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chaos0xomega wrote:
It means that theres a small group of people that would consider touching it with a 10 foot pole, while most people want nothing to do with the game because of how unstable its history has been.

Does that really make it toxic?

I mean, there are other games that have gone through shaky times and I've never seen anyone use the parlance you're using.

Parente has always been a better drama queen then running a business.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
It means that theres a small group of people that would consider touching it with a 10 foot pole, while most people want nothing to do with the game because of how unstable its history has been.

Does that really make it toxic?

I mean, there are other games that have gone through shaky times and I've never seen anyone use the parlance you're using.

It isn't a matter of the game being "shaky". It's a matter of partnering up on multiple occasions, and having each of those partnerships collapse. Everyone who tries to partner with Dust ends up running away from it before long.

It might be a difference between how I'm using the word toxic and how you're understanding it. I don't mean toxic as in "this community is toxic and bad for my mental health", I mean toxic as in "do not touch, hazardous, keep your distance, stay away". Sometimes also referred to as "radioactive".

Nobody wants to touch Dust outside of its core following, most distributors don't want to distribute it, most retailers don't want to retail it, most collectors don't want to collect it, etc. Not because of any woke gak or because Paolo has a bad attitude or something, simply because consumers don't want to buy into a game that seems to go bust every 2-3 years, this hobby is too expensive to invest into something with such a short shelf life. In turn retailers won't carry it because they don't want to get burned by unsellable inventory or inventory which only sells at a loss. As such distributors won't carry it because they have nobody to sell it to and don't want to carry product that eats up footprint in a warehouse and never moves.

Its a vicious cycle and a self-fulfilling prophecy - the customer base won't buy it because they believe it will fail, so retail and distribution channels won't carry it because they can't make money from it, which makes it harder to notice and harder to acquire, which reinforces the perception of it as a failing product line, which makes it even harder to sell, until the crunch finally cuts in too deep and the game gets shut down.

Toxic. Radioactive. Do Not Touch.

chaos0xomega wrote:


Toxic. Radioactive. Do Not Touch.

I don't buy that it's that toxic. Even freaking Confrontation, which the previous owner actually scammed people for money, doesn't have the level of negativity about it.

Both Miniature Market and Noble Knight stock it. Those are the two largest stores.

Paolo is someone though that shouldn't be involved in running a businesses as much as he is. People say drama queen but honestly he's just like a lot of artists I know and other's I've seen in this industry that are amazing at creating the product but really just cannot grasp how companies actually work and sell products which usually leads to the conflicts or the company shutting down (if they're in charge). His talent is hard to deny. Just compare what exists for dust to it's competitors, like Konflict, and it's pretty embarrassing for the other lines with how dynamic and/or detailed stuff is. I feel that his riffs are partly due to the cost/detail for the mech/vehicles that really price a lot of people out of the product which the other companies weren't happy with.

Shame, especially given it's a game that Angela from Hobby Night just spruiked for not two weeks ago on her channel:

Perhaps a perfect candidate for a 3D printing Patreon/MyMiniFactory store. Just Paolo and sculptors making models, and you handle the manufacturing and distribution from your basement printer setup to your dining room to play with.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:


Toxic. Radioactive. Do Not Touch.

I don't buy that it's that toxic. Even freaking Confrontation, which the previous owner actually scammed people for money, doesn't have the level of negativity about it.

This one bit right here makes half the difference. As long as Paolo is involved its not going anywhere. IF - and thats a HUGE if - he completely divorced himself from it, sold the IP, wasn't involved in any future development, had zero input, etc. then you might see people more willing to take the risk, but while theres even the slightest possibility that he could cause another shitstorm people won't touch it. As far as Confrontation is concerned - the current owner has nothing to do with what the previous owner did, and thats why people are still willing to give it a chance - but even then theres still a lot of folks out there who wont.

Not surprised to see this happen, again. The company did some odd things in the past, like that "subscriber" service that got you what again?

chaos0xomega wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
... and the game/product line is a toxic commodity amongst the community at large outside of its own small cult following.

What does that even mean?

It means that theres a small group of people that would consider touching it with a 10 foot pole, while most people want nothing to do with the game because of how unstable its history has been.

