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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Has your take hone pay increased by 200% in the last 5 years?
And that's the rub, really. Costs are increasing, wages are doing little to follow suit. It's like everyone getting a pay cut.

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The Great State of New Jersey

JWBS wrote:
but not addressing the fact that it's an effective monopoly (you've even said yourself that the unsibsidised competitors can sell at a lower price and the subsidised brands are just gouging based on their position in an uncompetetive market where the state mandates that their product be subsidised, then buys their product).


Unsubsidized competitors can sell at whatever price they and their retailers choose to set for the products in question. The MSRP (RRP for you tea-drinking types) for both the subsidized and unsubsidized products doesn't change on the basis of contracts and the brands aren't setting the market price to consumers for those goods based on that criteria. Ultimately the retail price is being set by the retailers outside of the purview of the brands themselves. Framing it as "the unsubsidized competitors can sell at a lower price" is an interesting but extremely misleading twist of the facts - theres no evidence to suggest that competitors prices are being purposefully lowered by retailers relative to the contract brand (in fact, data from the studies conducted on this show that the price of these items remains nationally consistent with MSRP in markets where they aren't subsidized), instead the *subsidized brands* price is being *raised* by the *retailers* who carry it, which is an entirely different market effect altogether. Even if that weren't a case, "our competitors sell at a lower price" doesn't meet any criteria for a monopoly, especially not when the manufacturers profit margins are wholly unaffected by the retail price - manufacturers get their wholesale price either way.

In general, you don't seem to have understood the structure of the contracts or how the subsidy functions (despite what I thought was a simplified fairly straightforward explanation of it). Your attempt to frame it as though the subsidized brands are somehow making money off the government by gouging them with higher prices in a "non-competitive" market is hilariously wrong and the system simply does not work the way you think it does - the only people potentially making money off of this are the retailers. If a retailer doubles the price of the subsidized brand, the manufacturer does not see a penny more in profit than they would have if the retailer left the price at MSRP. The difference between the retail price and the MSRP is a profit 100% pocketed by the retailer and the retailer only. In reality, study has found that even though the contract brand tends to have a higher retail price than non-contract brands, in many cases the average retail price for both contract and non-contract brands is *lower* than the MSRP - and often lower than the wholesale price of the formula because retailers tend to use formula as a loss-leader to drive sales of other goods, you come for the baby formula but stay for the sugary junk foods and cosmetics. There is a real concern that retailers can take advantage of the system by exorbitantly marking up the formula price knowing that the government will pay the full retail price for the formula, which is why we have so much data on this as Congress directed the USDA to study this stuff to make sure taxpayers weren't being bilked.

Due to the way the system works and the way the contract is structured and priced, there is no real room for the manufacturers to take advantage of the system, as the contract award is based on the "net price" which is the rebate vs the lowest national wholesale price for the formula (i.e. it includes the wholesale rate from states where it is *not* the contract brand) based on fixed volume criteria (wholesale unit price of a full truckload of the product, etc). Naturally, the contract is awarded to the lowest bidder, and there is strong incentive for the bidders to offer the lowest net price in order to win the contract as competition is fierce. As a result, the contract manufacturers often end up losing money on every unit of formula sold through the voucher program (QUOTE - “The dirty secret about WIC is these formula companies actually lose money on formula that they sell through WIC,” because the lowest bidder ends up winning the state contracts, explained a former Democratic Senate aide. “But what happens is… if you give birth in a hospital and you request formula, you’re going to get the formula that is whoever has the WIC contract,” allowing the formula makers to reach a massive pool of new customers. Getting a state WIC contract can also mean more favorable shelf space at retailers across the state and more brand loyalty."), but this is made up for by the non-subsidized sales volume of the contract formula. A good example is Connecticuts WIC contract with Similac - Connecticut receives an almost 100% rebate on formula sold through its voucher program, meaning that the rebate covers almost the full price that the government pays to the retailer for the formula - i.e. the entirety of the wholesale cost plus the majority of the retailers price markup (in general, formula has a low average retail markup of about 10% over wholesale), assuming that the retailer didn't actually mark *down* the price as a loss-leader as mentioned previously. As the average retail price of formula approximately 5x the cost to manufacture it, Connecticut is essentially getting formula for free from the manufacturer/the manufacturer is taking an actual hard loss on every unit that it sells through the state voucher program.



