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 Crimson wrote:
I play marines and I really don't like this. When was the last one released? Feels like it was just recently. I think I've literally not played a single game with the current one. I guess if you're super active player it makes sense, but for my super casual and sporadic gaming tendencies buying these books really doesn't make sense anymore.

SM 'dex was either the first or second released after Indomitus - while Indomitus was July 2020, the first Codexes were released in October 2020. Currently been out for ~1.25 years.

Truly, we needed another 2.0 marine dex.
Now will it be a csm 2.0 or another sm 2.0 situation? Who knows.

Obligatory "they're finally going to kill off Firstborn Marines" comment

Maybe it will be all Marines and Chaos Marines will be supplements

Not Online!!! wrote:
Truly, we needed another 2.0 marine dex.
Now will it be a csm 2.0 or another sm 2.0 situation? Who knows.

Yeah, could just be a "add new models, update a few rules" thing, or a complete rework. Either way, it'll be quite annoying for anyone who plays a faction that hasn't gotten their 9th edition codex yet.

 Esmer wrote:
Obligatory "they're finally going to kill off Firstborn Marines" comment

"We realise that a Marine army can be pretty intimidating for new players, so in the interest of accessibility we have made the difficult decision to move First Born units to Legends..."

Firstborn won't get squated when there's supposedly a bunch of 30k vehicles moving to plastic. They'll want to sell the Marine whales those for 40k as well, even if the buyer never so much as glances at 30k.

Us3Less wrote:
Ugh, it's absurd that Space Marines get two codices per edition apparently. Even more absurd that they get their second codex before some armies even get their first. Supposedly all the codices were done at the start of 9th to begin with, so it's just (supposedly) profits and (poor) logistics that makes the release schedule so frustrating. GW really knows how it can make its customers feel appreciated...

Supposedly lol. You believed that? Supposed by whom?

Feels like the following question should have been asked by now:

"Does that mean loyalists get their third wound before Chaos Marines get their second one?"

 Mr Morden wrote:
Maybe it will be all Marines and Chaos Marines will be supplements

I'm not as opposed to this idea as I should be.

tneva82 wrote:

Us3Less wrote:
Ugh, it's absurd that Space Marines get two codices per edition apparently. Even more absurd that they get their second codex before some armies even get their first. Supposedly all the codices were done at the start of 9th to begin with, so it's just (supposedly) profits and (poor) logistics that makes the release schedule so frustrating. GW really knows how it can make its customers feel appreciated...

Supposedly lol. You believed that? Supposed by whom?

IIRC that "all codexes were written together" thing came from one of the bigger community youtube channels when they first started discussing & reviewing the new edition. It was also phrased more like they "believe" it was the case, rather than anything GW have stated in public.

if all Codex were written together, we would not see the design shift over time

and all the Codex would have been play tested together and a 2 week FAQ would not be needed as those questions would have been asked long before the book went to print

that the basic design idea and models were all made at the beginning could be true, but if the full books were really written at the same time, GW is doing a much worse job than we already think

They probably had an idea for all the codex in the beginning - directions they would like to take them and maybe an outline for all of them.

Then naturally things change, they come up with new ideas, some things doesn't work as well in practice as in theory, and the end result doesn't always match the initial intention. It's how a design process works, that's nothing strange.

It's just unfortunate that it is so difficult to avoid the creep (alas, my poor Necrons). I don't think it's intentional, it's just a result of the drawn out release schedule.

Yes, a bit poor wording from my side. The playtesters at Tabletop Tactics mentioned they were part of the codex play testers. It's impossible to playtest something when there's not at least a concept of the codex. It is known that things have changed (for better but more likely worse) between the playtested codices and the final products. But all the concepts being in place was what I meant with 'written'.

A different question about the coming preorders this Saturday. I'm interested in the fancy version of the Triumph of Saint Katherine. Are such versions only available from the Games Workshop website? And preorders come online at 11:00 AM correct? I've read posts here about similar releases that would sell out quickly, so I want to try and be as much on time as possible.

Us3Less wrote:
Yes, a bit poor wording from my side. The playtesters at Tabletop Tactics mentioned they were part of the codex play testers. It's impossible to playtest something when there's not at least a concept of the codex. It is known that things have changed (for better but more likely worse) between the playtested codices and the final products. But all the concepts being in place was what I meant with 'written'.

A different question about the coming preorders this Saturday. I'm interested in the fancy version of the Triumph of Saint Katherine. Are such versions only available from the Games Workshop website? And preorders come online at 11:00 AM correct? I've read posts here about similar releases that would sell out quickly, so I want to try and be as much on time as possible.