The game was around for over a decade, i came into it after the kickstarter issue so i had no pre-set view of the game good or bad.

The models are of high quality with a mind to different levels of "hobby VS play" gamers because you could buy standard kits at the lowest price point, mid range with the pre-assembled and primed, or pay GW prices for completely painted finished minis. Building an army is easy to do from small skirmish level all the way up to full army level.

The gameplay is incredibly good with hard counters and good internal balance. it is a nice in-between point between the less crunchy older editions of 40K (i like to think of it as what 8th would have been if Andy was still at GW) where you could play a large game relatively fast but having some elements that make the game infinity good(alternating activations, multiple actions per activation, reactive actions etc..). the fact that Andy Chambers stepped in to make the 3d terrain rules was a big bonus


LIke many other games, the reason why people didn't do anything with the game is because
1.they didn't know about it
2.had seen the minis but had never played the game (or just used the minis for something else)
3.were to involved in other game systems to want to branch out into something "new"
4.the setting is alternate history WWII and many players are not into historicals even with a scifi twist or they already play more normal historicals like bolt action or flames of war.
5.were warned away because of the kickstarter "issue"

In my experience over the last few years. once people actually play the game they absolutely love it.

I have gotten many players into the game who have gone on to build up nice collections. That is what makes it so bad. i have 4 full armies and i love to play it and teach people to play it, as i said with good results, now it will fall into the same place as Paolo's other game (AT-43) where finding the specific minis you need will become incredibly hard because they will be the ones people still playing will not part with, and with no new stock coming what is available will dry up over time.


This was a cascade effect. i saw all the designs on the books from 2019- IJN battle robots, a P61 phaser black widow heavy plane for the allies etc...i was really looking forward to. the combination of the events over the last 2 years related to the pandemic became to much. my online interactions last year with the staff dealt mostly with trying to get things up and running again to restock supply. in the end they could not save it. same thing that happened to secret weapon (really wanted those HD bases).

 Esmer wrote:
Is, or rather, was (or rather, will be, apparently) this franchise in any way related to the also defunct AT-43 franchise?

Somehow, the art style and miniatures always remind me of it.

That would be because Paolo did the art for AT-43. Dust is actually the original idea for AT-43(originally meant to stand for Alternate Timeline-1943), which is why so many ideas and designs in the two look so similar.

 Stormonu wrote:

As the poster above said, I'm sure we'll see another "what-if" WW2 game from him when the world rights itself once again.

Do we need another "what-if" WW2 game though?

 Monkeysloth wrote:

I don't buy that it's that toxic. Even freaking Confrontation, which the previous owner actually scammed people for money, doesn't have the level of negativity about it.

Both Miniature Market and Noble Knight stock it. Those are the two largest stores.

Confrontation (and to lesser extent these days, Warzone) was/is in the unique position of having been a massive property until it's closure 10 years ago with a fanbase that has been nostalgic for it since day 1. There is a lot of good-will for each consecutive flop to burn through before the reality sets in. Dust already went through series of small-scale flops, and it was never anywhere near that big and popular. Add to that barely-existing distribution and internet drama, and you got a game a lot of people will be unwilling to go into.
Then again, Robotech from Palladium got KS'd so what do I know.

And Dust, unlike Confrontation, is also still headed by the same person who keeps causing it to flop.

I was part of the Kickstarted disaster.

I liked it going into the Kickstarter- played a few games and loved the look/style of the game.

The Kickstarter killed it for me. I hate drama. HATE IT.

Sad to see it go, and wish it would come back in a different form. But as long as Paulo heads it, I really don't want anything to do with it.

I got what I had ordered through the Kickstarter and was very impressed by the models.

For me it was different to Mailstrom games who took my money, folded and then set themselves up again.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
And Dust, unlike Confrontation, is also still headed by the same person who keeps causing it to flop.

I doubt this time it was hes fault. Having a model factory in china is not a good thing for the past 2 years, and wont be for the next 2-3 years as global sea shipping is one small step away from total collaps.
The biggest question is why abandon the game completely and not just partner up with a 3D print file sharing service?, cus there is a marked for this game as there is no other viable alternatives on the current marked.

Not all of us are into the hobby aspect, but we do want to play the games.