JWBS wrote:
Wrong about what?


Almost everything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Has your take hone pay increased by 200% in the last 5 years?
And that's the rub, really. Costs are increasing, wages are doing little to follow suit. It's like everyone getting a pay cut.


Aye. I could rely on getting a minimum of a 3.5% raise every year (last year I got 22% and the year prior 19% thanks to back-to-back promotions) until this year when I got a measly 2.75% raise despite good performance review ratings. While 3.5%+ was definitely enough to outpace inflation in years prior, 2.75% this year is a huge pay cut vs current inflation and has really eroded into the gains I made in prior years.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/27 01:16:05


CoALabaer wrote:
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The key thing is, what can be done about it? The usual government / central bank response of “raise interest rates” won’t work, because this inflation is not being caused by too much free cash in the system. In fact, it would just make things worse by also increasing the cost of mortgages, etc.

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 Zed wrote:
*All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
 
   
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I decided some time ago to stop buying after Heresy box and a couple of other bits I'm waiting for. However since then I've added a couple more items to my shopping list (Avatar, latest killteam box, others), plus more new HH stuff like the Kratos etc so it looks like it may be endless for me, since they'll obviously make more stuff in the future that I will want to buy. I think I will have to just put a cap on my spending and leave it at that. £75 a month maybe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
chaos0xomega wrote:

JWBS wrote:
Wrong about what?


Almost everything.


Well, your full throated defence of the American formula market monopoly has been an absolute pleasure to read, so it hasn't been a total loss.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/27 09:39:22


 
   
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That you think it was a defense demonstrates how fundamentally you misunderstood what he was saying.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jadenim wrote:
The key thing is, what can be done about it? The usual government / central bank response of “raise interest rates” won’t work, because this inflation is not being caused by too much free cash in the system. In fact, it would just make things worse by also increasing the cost of mortgages, etc.
I could think of ideas, but that is a point where I feel I just don't have the expertise needed for my suggestions to mean anything. I'd hate to be a demonstration of Dunning Kruger effect.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/27 12:32:16


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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
That you think it was a defense demonstrates how fundamentally you misunderstood what he was saying.

Hope he sees this.
   
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NinthMusketeer is right tho.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
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The days of cheap and quick shipping are over, and it is time for all of us to adjust.

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chaos0xomega wrote:
NinthMusketeer is right tho.

I hope he seees this bro.
   
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The Great State of New Jersey

"I don't have a good counterargument and don't want to admit I'm wrong so I'm going to try to act unflappably cool and come across as an insufferable twatwaffle instead" is an interesting debate strategy, though I'm not sure its working out for you the way you want it to.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
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"I'm a bit of an explainer, an educator if you will, I like for others to know this about me so I'll elucidate, in a hilariously overwrought manner, the finer points of macroeconomics on the internets, including an explanation of the difference between a monoloply and an oligopoly to a native English speaker that has an IQ in excess of ninety" is an undertaking I can only admire.
   
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Wouldn't have had to "elucidate and educate" if your hot takes weren't so off-puttingly counterfactual ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
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I conceded the point several posts back but you're still going on and on and on in a tedious, predictable rythym (thankfully w/o the excessive length today). Okay, how about this - I'll say no more about it, literally nothing at all, including no response to your reply to this offer, and no response to your further (doubtless fascinating) thoughts and explanations on the subject. How's that? Is that acceptable to you? (>‿◕)
   
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chaos0xomega wrote:
"I don't have a good counterargument and don't want to admit I'm wrong so I'm going to try to act unflappably cool and come across as an insufferable twatwaffle instead" is an interesting debate strategy, though I'm not sure its working out for you the way you want it to.
It's bold move cotton, we'll see how that works out for him.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/27 19:30:18


Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

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 Jadenim wrote:
The key thing is, what can be done about it? The usual government / central bank response of “raise interest rates” won’t work, because this inflation is not being caused by too much free cash in the system. In fact, it would just make things worse by also increasing the cost of mortgages, etc.


