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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Since it's an open and shut case that GW only "balances" to sell specific units I figure it should be easy to determine what will be buffed/nerfed in the upcoming codexes.

So let's figure out what is presently good ( relative to their own internal codex ) for T'au, GSC, Custodes, and Eldar. Those models must obviously be made awful. Then everything else must obviously become OP!

What was good?

T'au - Riptides, Missile Broadsides, Drones?

GSC - ???

Custodes - Bike Captains, Trajann, Telemons

Eldar - ???

Let's fill in the blanks and put this all down on paper. Then we can really put the screws to GW's sales plan!

What are we thinking on Custodes? Year of the Landraider?
   
Made in nl
Been Around the Block




Eldar: nothing. Everything is shades of terrible.

In all seriousness, the units that are OK right now (or rather, the units that see play):

Farseer (foot and skyrunner)
Warlock (foot and skyrunner)
Wraithblades with axes
Striking Scorpions
Warp Spiders
Shining Spears
Hornets (FW)
Nightspinners
Dark Reapers
Wraithseers (FW)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/06 17:28:58


 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







 Daedalus81 wrote:
...What are we thinking on Custodes? Year of the Landraider?


Shields on infantry are going to go up massively in cost and spears are going to go down massively in cost. GW will attempt to buff the Land Raider with a price drop and change the guns to "twin-linked relic fancy super lascannons" with a huge damage buff, but because of the damage buffs they continue to throw onto everything else in the game it will remain too squishy for its cost for anyone to actually use it. The -1 to hit flag will be removed as an option and turned into a stratagem in an effort to make people take the other flags, but that will have the practical effect of just making sure Custodes have no CP to use on anything else ever. Two weeks after release the range of the stratagem will be FAQed down from 6" to 3" because GW's annoyed that their attempts to nerf the ability didn't actually result in anyone using it any less. Spear-boltguns will get double their current rate of fire and an ability that says "damage from this ability cannot be reduced" to continue their current trend of releasing rules that invalidate other rules and then more rules to invalidate those, which will lead to endless arguments about whether FNP rolls still work on them because of some quirk of the wording, which will be resolved six months later with a three-paragraph FAQ entry that makes it work against some FNP rolls but not others in a logically inconsistent fashion. Everyone will get one extra wound in an attempt to keep up with the damage creep, which won't actually make them any tougher against D2-spam but will make them more immune to D1 weapons. Someone in the dev team who really loves blast weapons will be very angry that Custodes' squad size is too small for them to be affected by the blast rule, so they'll get a special rule that they take maximum hits from blast weapons at all times because they're so large, which will foreshadow similar changes to Tyranid Warriors and Ogryn but won't carry over back to Centurions or Aggressors. The Sisters of Silence will be included in the book out of a sense of obligation but they won't be subject to any faction abilities and won't get any stratagems, and will remain unplayable. Some faction inside GW will insist on the FW units being included in the Codex but another faction will remain angry at having anything to do with resin, so they'll be obviously copy-pasted 8e rules with no changes at all and will still be affected by no stratagems (the "resin" keyword will be introduced to ensure this).

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Lebanon NH

God, I hope it's the year of the landraider! I got two of those bad boys and pretty much never get to run them...
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






shields are actually going down in points, but are getting nerfed so thats meh.

Wardens are getting buffed though. They are dropping 5pts per model and gaining bodyguard. This is pretty big on top of the addition with host traits and ka'tahs. Looks like they will finally be useable and almost spamable.

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Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Since it's an open and shut case that GW only "balances" to sell specific units


Its not though. This is the unsupported and unsubstantiated theory of Cynical Internet Smart Guys (CISGs for short) who are looking for overcomplicated explanations to rationalize behaviors that are actually pretty simple: GW and whatever practices they use aren't very good at achieving balance.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in gb
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord




chaos0xomega wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Since it's an open and shut case that GW only "balances" to sell specific units


Its not though. This is the unsupported and unsubstantiated theory of Cynical Internet Smart Guys (CISGs for short) who are looking for overcomplicated explanations to rationalize behaviors that are actually pretty simple: GW and whatever practices they use aren't very good at achieving balance.


I think the post is satirical.
   
Made in ca
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






I don't think you will see much change in custodes. Bikes will still be the go to, because half the custodes line is fw not GW.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Clearly Custodes will be maximum Sisters of Silence spam with the bare minimum of Golden-Boyz-Tax you can get away with, if this's the case.
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





It is hard to apply that logic to Custodes.
They are mostly FW only for now, and most of the dex relies on something that recent rumors (but also common sense) tells us that is going away: the 3++.