Well. Must be tuesday.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
And Dust, unlike Confrontation, is also still headed by the same person who keeps causing it to flop.

I doubt this time it was hes fault. Having a model factory in china is not a good thing for the past 2 years, and wont be for the next 2-3 years as global sea shipping is one small step away from total collaps.
The biggest question is why abandon the game completely and not just partner up with a 3D print file sharing service?, cus there is a marked for this game as there is no other viable alternatives on the current marked.

Not all of us are into the hobby aspect, but we do want to play the games.

Depends on how the game has actually folded, if he's paid off all debts and shuttered the company it could be restarted and he'd still own the IP and assets, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were creditors in which case the whole thing will be tied up in whatever jurisdiction it's registered in (Hong Kong?), and will probably end up with somebody else owning the concept, tooling etc

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 FrozenDwarf wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
And Dust, unlike Confrontation, is also still headed by the same person who keeps causing it to flop.

I doubt this time it was hes fault. Having a model factory in china is not a good thing for the past 2 years, and wont be for the next 2-3 years as global sea shipping is one small step away from total collaps.
The biggest question is why abandon the game completely and not just partner up with a 3D print file sharing service?, cus there is a marked for this game as there is no other viable alternatives on the current marked.

Not all of us are into the hobby aspect, but we do want to play the games.

Depends on how the game has actually folded, if he's paid off all debts and shuttered the company it could be restarted and he'd still own the IP and assets, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were creditors in which case the whole thing will be tied up in whatever jurisdiction it's registered in (Hong Kong?), and will probably end up with somebody else owning the concept, tooling etc

If he is smart, which I think he is from the Art side of things, He probably still owns the rights to all his artwork. He could sell it to the company for use in the game and still retain full rights to it. But really, I think he's free to draw WWII tanks and planes that have legs and busty women in skimpy clothes carrying huge wrenches no matter what. Nobody that I know of can copyright/patent or claim exclusivity to WWII Era machines that have been modified.

Cronch wrote:

Confrontation (and to lesser extent these days, Warzone) was/is in the unique position of having been a massive property until it's closure 10 years ago with a fanbase that has been nostalgic for it since day 1. There is a lot of good-will for each consecutive flop to burn through before the reality sets in. Dust already went through series of small-scale flops, and it was never anywhere near that big and popular. Add to that barely-existing distribution and internet drama, and you got a game a lot of people will be unwilling to go into.
Then again, Robotech from Palladium got KS'd so what do I know.

Closer to 20 years now for Confrontation, and over 20 for Warzone...

Which reminds me, isn't about time someone announced they were relaunching Warzone again with fantastic models and won't repeat the errors of the past?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Which reminds me, isn't about time someone announced they were relaunching Warzone again with fantastic models and won't repeat the errors of the past?

The current attempt hasn't failed yet. Be patient.

Huh, I honestly thought they went out of business after the Kickstarter fiasco. Never really followed the game, as WWII based wargames aren't really my thing, but they had some cool miniatures from what I recall.

One thing that's not really being talked about is Dust Studios work outside of Dust 1947.

Dust Studios was primarily a manufacturing shop. They also had worked with a lot of high profile miniature Kickstarters and other board games to tool their miniature molds in-house and coordinated with Ludo Fact to manufacture/package them. That, I'm sure was more core to their business than the Dust 1947 game.

Their closure points to a pretty large shift in the board/miniature game industry which has relied on manufacturing in China now facing crippling cost increases in shipping, labor and materials. The board/miniature game industry had seen a large boom until recently due to those rising costs. It'll be interesting to see what comes next.

Say what you will about Dust Studios' collaborations with FFG and Battlefront for Dust game rules, but Dust Studios had done a lot of great work in the background on the manufacturing side of the industry, collaborating with many other companies, to bring many great looking yet affordable miniatures to many miniature-based games.

carboncopy wrote:
One thing that's not really being talked about is Dust Studios work outside of Dust 1947.

Dust Studios was primarily a manufacturing shop. They also had worked with a lot of high profile miniature Kickstarters and other board games to tool their miniature molds in-house and coordinated with Ludo Fact to manufacture/package them. That, I'm sure was more core to their business than the Dust 1947 game.