I mean, at least in the US, we can point to 40 years of policy that lead exactly where we are today. . . We can also look at the laws/policies that brought us out of the Great Depression, and the business environments that created in the heights of the 1950s and 60s.

And then do that. . . but, ya know, with The Internet and all that. Obviously, even this comment is probably skirting dangerously close to the P word, but in many ways we really can "simply" look back at another time of great prosperity (for many), see what elements went into its creation, and adjust those ideas to more modern times.
   
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In theory sure, but I feel like if that were a viable path forward we wouldn't be in this situation now. I legitimately believe that -to a certain extent- we have to wait for things to get SO bad that people currently sitting on the sidelines realize there is a need to take action. As in, actually do something that matters, not just talk about it (no disrespect to anyone in this thread, of course; I have no idea what any of you do in real life).

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I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
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 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 Jadenim wrote:
The key thing is, what can be done about it? The usual government / central bank response of “raise interest rates” won’t work, because this inflation is not being caused by too much free cash in the system. In fact, it would just make things worse by also increasing the cost of mortgages, etc.


I mean, at least in the US, we can point to 40 years of policy that lead exactly where we are today. . . We can also look at the laws/policies that brought us out of the Great Depression, and the business environments that created in the heights of the 1950s and 60s.

And then do that. . . but, ya know, with The Internet and all that. Obviously, even this comment is probably skirting dangerously close to the P word, but in many ways we really can "simply" look back at another time of great prosperity (for many), see what elements went into its creation, and adjust those ideas to more modern times.

Economics is a famously complex discipline where even the best in the field, somewhat tongue in cheek, refer to it as far more an art than science. We would probably be living in an economic utopia if it could be distilled into simple elements but the variables are too numerous.
   
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The Land of the Rising Sun

My Econometrics teacher at college liked to say that Economics is a discipline very proficient at predicting the past.

Anyways shipping is one of the places were inflation is having a field day. Due to many reasons already touched upon everywhere the price of shipping a package has skyrocketed. Even in Japan, a country famous for stagflation, we are feeling it internally, and bringing anything from abroad is prohibitive. e.g. Mophidious is on a clearance sale. Siege of the Citadel game went from 200 to 120 pounds, but shipping to Japan went from 50 pounds last year to a staggering 119 pounds. It's not the only example. Almost anything coming from the US has been hit with big increases, KS is no longer an option for us JP players.

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UK

Another thing the war in Ukraine has done is given firms who have been absorbing price rises since covid hit a reason to raise prices

they had been keeping prices down as their competitors were all in an attempt to retain customers at least some of which had had a big financia hit (although some saved a bundle from not commuting)

but the war is a clear 'good' reason for putting prices up as not only does it actually put the firms costs up it's a clearly visible 'bad' event that provides a 'good reason' in consumers minds why prices are jumping (they may not be able to afford as much but they're much less likley to abandon a brand raising prices)

so you've had a fairly sudden hit of companies reclaiming the margins they had a couple of years ago

 
   
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 Miguelsan wrote:

Anyways shipping is one of the places were inflation is having a field day. Due to many reasons already touched upon everywhere the price of shipping a package has skyrocketed.


My father works in perhaps the most bougie industry ever (he fits and repairs golf clubs) and he was telling me some of the lengths his suppliers are going through to get him stock. Many of them manufacture in Japan, and elsewhere in Asia, and the global shipping problem has gotten to the point where some of these companies are finding it cheaper to use air freight for things that would normally go on a ship. Some of it considers the cost of space in a shipping container, but a lot more of it is down to an equation wherein a lack of income because things are not moving hurts more than paying fuel and exorbitant flight rates with having some income does.
   
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Removed.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/31 06:24:56


 
   
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Toowoomba, Australia

Interesting central banks trying to lower inflation with interest rate rises.

Never in any attempt anywhere has interest rate rises worked to lower inflation once inflation got going, unless they do a massive rise and get ahead.

