangen

    Black Templar got a reworked stratagem called "Shock & Awe" which allows a unit to disembark from a LRC after the transport made a normal move this turn. It specifically says that the disembarking unit cannot make a normal move itself afterwards.

    As this part is missing in the Trukk Boyz rule, I change my stance on it. They can move, advance, charge after disembarking.

       
     
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