They are in for a redesign more than a unit by unit approach.

Nerf to Trajan though is a given.
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







chaos0xomega wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Since it's an open and shut case that GW only "balances" to sell specific units


Its not though. This is the unsupported and unsubstantiated theory of Cynical Internet Smart Guys (CISGs for short) who are looking for overcomplicated explanations to rationalize behaviors that are actually pretty simple: GW and whatever practices they use aren't very good at achieving balance.


Excuse me, our unsupported and unsubstantiated theory is that GW attempts to make balance changes to sell specific units and fails to achieve the results they're looking for because they don't really understand how their game works.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Eihnlazer wrote:
shields are actually going down in points, but are getting nerfed so thats meh.

Wardens are getting buffed though. They are dropping 5pts per model and gaining bodyguard. This is pretty big on top of the addition with host traits and ka'tahs. Looks like they will finally be useable and almost spamable.


I actually find the new storm shields are better for Custodes. 0+ save in cover and only save worse against AP4. But then most of my guns are AP2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dudeface wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Since it's an open and shut case that GW only "balances" to sell specific units


Its not though. This is the unsupported and unsubstantiated theory of Cynical Internet Smart Guys (CISGs for short) who are looking for overcomplicated explanations to rationalize behaviors that are actually pretty simple: GW and whatever practices they use aren't very good at achieving balance.


I think the post is satirical.


Where's the :sssh: emote?!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
leerm02 wrote:
God, I hope it's the year of the landraider! I got two of those bad boys and pretty much never get to run them...


I got a free 5++ on mine and I'm still really having a hard time bringing it out.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/06 20:54:42


 
   
Made in ch
Irked Necron Immortal




Switzerland

Skorpekh destroyers go up in points
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 AnomanderRake wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Since it's an open and shut case that GW only "balances" to sell specific units


Its not though. This is the unsupported and unsubstantiated theory of Cynical Internet Smart Guys (CISGs for short) who are looking for overcomplicated explanations to rationalize behaviors that are actually pretty simple: GW and whatever practices they use aren't very good at achieving balance.


Excuse me, our unsupported and unsubstantiated theory is that GW attempts to make balance changes to sell specific units and fails to achieve the results they're looking for because they don't really understand how their game works.


Unsupported and unsubstantiated theories that clearly contradict and defy all the available evidence are the best kind of unsupported and unsubstantiated theories.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Somewhere in Canada

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Clearly Custodes will be maximum Sisters of Silence spam with the bare minimum of Golden-Boyz-Tax you can get away with, if this's the case.


We already know there is no Golden-Boy tax on SoS now.

They have a troops choice, Aleya has been severed from Valerian and they've added a generic HQ.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Peering into the void.

GSC have generally been universally bad - so its sort of hard to call what will or won't be good. Plenty of Doomerism from certain quarters on the state of codex rumours.

To my mind it feels like they desperately don't want "the build" to be 150~ Acolytes with hand flamers, so that may well be overcosted (even after the nerfs earlier this year).

Crossfire suggests neophytes in trucks, bikers and ridgerunners. But equally it could be kind of fiddly to set up, which leads back to the above. Rumour mongers claim its good, but we wait and see.

Eldar are all over the place. If the logic holds up - GW shouldn't want to sell any more Shining Spears, Dark Reapers and flyers. They may however want to push Banshees. New Models are hard to call - because we all know GW makes them overpowered to sell straight away, or cunningly makes them a bit rubbish, only to buff them in 3~ years time when they decide they need that bit of grey plastic to go out the door.

But lets call it. New Avatar+Footdar horde 3rd edition style to be the new meta-setting hotness. Take your Wave Serpents and chuck them in the bin.

The obvious choice with Tau is to make the Riptide and LoW (for the lols). Then nerf Commanders to BS3 (Tau can't shoot straight, its fluffy). Savior Protocols can be the same, but it now only works on a 4+, because that seems fair.

At the same time, idk, Piranhas can be 25 points each fully loaded. So you better buy 15 of them. And everyone crying about the Hammerhead is going to get a shock when the Sky Ray is somehow the most overpowered unit in the codex.
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

Landraiders' rules are already out, they might get a price discount at most. And custodes don't need landraiders. It won't be the year of landraiders.

Units with 8th edition codexes might be completely re-written though and I expect eldar to be the new top tiers. Too much time has passed since they were and a game without powerful aeldari is not a proper 40k .

