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ive been looking at how to accomplish oil washes and have some questions that i have seen different opinions on and wonder if i can find any clarification here. do i need to apply a layer of varnish before i apply the oil wash? is there any consensus on the topic? what are the benefits to using a varnish? what happens if you dont use a varnish? any advice is appreciated.

You use thinner to thin out the oil or manipulate the oil paint, thinner will eat away accryllic or waterbased paint that is not protected by a layer of clearcoat. It follows the same prossess as enamel weathering.
Ofc the thinner will eat away the varnish aswell if used heavily, but for controlled usage it wont.

My experience is with enamels rather than oils but the thinner you use to remove is the same. I've never had an issue skipping the varnish stage, at all. But TBH it takes so little time to shoot a layer of varnish on that its worth doing just in case

I have had, for oil weathering, several times in the start, paint just stripped right off. Started doing a layer of varnish before the oil stage and never had any issues ever since.

I've tried soaking acrylic paint in odorless mineral spirits to see how much it degrades with no apparent result. So I would assume it depends on what type of thinner you use.

The main reason I varnish before oil washing is to help with cleanup. Without the varnish, the oil wash 'soaks in' to the paint (deposits pigment in the rough, matte surface of the paint) and becomes much harder to clean out with a cotton bud. With varnish, it easily wipes off and leaves the paint pristine underneath.

You don't need to use a varnish. It depends on the result you want. If you want a pure wash, a satin varnish is probably beneficial. If you want a filter/glaze/tint you could leave the varnish out. I often put oil washes over acrylics sans varnish, because I'm lazy. There aren't usually any issues with this, however, I would recommend allowing acrylic paints to cure for a good while before hitting them with oil thinners.

Depends on what you use to thin the oil paint.

Not sure I agree with the comments about thinners eating the acrylic. Most varnishes are made from the same medium used for the paint. If you look at Liquitex Gloss Varnish, for example, you will notice it's also described as a gloss medium. Mineral spirits are not going to do too much to acrylics, linseed oil will do nothing.

I use Weber Odorless Turpenoid for thinning oil paints to use as washes and glazes. It has no affect on acrylic paint, you can use it with or without a varnish. Just don't lick your brush, it's especially awful to taste.

The big question is what kind of a wash you are trying to do. You can use a wash to create shades and you can also do pin washes. With a shade, you want the paint to sit on top of an existing paint job and maybe wipe some of it away with a q-tip. In that case, no varnish is fine.

If you are looking to do pin washes, you are better off using a gloss varnish on the model before you apply it. The reason is surface tension, the wash will follow panel lines and other details of the model just by tapping a loaded brush against it. You can always put a satin or matte varnish on top of the finished product to get the gloss to go away.

Hope that helps.

As QAR and Tech said, it depends on what you want for the outcome.

White spirit doesn't affect acrylics and won't peel it off. So you won't ever have an issue with solvents as long as you aren't using like acetone or something.

Keep in mind, oils/enamels will affect matte finishes stronger than gloss finishes. If your paint is matte and you want a very light change to the model with the enamel, then you should gloss varnish. But that has nothing to do with solvents... that's just the way that matte surfaces and gloss surfaces interact with pigment.

to be honest, im not sure what im trying to do. maybe some lining, maybe some all over wash. im trying to paint up some death guard and im not happy with the results that im getting from normal washes and was wondering if i used an oil wash if it would be better. i figure you can remove the areas you dont like vs a traditional wash where you get what you get. i know what i want the end result to be, i just have no idea how to get there.

You don't need varnish to protect the base layers. Oil thinners will not damage acrylic paint. A gloss varnish layer will help the wash to flow more easily into the recesses, but honesly oil doesn't need it; the decreased surfacer tension of oils is one of the main benefits over acrylic, so as far as I'm concerned a varnish isn't needed.

I'm not really that sold on using oils as an all over wash tehn scrubbing it off personally; I'd rather just line the parts I want dark. Oils or enamels will make panel lining much easier, even if you don't removed any of it after the fact.

What are you not happy about with your acrylic washes? And what is the end result you're after? Washes aren't always the way to go.

 Peterhausenn wrote:
to be honest, im not sure what im trying to do. maybe some lining, maybe some all over wash. im trying to paint up some death guard and im not happy with the results that im getting from normal washes and was wondering if i used an oil wash if it would be better. i figure you can remove the areas you dont like vs a traditional wash where you get what you get. i know what i want the end result to be, i just have no idea how to get there.

Well... It sounds like your main problem is how the wash dulls the colors on the model. So two suggestions if you try oils. Thin it down to an ink consistency and let it fill cracks with capillary effect and wipe away excess. Or, use a satin varnish and then clean the model with your standard makeup sponges etc. That is the way to avoid the oil paint from doing the same thing as acrylics. You can always put a matt varnish over it once it's done to bring back the flat tones.