Australia raised rates by 0.5% this week, that has no hope of catching inflation of 5%.
1% increase this month and another 1% each month until inflation started slowing might work.

until the governments stop printing and giving out free money we are stuck with inflation, everything else will make the situation worse or have no effect.

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 Waaagh_Gonads wrote:
Interesting central banks trying to lower inflation with interest rate rises.

Never in any attempt anywhere has interest rate rises worked to lower inflation once inflation got going, unless they do a massive rise and get ahead.

Australia raised rates by 0.5% this week, that has no hope of catching inflation of 5%.
1% increase this month and another 1% each month until inflation started slowing might work.

until the governments stop printing and giving out free money we are stuck with inflation, everything else will make the situation worse or have no effect.


Interest rate rises aren't the solution to the current problem, and the current problem isn't printing money.

The only thing a massive rise in interest rates will do is ensure a deep, drawn out recession.

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Toowoomba, Australia

 Baragash wrote:
 Waaagh_Gonads wrote:
Interesting central banks trying to lower inflation with interest rate rises.

Never in any attempt anywhere has interest rate rises worked to lower inflation once inflation got going, unless they do a massive rise and get ahead.

Australia raised rates by 0.5% this week, that has no hope of catching inflation of 5%.
1% increase this month and another 1% each month until inflation started slowing might work.

until the governments stop printing and giving out free money we are stuck with inflation, everything else will make the situation worse or have no effect.


Interest rate rises aren't the solution to the current problem, and the current problem isn't printing money.


The only thing a massive rise in interest rates will do is ensure a deep, drawn out recession.


For this inflationary episode I think that printing money played a huge role (although other factors were at play). For example (many tables linked as most are slightly different and have different time points but all show how massive the money printing was).
It started under Trump and worsened under Biden, so both sides of politics are to blame.


https://www.google.com.au/search?q=us+dollars+printed+by+year&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiH7pL4sp_4AhVIrmMGHbnKDoMQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=us+dollars+printed+by+year&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIFCAAQgAQ6BAgjECc6BggAEB4QBzoECAAQGFD2F1iPJWCiJmgAcAB4AIABmAGIAZ4LkgEEMC4xMJgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1nwAEB&sclient=img&ei=-WShYseNMcjcjuMPuZW7mAg&bih=937&biw=1920#imgrc=YOwEOB2M1pquwM

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/09 03:18:30


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 Waaagh_Gonads wrote:
Interesting central banks trying to lower inflation with interest rate rises.

Never in any attempt anywhere has interest rate rises worked to lower inflation once inflation got going, unless they do a massive rise and get ahead.

Australia raised rates by 0.5% this week, that has no hope of catching inflation of 5%.
1% increase this month and another 1% each month until inflation started slowing might work.

until the governments stop printing and giving out free money we are stuck with inflation, everything else will make the situation worse or have no effect.


There are two 'big' causes of inflation; demand-pull and cost-push. Demand-pull is when demand outpaces supply. Too many people chasing too few goods leads to rising prices for them. Take the EU for example; they're sanctioning Russian oil, and there is additional desire to find alternative sources even beyond legal requirements; so that demand has moved to other suppliers. Without a drastic increase in production, that means more people trying to buy the same non-Russian oil suitable for their refineries, so the price goes up for everyone - in effect, a bidding war. Another is chip supplies; there is a much higher demand for chip supplies than there is production capacity worldwide and has been for a while, so prices have shot up. Wheat and grains, particularly in areas where they were reliant on Ukrainian and Russian exports which are curtailed due to the black sea ports being full of mines right now, amongst other reasons.

Cost-push inflation is when the cost of making something goes up, so you have to raise the price to maintain the same profit margin. Obviously customers can be price sensitive, so often suppliers will try and buffer such price rises; riding out smaller bumps using their existing margin or taking temporary losses to maintain market share, but then big shifts when that is no longer an option. If we take the world oil price increase as an example, that then causes cost-push inflation in other areas, i.e. consumers of oil. Truckers pay more for fuel, they charge more for shipping. Higher costs for shipping raises costs for things that in themselves are fine.