I can't find nor have the time to rewatch the video where they talk about it but I felt it was very clear they'd seen something for every faction, they even mentioned that codex creep shouldn't happen because from what they'd been working with it was all very well balanced and had all been done at once.

 kodos wrote:
and all the Codex would have been play tested together and a 2 week FAQ would not be needed as those questions would have been asked long before the book went to print

More games happen with a new Codex in the first week after release than in the entirety - and that's ignoring that things may have been changed or reworded since the playtesters last clapped their eyes on a draft.

Should some stuff have been caught before a 2 week FAQ? Probably. But I prefer 2 week FAQs being a thing than not being a thing, even if they trigger a bunch of posters to bleat about books being "worthless" and "outdated" when they happen.

Us3Less wrote:
Yes, a bit poor wording from my side. The playtesters at Tabletop Tactics mentioned they were part of the codex play testers. It's impossible to playtest something when there's not at least a concept of the codex. It is known that things have changed (for better but more likely worse) between the playtested codices and the final products. But all the concepts being in place was what I meant with 'written'.

A different question about the coming preorders this Saturday. I'm interested in the fancy version of the Triumph of Saint Katherine. Are such versions only available from the Games Workshop website? And preorders come online at 11:00 AM correct? I've read posts here about similar releases that would sell out quickly, so I want to try and be as much on time as possible.

11am CET, yes. Apparently people occasionally experience things going up a few minutes early, so you should start refreshing early as well just to be sure.

I believe it's also been mentioned that the homepage doesn't necessarily update and it's the page that shows the pre-orders you want to refresh.

Dudeface wrote:
I can't find nor have the time to rewatch the video where they talk about it but I felt it was very clear they'd seen something for every faction, they even mentioned that codex creep shouldn't happen because from what they'd been working with it was all very well balanced and had all been done at once.

Just to say:

For a reboot like 8th ed it is impossible to release indices for every army at the start of the edition and not have some form of rules for all armies at the start of the edition.

For an edition like 9th ed that is based on and compatible with the previous edition, it is impossible for the previous edition to have had rules for all armies and not have a form or rules for armies at the start of the edition.

I find it highly unlikely for GW to have finalized codices ready at the start of the edition. It goes against anything I've ever seen of how they work, and how the final product turns out. That doesn't mean playtesters couldn't have been given core army rules for all factions at the same time and gotten the idea from there that everything exists in pretty much finalized state and might even be balanced against each other.

We also know from the people testing the ork codex that they didn't know anything about the beast snagga releases, so there is that.

My take on the Tabletop Tactics video was that GW had a rough idea where they wanted to take unit/gun stats, and the 9th edition purity rule. The details however varied. Hence say Dark Lances being D3+3 which wasn't what they tested - but surely not really surprising given where MMs had gone.

I don't believe a finalised Tau Codex for instance has been sat on a shelf for 2 years waiting for its day of release. I can believe however (although I've not read anything about it) that people were playtesting with something similar to the new Montka/Kauyon rules.

And unless they are excelent actors the playtesters do not know the final products seeing how often TTT says "we don't know" regarding what's coming...And "they aren't allowed to say" isn't much excuse as they could then "sorry we can't say" would be better statement than "we don't know but are interested to find out ourselves" etc

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/20/four-of-the-biggest-points-changes-from-chapter-approved-2022/

GW are dumb as gak.

Like 10 points on the Exorcist and Immolator (and straight up ignoring the Castigator which is the worst of the 3) is gonna do anything. The exorcist is 40pts overpriced MINIMUM and the immolator needs a 10pt drop on it's weapons IN ADDITION to the 10pt chassis drop to even see fringe play.

Meanwhile on the otherside Vulkite Contemptors and NDKs only go up 10 points? So space marine lists go up maybe 20pts and GK lists 30.

Craftworlds obelisk?

LORE IMPLICATIONS

Points drops for vehicles, nice. And some big drops for some LoWs, here's hoping that carries over to fw.

Also, interesting to see that the Obelisk is an Eldar unit now.

Ah yes, the paying for balance patch has begun.
GW just could not resist to paywall the pts update.
Truly masterfully done.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Ah yes, the paying for balance patch has begun.
GW just could not resist to paywall the pts update.
Truly masterfully done.

Ever heard of battlescribe?

 Darkseid wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Ah yes, the paying for balance patch has begun.
GW just could not resist to paywall the pts update.
Truly masterfully done.

Ever heard of battlescribe?

Sure, and its usefull but not official.
Meanwhile other games wouldn't dare paywall a balance patch.

Aren't the points in the free version of the app also?

Still doesn't excuse if they don't give points out in a free pdf.

How does a Plagueburst go down 15 when the Exorcist only goes down 10?

Were they afraid someone might actually BUY an Exorcist?

Wait, so they nerfed the Beastboss but not the character version?