Their closure points to a pretty large shift in the board/miniature game industry which has relied on manufacturing in China now facing crippling cost increases in shipping, labor and materials. The board/miniature game industry had seen a large boom until recently due to those rising costs. It'll be interesting to see what comes next.

Say what you will about Dust Studios' collaborations with FFG and Battlefront for Dust game rules, but Dust Studios had done a lot of great work in the background on the manufacturing side of the industry, collaborating with many other companies, to bring many great looking yet affordable miniatures to many miniature-based games.

To be fair, when someone is called "Dust Studios", they're going to be mostly associated with Dust '47 and it's less-than-stellar history, even if purely because of the name.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

carboncopy wrote:
One thing that's not really being talked about is Dust Studios work outside of Dust 1947.

Dust Studios was primarily a manufacturing shop. They also had worked with a lot of high profile miniature Kickstarters and other board games to tool their miniature molds in-house and coordinated with Ludo Fact to manufacture/package them. That, I'm sure was more core to their business than the Dust 1947 game.

Their closure points to a pretty large shift in the board/miniature game industry which has relied on manufacturing in China now facing crippling cost increases in shipping, labor and materials. The board/miniature game industry had seen a large boom until recently due to those rising costs. It'll be interesting to see what comes next.

Say what you will about Dust Studios' collaborations with FFG and Battlefront for Dust game rules, but Dust Studios had done a lot of great work in the background on the manufacturing side of the industry, collaborating with many other companies, to bring many great looking yet affordable miniatures to many miniature-based games.

To be fair, when someone is called "Dust Studios", they're going to be mostly associated with Dust '47 and it's less-than-stellar history, even if purely because of the name.

Right, and the point of my post was to give some recognition to the studio for their lesser-known work, beyond the more dramatic news that gets associated with them.

carboncopy wrote:
One thing that's not really being talked about is Dust Studios work outside of Dust 1947.

Dust Studios was primarily a manufacturing shop. They also had worked with a lot of high profile miniature Kickstarters and other board games to tool their miniature molds in-house and coordinated with Ludo Fact to manufacture/package them. That, I'm sure was more core to their business than the Dust 1947 game.

Their closure points to a pretty large shift in the board/miniature game industry which has relied on manufacturing in China now facing crippling cost increases in shipping, labor and materials. The board/miniature game industry had seen a large boom until recently due to those rising costs. It'll be interesting to see what comes next.

Say what you will about Dust Studios' collaborations with FFG and Battlefront for Dust game rules, but Dust Studios had done a lot of great work in the background on the manufacturing side of the industry, collaborating with many other companies, to bring many great looking yet affordable miniatures to many miniature-based games.

These are some really interesting details. Thank you for posting. I had no idea.

Do we really know about the KS drama in fact? Dust Studio was Paulo's manufacturing company, and I have several games where the plastic was made by them (CMON uses them too sometimes) and post the battlefront fiasco tons of game company's still worked with him makes you think if people here are being unfair to him. If Paulo was causing fake drama over billing with Battlefront why would anyone work him again when there were plenty other options? No one else seams to have had an issue with Dust Studio manufacturing outside of this KS. I know people here use to make fun of Battlefront for being basically incompetent before this KS.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Lucas Blackwolf wrote:
There is a certain calming quality, in these times, when some things are seen to return to their regular ways ... Such as Dust going out of business again.
I love Parente's art direction of this game, but I'd also love for it to be produced by Wargames Atlantic in reasonably priced plastic and with established distribution channels. Perhaps in one of the future iterations eh?

WGA doesn't do vehicles though, at best they do like, Machine Gun emplacements or Sci-Fi Field Cannons.

Yet.

The original DUST Tactics Game is still rate as the best tabletop game I've played, I had so much fun with this. I still have the original 2-Player Set, and then went to buy all the expansions. It really made you think about the choices you made, and even when you're down to your last model facing unreal odds, there is always that chance you could still steal the win.

It's a shame to see them go. I amost back the KS, but then decided not to as I'd moved onto Kingdom Death and was focusing on that. Glad I didn't back it. I think the biggest problem with DUST was no one knew about it. Certaintly I struggled to find opponents in the UK.