Interest rate rises do act on demand-pull inflation; at its simplest, by increasing the costs of borrowing, you cut demand, both by business and consumers. e.g. higher mortgage payments? Less demand for houses (and less money for non-essential spending). However, and it's a biggie, it's not a quick impact; so you're not setting interest rates based on current demand, but on expected future demand. Plus you're managing demand for a whole economy with one big lever, so you can end up killing demand in areas that didn't need it, while not hitting overheating sectors enough that do. Whack it up too hard too fast, and you can hit people's confidence and crash demand way too hard. Kill demand, and you kill jobs. Plus its definitely an art, not a science, as it so much relies on prediction; and events have a nasty way of blowing that up. But generall you soften inflation with interest rate changes, you don't stop it in its tracks.

Post-covid we've seen an increase in demand-pull inflation, as people go back to doing things they used to and want to do again. As people feel more confident about the future, they spend more on non-essentials, also. Economic growth, and up to a point this is a good thing because it means jobs. This is one of the primary causes on inflation at the start of the year. Interest raises - and cutting stimulation (i.e. stopping printing money) - are normal tools to try and keep this managable, and is the main goal of raising rates right now. Covid meant all sorts of weird distortions to the world economy, and we're going to be working through those for a good while yet.

The bigger problem right now is cost-push inflation. The big driver here is energy costs (which were going up due to increased demand before the Russian war), but has gotten significantly worse due to sanctions. And there's more to come with natural gas, where the EU is a huge buyer of Russian supplies. Neon; ukraine was a huge supplier which just makes the chip situation worse. Fertiliser supply is massively affected. And you can't do anything about cost-push inflation with interest rate rises or ending stimulation, as it's not caused by demand which they manage.

We're developing into a type of stagflation; stubbornly rising prices, yet slowing growth or a retraction so demand-reduction isn't the solution. We had (well, still have!) issues managing the covid recovery, but that now is made far worse by the big spikes in cost-push inflation - and there's very little most anyone can do about it. Even if the war ended tomorrow, the west isn't going back to a pre-war relationship with Russia anytime soon, and that's going to have a major impact on energy supplies and prices for a while yet, along with the global shipping crisis, chip crisis (both covid related) and grain crisis (war related).

I calculated my personal inflation rate at 8.5% the other day - mostly energy and food. My pay is due to go up 0.5% this year. So yeah, that's meant significant cuts in pretty much all non-essentials. I've put money aside for the Heresy 2.0 box, which I have now spent; future hobby purchases are going to be on hold for a while!

The one good thing is that the current inflation spike is expected to be relatively temporary - once we finish absorbing the current round of price increases over the next 6-12 months due to rising energy costs etc, they shouldn't KEEP going up so much, absent a new crisis. Chip production is increasing to meet demand (which will take a year or two, but it will get there) and hopefully there's a solution to the grain crisis in Africa so there's not mass starvation, but there's some promising negotiations there being run by Turkey to allow Ukrainian supplies to resume. There will continue to be inflation from other causes, but it hopefully should be less eyewatering. Assuming no other global shocks happen for a year or two, which would be nice...

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2022/06/09 04:20:55


 
   
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Toowoomba, Australia

Arkhanist, I see you are from the UK.

What effect do you think lowering energy cost by removing green and social levies and VAT would have on inflation?

I am of the opinion that it is a lever that the government could use to remove a huge cost of living bill.

Australia removed half of their taxes at federal level for 6 months about 6 weeks ago and fuel immediately dropped about 10-15% and is still well below what it was at maximum.


Doing that at full amount on UK electricity amounts to about 25% of total price removed.

For fuel, Fuel duty is currently levied at a flat rate of 57.95p per litre for both petrol and diesel, while VAT at 20% is then charged on both the product price and the duty.


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When it comes to the UK specifically, yes, you could potentially reduce the impact on the cost of living in the short term by cutting levies and taxes on energy. However, they would be politically hard to reinstate.

They did cut UK fuel duty by 5p a couple of months ago (6p, after VAT) and the fuel companies mostly kept it and didn't lower prices.