But someone can argue that drukhari have "over-throned" them so yeah, who knows? I'm expecting strong tau and crafworlds though. Custodes I think they'll be pretty much where they currently are. No idea about GSC, it's an army that I only faced a couple of times in 7th and never saw, in person or on a batrep on youtube (or read anything about it), after that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/07 11:40:00


 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





I could see Banshee's and Striking Scorps pushed as the new Eldar hotness, despite it really just being bumped up to the new Melee baseline of 9th, maybe with a few badly balanced Exarch buffs

Of Corsair will be Guardians plus 1 but if that strands of fate leak is right willl largely be fighting ynnari for shelf honors

And maybe a psyker buff as bike seers at 20 squid a pop (or 1 click bundle of 5 for 100) seems a strong wallet drain

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Oh good, its been 5 whole minutes since someone claimed GW makes rules to sell kits.

I once again present you with my go to counter. Please explain how GW makes rules to sell kits using the Tyranid Pyrovore.

GW's balancing is not based on malice. Its simple incompetence.
   
Made in us
Swift Swooping Hawk





Pssst Daedalus' post was satire
   
Made in fr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks





France

 AnomanderRake wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
...What are we thinking on Custodes? Year of the Landraider?


Shields on infantry are going to go up massively in cost and spears are going to go down massively in cost. GW will attempt to buff the Land Raider with a price drop and change the guns to "twin-linked relic fancy super lascannons" with a huge damage buff, but because of the damage buffs they continue to throw onto everything else in the game it will remain too squishy for its cost for anyone to actually use it. The -1 to hit flag will be removed as an option and turned into a stratagem in an effort to make people take the other flags, but that will have the practical effect of just making sure Custodes have no CP to use on anything else ever. Two weeks after release the range of the stratagem will be FAQed down from 6" to 3" because GW's annoyed that their attempts to nerf the ability didn't actually result in anyone using it any less. Spear-boltguns will get double their current rate of fire and an ability that says "damage from this ability cannot be reduced" to continue their current trend of releasing rules that invalidate other rules and then more rules to invalidate those, which will lead to endless arguments about whether FNP rolls still work on them because of some quirk of the wording, which will be resolved six months later with a three-paragraph FAQ entry that makes it work against some FNP rolls but not others in a logically inconsistent fashion. Everyone will get one extra wound in an attempt to keep up with the damage creep, which won't actually make them any tougher against D2-spam but will make them more immune to D1 weapons. Someone in the dev team who really loves blast weapons will be very angry that Custodes' squad size is too small for them to be affected by the blast rule, so they'll get a special rule that they take maximum hits from blast weapons at all times because they're so large, which will foreshadow similar changes to Tyranid Warriors and Ogryn but won't carry over back to Centurions or Aggressors. The Sisters of Silence will be included in the book out of a sense of obligation but they won't be subject to any faction abilities and won't get any stratagems, and will remain unplayable. Some faction inside GW will insist on the FW units being included in the Codex but another faction will remain angry at having anything to do with resin, so they'll be obviously copy-pasted 8e rules with no changes at all and will still be affected by no stratagems (the "resin" keyword will be introduced to ensure this).

This sounds so much like what actually happens
Can't wait to see it becoming true

   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




Where was it said Custodes don't get a SoS tax? Everyone I've talked to said it's going to be directly tied to Guardian squads, ala other armies.

Also, they nerfed bikes into oblivion, so that's out. They took away our shoot twice ability, and our fight twice. They made half our abilities into single use stratagems, and we lost our +1 to all saves according to the leaker. Our new HQ choice is dog doo doo, and our "stances" are laughably worthless. I'd rather just stay with our 8th rules.
   
Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






D-cannons are coming back baby! Checking their current rules they are actually really cool, I used to really love them in 5th.

When Fire Prisms use the Linked Fire Stratagem they will be able to ignore invulnerable saves, for reasons. This will make them strong again.

If you want an actual prediction then Warwalkers are going to be stupidly OP.
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Where was it said Custodes don't get a SoS tax? Everyone I've talked to said it's going to be directly tied to Guardian squads, ala other armies.

Also, they nerfed bikes into oblivion, so that's out. They took away our shoot twice ability, and our fight twice. They made half our abilities into single use stratagems, and we lost our +1 to all saves according to the leaker. Our new HQ choice is dog doo doo, and our "stances" are laughably worthless. I'd rather just stay with our 8th rules.


Taking away shooting/fighting twice is a 9th edition thing, a good one IMHO, not specifically a nerf to custodes. I'm sure they'll compensate somehow.

 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Taking away the ability to deal more damage with stratagems is a common theme across all codices, you tend to pay a premium for such stratagems.

They failed to do it properly for some codices, but we are talking about GW here, so that should be no surprise to anyone.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
 
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