I routinely, as in everytime lol, airbrush Testors Dullcoat or even Glosscote heavily thinned with Laquer Thinner. Acrylics when dry are not affected. And I do spray it on a little wet.

This is what I am trying to accomplish with no success. On my test models when I try to line with a wash it doesn't flow well and when I do an all over wash it darkens the crevices while staining everything else as well leaving things mostly the same color. I am assuming that my techniques are part of the problem along with color choices. My hope is that through an oil wash I can do what I see being done on the various videos I have watched.

 Peterhausenn wrote:

Spoiler:

This is what I am trying to accomplish with no success. On my test models when I try to line with a wash it doesn't flow well and when I do an all over wash it darkens the crevices while staining everything else as well leaving things mostly the same color. I am assuming that my techniques are part of the problem along with color choices. My hope is that through an oil wash I can do what I see being done on the various videos I have watched.

What do you mean, "does not flow well" ?
The whole point of oil wash is that solvent is thinner than water and will flow very well into every crevasse.

The purpose for the all over wash is to tint the whole model and bring values closer together.


Perhaps this will help
skip to 7:08 and then to 10:51 he washes on white.
Wash is thinned down quite a bit, and applied selectively to every detail.

Here he covers entire model and then cleans it up. Skip to 14:35

If it's not flowing well, thin it more. I use a lot of thinner. Basically, if you're using the oil to panel line, it wants to be ridiculously thin.

If you want a grimdark type finish, a burnt sienna or burnt umber should work well or you can use the AK interactive enamels. Either way. Just test it before you go crazy. Paint a small extra piece of a marine in your color then coat and remove the oil/enamel. And then try one with a satin varnish before oiling/enameling and removing. Once you get your desired outcome you just do it that way.

So what I would do to achieve that typhus effect, is use the oil as a paint rather than a wash. So get your off white/bone tone down. Once that's cured, apply your oil, probably a burnt umber tone, to the areas you want darkened. Let it sit for 10 minutes to half an hour. Then take a soft make up brush and feather out the edges. this is almost s cheating way of getting a nice transition.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
So what I would do to achieve that typhus effect, is use the oil as a paint rather than a wash. So get your off white/bone tone down. Once that's cured, apply your oil, probably a burnt umber tone, to the areas you want darkened. Let it sit for 10 minutes to half an hour. Then take a soft make up brush and feather out the edges. this is almost s cheating way of getting a nice transition.

Cheating is the best way to paint imo. But yes this. Very much this.

I want to start by saying thank you for the help and suggestions. Considering the amount of sniping and aggression that can happen on this site it is quite pleasing to see that there are still those who are helpful.

Ok, what are the chances that I could achieve something comparable to that if I ditched the washes concept and went for contrast paint. Something like the Apothecary White or Skeleton Horde. I have watched a few videos and while I understand it won't be a one to one result I think it might be close enough so I can finally start painting my actual models instead of test pieces. Does anyone have any experience using contrasts paints that could tell me if this might work or if I'm just heading down a wrong path.

 Peterhausenn wrote:
I want to start by saying thank you for the help and suggestions. Considering the amount of sniping and aggression that can happen on this site it is quite pleasing to see that there are still those who are helpful.

Ok, what are the chances that I could achieve something comparable to that if I ditched the washes concept and went for contrast paint. Something like the Apothecary White or Skeleton Horde. I have watched a few videos and while I understand it won't be a one to one result I think it might be close enough so I can finally start painting my actual models instead of test pieces. Does anyone have any experience using contrasts paints that could tell me if this might work or if I'm just heading down a wrong path.

Glad to help, lolz
"aggression" We just never have issues in Paint and Modeling, and if we did then I must of missed it.

For contrast paints I love this video. Hope this will be inspirational.

I second that exact video above.

However, I've never been good enough with contrasts alone to get a good finish. I usually create my contrast paint, then use oil paint over it when it's dry to get my blends done and then go back to acrylics to finish the small stuff.

Then again, that style isn't for everyone and each person will need to try stuff out to find what works best for them. So watch a ton of YouTube videos. Squidmar, Marco Frisoni, Kujo etc... and try their styles out.

Thanks for the video. I have recently watched it along with quite a few painting how to's. To be honest I can barely mix paint to make different shades let alone make my own paint. I am also limited both by budget and access to supplies. Pretty much my only access to hobby paint is at a GW store a decent distance away via train. While I understand buying the medium and making my own would be cheaper in the long run I'm mostly just wanting something so I can put this project to bed and play with my models. That is why I started looking at washes and when I became uncertain I looked towards the contrast paint. Just something I can easily get and hopefully easily use. My hat goes off to all those that do this stuff and make it look so easy yet amazing.

Regardless of paint thinner breaking down acrylic paint (which I never had problems with) there is a better reason to apply varnish:

Acrylic paint does not dry to as smooth a finish as a layer of varnish does. The slightly fuzzy finish of the acrylic paint is filled in by the varnish, leaving you with a smooth surface for your oli paints or enamels.