Cutting the 'green crap' a decade ago was a previous response by the tories to an energy cost crisis - slashing investment on renewables and giving up on improving the dire state of UK housing insulation then (which was never reinstated), has led directly to a substantial higher exposure to natural gas prices in particular now to the tune of billions.

The previous pursuit of privatisation max also is bearing twisted fruit; we're fully exposed to global energy costs, despite being a substantial producer still of oil and gas from the north sea. France was able to cap their domestic energy rises to 4%, while the UK had a 54% rise a couple of months ago, and a similar one is coming in October.

We also need to press ahead with renewables and better efficiency for global warming, and we're absolutely out of time on that, even in the current crisis.

The UK gov has decided to go for a direct one-off payment to offset energy bills, biased mostly towards those on the lowest incomes after substantial pressure, which is at least fairly progressive. Personally I think they could do more, but my expectations that they actually give a toss about ordinary people are low, and it was only done to try and save Boris Johnson's skin from the partygate scandal.

Given they now seem determined to start a trade war with the EU over the Northern Ireland protocol they themselves negotiated (when the clear majority of NI people want to keep the protocol) to keep the brexit-ultra tory backbenchers happy, that will likely make things substantially worse.

Believe me, I am truly jealous NZ has Jacinda Ardern, and of Oz for getting rid of Morrison. Our Trump wannabe is still in power, for now.
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





 Baragash wrote:
 Waaagh_Gonads wrote:
Interesting central banks trying to lower inflation with interest rate rises.

Never in any attempt anywhere has interest rate rises worked to lower inflation once inflation got going, unless they do a massive rise and get ahead.

Australia raised rates by 0.5% this week, that has no hope of catching inflation of 5%.
1% increase this month and another 1% each month until inflation started slowing might work.

until the governments stop printing and giving out free money we are stuck with inflation, everything else will make the situation worse or have no effect.


Interest rate rises aren't the solution to the current problem, and the current problem isn't printing money.

The only thing a massive rise in interest rates will do is ensure a deep, drawn out recession.

Money is like any other good in the respect that when you increase the supply, the value goes down. This causes inflation, money is worth less so prices go up. High inflation as a result of turning on the money printer was predicted (it was a very safe prediction). The "Money printer wasn't a problem" is a party talking point that fools no one except those that are eager to spread the party line, for whatever reason (likely they just believe what they're told by the party).
   
Made in gb
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine





Well yes, increasing the money supply is inflationary due to the demand-pull effect - more money in the economy, increases demand for goods and services - more money chasing the same products drives up prices. That was the point!

Because covid was highly *deflationary*. We saw an absolutely huge drop in demand and economic activity. That could have led to an absolutely horrifying recession and job losses. Lowering interest rates wasn't much of an option left because that lever already got pulled hard due to the 2008 banking crisis. Another risk, which we did see happen in 2008 onwards was a liquidity crisis. Banks in particular stopped lending money; many businesses rely on short-term credit to operate, and loss of access to that caused significant damage to employment and wages. Pumping up cheap credit to banks offset that, and they wanted to avoid the same thing happening with covid.

Now, I'm not going to argue the world's central banks got it exactly right, or that some post-covid demand-pull inflation wasn't likely due the stimulation - growth and inflation are closely related - but you can't look at the money printing in isolation and ignore the risks they were trying to avoid. And inflation, while somewhat high at the start of the year, basically doubled after Russia invaded Ukraine and caused a 70's style energy shock. We're in a situation currently where employment is fairly good - we've avoided mass job losses - but real wages are taking a terrible beating. That is the big crisis to solve now, and is actually a bigger problem that's been going on for a long time now where capital has much more power and pays much lower taxes than labour (these are related!), so profits from growth go almost entirely to those with assets, and not those who work for a living. High inflation due to the energy and food crisis just makes it a lot more visible. Fixing *that* will take sustained government action, and the desire to actually do so against the interest of very wealthy, in contrast to the last 30 years. I can't say I'm actually expecting that they will, particularly in the UK.

   
 
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